Book Dealers-eBay sellers-dt.org buyers/sellers/ to Avoid like the Corona Virus

[Merlin1958]

I'm still a bit confused even after several postings. Bear with me, maybe I am slow and I don't want to be (or sound) judgemental, but this is how the sequence of events from, Kris' posting seem to go.

1. Kris has back n forth regarding the book. Mike wants more than $6k, but will not settle for less.
2. Kris, is at $5750, but Mike holds at a bottom line of $6K. For some reason, Kris' wife comes into play.
3. Mike, states, Kris has 48 hrs to comply with $6k figure (His bottom figure).
4. During the 48hr period, after learning that Kris has been mandated by his wife not to exceed $5750 Mike, gets an offer for $7500
5. Kris, wakes up and decides to defy his wife and go for the $6k
6. Mike, informs Kris that he received an offer of $7500 (which he has every reason to believe is out of reach for Kris) and accepts it.
7. Kris, is understandably disappointed and posts here within a few days of his frustration.
8. Mike sells his book for $7500, and gets ready to sail into retirement or whatever.

I don't see what is wrong here. Maybe I'm obtuse, but if it were I, sure I'd be very disappointed and my ass would probably hurt, but I certainly couldn't blame, Mike for accepting the best offer. Especially, since there was no way I was going to match it. If I'm wrong here, please enlighten me. Shit happens. I won't even comment on the allegation that he "lied". To me that is just sour grapes. Kris, there will be other opportunities. No need to disrespect someone you claim to respect IMHO.


Kris, I understand your frustration and I feel your pain, being so close to a treasured item. There will be others and I am sure you will prevail in the end. Good luck!!!

[AstroDad]

I'm still a bit confused even after several postings. Bear with me, maybe I am slow and I don't want to be (or sound) judgemental, but this is how the sequence of events from, Kris' posting seem to go.

1. Kris has back n forth regarding the book. Mike wants more than $6k, but will not settle for less.
2. Kris, is at $5750, but Mike holds at a bottom line of $6K. For some reason, Kris' wife comes into play.
3. Mike, states, Kris has 48 hrs to comply with $6k figure (His bottom figure).
4. During the 48hr period, after learning that Kris has been mandated by his wife not to exceed $5750 Mike, gets an offer for $7500
5. Kris, wakes up and decides to defy his wife and go for the $6k
6. Mike, informs Kris that he received an offer of $7500 (which he has every reason to believe is out of reach for Kris) and accepts it.
7. Kris, is understandably disappointed and posts here within a few days of his frustration.
8. Mike sells his book for $7500, and gets ready to sail into retirement or whatever.

I don't see what is wrong here. Maybe I'm obtuse, but if it were I, sure I'd be very disappointed and my ass would probably hurt, but I certainly couldn't blame, Mike for accepting the best offer. Especially, since there was no way I was going to match it. If I'm wrong here, please enlighten me. Shit happens. I won't even comment on the allegation that he "lied". To me that is just sour grapes. Kris, there will be other opportunities. No need to disrespect someone you claim to respect IMHO.

Unless I am misunderstanding, the crux of the issue is that Webstar was given 48 hours to agree to the 6k. The implication of giving someone a time period to agree is "if you do x within this time frame I will do y". I think it is reasonable if he was told he had 48 hours to decide that it meant he was holding the book until that time expired, after which he would entertain other offers. Otherwise, what is the point of the deadline at all?

That said, $1500 is a lot of money. Maybe not as much to some people, but I can see being torn between taking that bird in hand while it was there rather than waiting out the 48 hours and risking not selling it at all. There are a lot of variables here we just don't know and as RF pointed out we are only seeing one side of things. At the end of the day, at the very least there was poor communication on the sellers part. I think everyone (well maybe not everyone) would respect them standing up and saying "yep, I screwed up and should have said "barring a deal considerably more"or something, but $1,500 is a lot of money to me and I didn't expect that offer to come along. I understand why he is mad and I likely would be too, but I cant afford to pass up $1500 and will be sure to be more clear in the future".

