"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
your face
it wouldn't make a difference, but we could get everyone to vote on it and express their opinions.
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
I can add a poll. Which poll?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
A little healthy competition never hurt anybody...
not win exactly, but we could see where the majority of votes goes.
Besides, I'm me, therefore I already won.
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
No, they're not - but I made the comparison to show repeated use of a writing tool - rather than comparing the characters themselves
He might not care what we think about the outcome or the actions of a character, but that doesn't negate the fact that he has a thought process behind it - and how are you to know anymore than I, what that process is?
Stories may "write themselves", but he obviously takes the time to insert many references and names and pop culture etc, so its not a totally organic process.
Darkers, I understand your point. However, somedays I think he just views books as money. Like, "My wife needs a new car, guess I'll put out a new book." And doesn't even worry about the quality anymore. The guy has lost the hunger.
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
ThisYou said he makes a special point of killing off his villains in a way that makes them look pathetic or feeble -For me its not a matter of King spending a lot of time worrying about "giving an popular or powerful villain a big exit" but just what comes to him as he is writing.
He's said over and over in various publications and interviews that he doesn't have a conscious writing style but one that flows from his under-mind.