I think we can all understand webstar's frustration, especially when he was so close to acquiring something that is held so highly in our community, but as a neutral third party I can see both sides and overall I think it was just unfortunate and probably not handled as well as it could have been.

[Merlin1958]

I'm still a bit confused even after several postings. Bear with me, maybe I am slow and I don't want to be (or sound) judgemental, but this is how the sequence of events from, Kris' posting seem to go.

1. Kris has back n forth regarding the book. Mike wants more than $6k, but will not settle for less.
2. Kris, is at $5750, but Mike holds at a bottom line of $6K. For some reason, Kris' wife comes into play.
3. Mike, states, Kris has 48 hrs to comply with $6k figure (His bottom figure).
4. During the 48hr period, after learning that Kris has been mandated by his wife not to exceed $5750 Mike, gets an offer for $7500
5. Kris, wakes up and decides to defy his wife and go for the $6k
6. Mike, informs Kris that he received an offer of $7500 (which he has every reason to believe is out of reach for Kris) and accepts it.
7. Kris, is understandably disappointed and posts here within a few days of his frustration.
8. Mike sells his book for $7500, and gets ready to sail into retirement or whatever.

I don't see what is wrong here. Maybe I'm obtuse, but if it were I, sure I'd be very disappointed and my ass would probably hurt, but I certainly couldn't blame, Mike for accepting the best offer. Especially, since there was no way I was going to match it. If I'm wrong here, please enlighten me. Shit happens. I won't even comment on the allegation that he "lied". To me that is just sour grapes. Kris, there will be other opportunities. No need to disrespect someone you claim to respect IMHO.

Unless I am misunderstanding, the crux of the issue is that Webstar was given 48 hours to agree to the 6k. The implication of giving someone a time period to agree is "if you do x within this time frame I will do y". I think it is reasonable if he was told he had 48 hours to decide that it meant he was holding the book until that time expired, after which he would entertain other offers. Otherwise, what is the point of the deadline at all?

That said, $1500 is a lot of money. Maybe not as much to some people, but I can see being torn between taking that bird in hand while it was there rather than waiting out the 48 hours and risking not selling it at all. There are a lot of variables here we just don't know and as RF pointed out we are only seeing one side of things. At the end of the day, at the very least there was poor communication on the sellers part. I think everyone (well maybe not everyone) would respect them standing up and saying "yep, I screwed up and should have said "barring a deal considerably more"or something, but $1,500 is a lot of money to me and I didn't expect that offer to come along. I understand why he is mad and I likely would be too, but I cant afford to pass up $1500 and will be sure to be more clear in the future".

I think we can all understand webstar's frustration, especially when he was so close to acquiring something that is held so highly in our community, but as a neutral third party I can see both sides and overall I think it was just unfortunate and probably not handled as well as it could have been.

Hey, I get that. Seems to me though that the point that is being missed is that, Mike (from what I can gather) came down to the bottom price of $6k. That to me signify's that he was selling it for more and was forced to settle, but an offer came in more in line with the price he wanted. I fully agree that the situation kinda sucked for all parties (except maybe for the buyer) and I fully acknowledge, Webstar's frustration, but I fail to see why he should be besmirched in his reputation like this is all. Yeah, maybe communication could have been better, but he did nothing "wrong" as is implied. Sometimes, folks can get very biased as to wrong and right around here depending on the outcome it seems to me, but then WTF do I know, right?

I'm sure you will get your book in the future at some time, Kris. Hang in there.

[Merlin1958]

What concerns me more than anything else is how quickly and without clear foul people can get their reputation ruined these days on the boards. Does, Kris have a beef? maybe/sort of. Should he post it in the "Sellers to be avoid like the plague" thread? No, I think that is overkill. Reputations are hard to earn and easy to trash. We should exercise more caution in this regard, IMHO. But hey, I'm "Merlin"!!! LOL LOL

[AstroDad]

Hey, I get that. Seems to me though that the point that is being missed is that, Mike (from what I can gather) came down to the bottom price of $6k. That to me signify's that he was selling it for more and was forced to settle, but an offer came in more in line with the price he wanted. I fully agree that the situation kinda sucked for all parties (except maybe for the buyer) and I fully acknowledge, Webstar's frustration, but I fail to see why he should be besmirched in his reputation like this is all. Yeah, maybe communication could have been better, but he did nothing "wrong" as is implied. Sometimes, folks can get very biased as to wrong and right around here depending on the outcome it seems to me, but then WTF do I know, right?

I'm sure you will get your book in the future at some time, Kris. Hang in there.

I agree that calling him out like this was probably more than was needed given the situation.

Just out of curiosity, would it make a difference if what Kris thought was implied was actually spoken? For instance if it went like this:

• Kris: I can do $5750
• Seller: I can't go below $6000
• Kris: Man, I really want to, but my wife is really holding me to not spending more than $5750
• Seller: I get it, tell you what. I really can't go less than $6000, but I will hold it for 48 hours in case you can convince her to let you go a little higher, but after that I have to consider other offers."

Then the next day, Kris came back and said "good news! she said I could do the 6k!" and the seller said "oh, yeah, I sold it ten minutes later for $7500"

Does that change anything? My feeling is that Kris feels like this is pretty much what happened, it was just that a lot of this was implied and not outright said.

[Merlin1958]

Hey, I get that. Seems to me though that the point that is being missed is that, Mike (from what I can gather) came down to the bottom price of $6k. That to me signify's that he was selling it for more and was forced to settle, but an offer came in more in line with the price he wanted. I fully agree that the situation kinda sucked for all parties (except maybe for the buyer) and I fully acknowledge, Webstar's frustration, but I fail to see why he should be besmirched in his reputation like this is all. Yeah, maybe communication could have been better, but he did nothing "wrong" as is implied. Sometimes, folks can get very biased as to wrong and right around here depending on the outcome it seems to me, but then WTF do I know, right?

I'm sure you will get your book in the future at some time, Kris. Hang in there.

I agree that calling him out like this was probably more than was needed given the situation.

Just out of curiosity, would it make a difference if what Kris thought was implied was actually spoken? For instance if it went like this:

• Kris: I can do $5750
• Seller: I can't go below $6000
• Kris: Man, I really want to, but my wife is really holding me to not spending more than $5750
• Seller: I get it, tell you what. I really can't go less than $6000, but I will hold it for 48 hours in case you can convince her to let you go a little higher, but after that I have to consider other offers."

Then the next day, Kris came back and said "good news! she said I could do the 6k!" and the seller said "oh, yeah, I sold it ten minutes later for $7500"

Does that change anything? My feeling is that Kris feels like this is pretty much what happened, it was just that a lot of this was implied and not outright said.

See the thing to me not being discussed is that, Mike apparently was selling the book for more than $6k to begin with. Kris, negotiated it down in price (am I wrong?). So, obstensivley he was looking for $7500 all along and, Kris was chasing a "deal". No? As I have said, I feel for the guy and understand his frustration and anger, but Mike is not a dealer to be avoided like the plague IMHO. Maybe more discussion should have occurred, but his "Rep" should not have been called into question IMHO.

[Randall Flagg]

Without hearing from Pasiuk, we are receiving one persons version of events. Until or unless we hear from Pasiuk, we will never know the other side.
It's disturbing and disappointing to hear that two respected members had such "confusion"?, misunderstanding on a deal like this.

I'd suggest that unless Mike (Pasiuk), provides his version of events, we just leave what's said as said, and move along.

The moral of the story is...(there is no moral, this isn't Aesop's fables)....clear timelines and exclusivity for offers.

[Merlin1958]

Can we see the "emails" back n forth that support this claim?

[Randall Flagg]

Can we see the "emails" back n forth that support this claim?

I don't think this is the right time for that. PM infers private message, and I understand that anything sent textually nowadays isn't private, but I'm not sure what is to be gained.

Kris has described the problem he had with Pasiuk. If someone going forward on a purchase with Pasiuk wishes to continue, then they have heard one side, and can make their own educated decision whether or not to do business with him.

[Merlin1958]

Can we see the "emails" back n forth that support this claim?

I don't think this is the right time for that. PM infers private message, and I understand that anything sent textually nowadays isn't private, but I'm not sure what is to be gained.

Kris has described the problem he had with Pasiuk. If someone going forward on a purchase with Pasiuk wishes to continue, then they have heard one side, and can make their own educated decision whether or not to do business with him.

Oh, but its "Okay" to trash a long time members reputation on spec and one side of an issue? Why does, Mike need to respond in this case? I may be obtuse, but I just don't see it. Maybe it is, Kris that needs a "Chill pill" and an education on "reputations" and how difficult they are to manufacture and maintain? Just curious.

[Room 217 Caretaker]

If I offer a book for sale for $1500, but a member asks for a discount to $1000 and I counteroffer back at $1200 (because I can't go as low as the member is asking) and tell the member she or he has 48 hours to think it over. I'm going to respect the 48 hour window. If someone came along and offered more during the 48 period, I would just politely tell the other offer they are second in line and I will be in touch if the first deal falls through.

The extra money I could make by breaking the deal would only last a while, but what I just did to a member here would last forever. Personally, I will take life long friendship over the additional cash.

Mulleins

[webstar1000]

If I offer a book for sale for $1500, but a member asks for a discount to $1000 and I counteroffer back at $1200 (because I can't go as low as the member is asking) and tell the member she or he has 48 hours to think it over. I'm going to respect the 48 hour window. If someone came along and offered more during the 48 period, I would just politely tell the other offer they are second in line and I will be in touch if the first deal falls through.

The extra money I could make by breaking the deal would only last a while, but what I just did to a member here would last forever. Personally, I will take life long friendship over the additional cash.

Mulleins

Thank you Ralph.... for saying exactly my feelings and thought. You nailed it brother. Thank you.


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[HONKYTONKSMASH]

If I offer a book for sale for $1500, but a member asks for a discount to $1000 and I counteroffer back at $1200 (because I can't go as low as the member is asking) and tell the member she or he has 48 hours to think it over. I'm going to respect the 48 hour window. If someone came along and offered more during the 48 period, I would just politely tell the other offer they are second in line and I will be in touch if the first deal falls through.

The extra money I could make by breaking the deal would only last a while, but what I just did to a member here would last forever. Personally, I will take life long friendship over the additional cash.

Mulleins

Perfectly stated


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[Shannon]

I having a beef with Bill! I don't know what it is yet, but I'll think of something ...

[Merlin1958]

If I offer a book for sale for $1500, but a member asks for a discount to $1000 and I counteroffer back at $1200 (because I can't go as low as the member is asking) and tell the member she or he has 48 hours to think it over. I'm going to respect the 48 hour window. If someone came along and offered more during the 48 period, I would just politely tell the other offer they are second in line and I will be in touch if the first deal falls through.

The extra money I could make by breaking the deal would only last a while, but what I just did to a member here would last forever. Personally, I will take life long friendship over the additional cash.

Mulleins

If I offer a book for sale for $1500, but a member asks for a discount to $1000 and I counteroffer back at $1200 (because I can't go as low as the member is asking) and tell the member she or he has 48 hours to think it over. I'm going to respect the 48 hour window. If someone came along and offered more during the 48 period, I would just politely tell the other offer they are second in line and I will be in touch if the first deal falls through.

The extra money I could make by breaking the deal would only last a while, but what I just did to a member here would last forever. Personally, I will take life long friendship over the additional cash.

Mulleins

Thank you Ralph.... for saying exactly my feelings and thought. You nailed it brother. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If I offer a book for sale for $1500, but a member asks for a discount to $1000 and I counteroffer back at $1200 (because I can't go as low as the member is asking) and tell the member she or he has 48 hours to think it over. I'm going to respect the 48 hour window. If someone came along and offered more during the 48 period, I would just politely tell the other offer they are second in line and I will be in touch if the first deal falls through.

The extra money I could make by breaking the deal would only last a while, but what I just did to a member here would last forever. Personally, I will take life long friendship over the additional cash.

Mulleins

Perfectly stated


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Fair enough and I applaud your ethics, but my main beef is that the whole thing is and was being discussed in the "Buyers to be avoided" thread. At the most, a "miscommunication" occurred. Mike was not a scam artist, not did he try to screw anyone out of their funds. He's a trusted member who "maybe" made a mistake. To call him out here is irresponsible IMHO. Is all I am saying. We have all had "mis-steps" in our business transactions. We work them out, right? We don't tell folks to "avoid them like the plague" as a result. Do we? Seems to me at least that this kind of thing is happening more and more and should be regulated to some degree is all.

FWIW, this is not the first time, Kris has brought this kind of thing up, FWIW. It's becoming a pattern IMHO.


W/E I'm out. You guys do what you wish. Let it go on record that I have never disappointed a buyer or a seller. What I do is anonymous and generally without gain, despite my being seen as a "clown".

[T-Dogz_AK47]

I think Mike should chime in at this point, to offer his version of events and to explain the circumstances surrounding the '48 hour window' to purchase the book for $6,000.

I'm not going to make an opinion regarding this, when I do not possess the full facts and only have one side of the story.

I will say however, that it is in Mike's best interest to offer his side of events. To remain silent on the matter will not resolve things.

[firemonkey66]

I don't think anybody should be discouraging any buyer (or seller, if the tables were turned) within this community from saying what they need to say if they feel they've been wronged in a transaction. That's one of the points of this place, right? The only deals that we shouldn't hear about are the ones that go right. Accountability to the community is one of the things that engenders trust amongst us.

And your reputation isn't a static thing, it's only as good as the last deal you make.

As far as this specific situation goes, I hear what Kris is saying and I feel for him. It hurts real bad to think you have something locked, only to find out that it's already gone. But I would also like to hear the other side of the story. Perhaps Pasiuk had a different understanding of what that 48 hour window meant for the deal. For example, current ebay rules. If I make an offer on ebay for an OBO item and the seller counteroffers, I have 48 hours to accept or decline that offer, but it doesn't reserve the item for me. Someone else can 'buy it now' or make a better offer for more that the seller can accept. To paraphrase what RF said earlier, it's all in the fine print.

[AstroDad]

we have both the reputation feature and the iTrader feedback for those type of things. I don't think the rest of us should be serving as jury for disputes and i don't think the other party should be made to feel they have to come defend themselves when they feel they did nothing wrong and the cost of everyone believing the person who felt the need to say something.

[surly]

we have both the reputation feature and the iTrader feedback for those type of things. I don't think the rest of us should be serving as jury for disputes and i don't think the other party should be made to feel they have to come defend themselves when they feel they did nothing wrong and the cost of everyone believing the person who felt the need to say something.

Yep. An enthusiastic +1

[firemonkey66]

we have both the reputation feature and the iTrader feedback for those type of things. I don't think the rest of us should be serving as jury for disputes and i don't think the other party should be made to feel they have to come defend themselves when they feel they did nothing wrong and the cost of everyone believing the person who felt the need to say something.

How would the reputation feature help a buyer in a situation like this? Kris could leave Pasiuk negative rep on one of his posts and that would help in what way? It would be visible on his main page until he received a few more reps that scrolled it out of view.

I agree the itrader feature is useful in this situation, but I still think deals made in some way through or in connection to this site are fair game for disclosure to the general community.

[Cook]

I think Mike should chime in at this point, to offer his version of events and to explain the circumstances surrounding the '48 hour window' to purchase the book for $6,000.

I'm not going to make an opinion regarding this, when I do not possess the full facts and only have one side of the story.

I will say however, that it is in Mike's best interest to offer his side of events. To remain silent on the matter will not resolve things.

Why should Mike chime in?
Facts are facts, he chose not to sell the book to Webster1000 (seems obvious to me)
Why is not our business, WTF folks.... give it a rest.
Why does everyone think Mike needs to chime in? What for?
This is a internet site possibly viewed by the entire world (you're welcome Jerome, compliment intended)
For some reason I really can't understand, some people (other than webstar1000) feel entitled, or some explanation is due to them from Mike to explain shit that frankly is "non of our business".

[webstar1000]

I think Mike should chime in at this point, to offer his version of events and to explain the circumstances surrounding the '48 hour window' to purchase the book for $6,000.

I'm not going to make an opinion regarding this, when I do not possess the full facts and only have one side of the story.

I will say however, that it is in Mike's best interest to offer his side of events. To remain silent on the matter will not resolve things.

Why should Mike chime in?
Facts are facts, he chose not to sell the book to Webster1000 (seems obvious to me)
Why is not our business, WTF folks.... give it a rest.
Why does everyone think Mike needs to chime in? What for?
This is a internet site possibly viewed by the entire world (you're welcome Jerome, compliment intended)
For some reason I really can't understand, some people (other than webstar1000) feel entitled, or some explanation is due to them from Mike to explain shit that frankly is "non of our business".

What do you mean why should he chime in? BECAUSE... have you read the name of the thread??? He made a deal. And fucked me on said deal. That's that. Glad you would do business with someone like that. I want everyone here to know to be careful dealing with him. Sorry but if you make a deal... stick by the deal. Period. This thread is about sellers to avoid. If you don't want to know what ones to avoid.... don't come here.


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[T-Dogz_AK47]

I think Mike should chime in at this point, to offer his version of events and to explain the circumstances surrounding the '48 hour window' to purchase the book for $6,000.

I'm not going to make an opinion regarding this, when I do not possess the full facts and only have one side of the story.

I will say however, that it is in Mike's best interest to offer his side of events. To remain silent on the matter will not resolve things.

Why should Mike chime in?

Why should Mike chime in? Let's see now.... Possibly because an accusation has been made against him publically on this thread (book dealers buyers/sellers to avoid like the plague), and it would be in his own best interest to defend himself before people start jumping to conclusions. Oh wait, that has already started....

Facts are facts, he chose not to sell the book to Webster1000 (seems obvious to me)

Facts are not facts, we only have one side of the argument here and according to the accusation levied against him, Pasiuk didn't just choose not to sell the book to Webstar - he chose to renege on an agreement to allow him 48 hours to purchase the book for $6,000.

Why is not our business, WTF folks.... give it a rest.
Why does everyone think Mike needs to chime in? What for?
This is a internet site possibly viewed by the entire world (you're welcome Jerome, compliment intended)
For some reason I really can't understand, some people (other than webstar1000) feel entitled, or some explanation is due to them from Mike to explain shit that frankly is "non of our business".

Like it or not, this issue became TDT.org business the moment Webstar publically made an accusation on this thread. A lot of people buy and sell on these boards, and are no doubt intrigued as to whether this accusation holds water, and in turn, whether Pasiuk57 can be trusted as a seller.

Do I feel "entitled" to an explanation? No and to be honest, I don't actually give a fuck one way or the other if he does or not - but a man's reputation is all he has on these boards. If I decided to sell my collection on these boards and someone made a false accusation about me as a seller, I would be posting on this thread like a motherfucker to defend my reputation.

However, Pasiuk57 has chosen to remain silent on this issue for more than two days now. If Webstar's accusation has no merit, why hasn't he posted here to refute it? After all, his reputation is at stake....

[Alec]

Apparently from a number of the posts "Sellers/Buyers to Avoid Like the Plague" should be renamed, as quite a few posts indicate that people are not bothered that they should be avoided.
I have dealt with Kris and he is a straight person to be engaged with.
I have not dealt with Mike Pasiuk and would be interested to know if I would feel the same.
Surely this scenario is why this thread exists.

[Br!an]

I've dealt with Mike, and he was more than fair. He was generous.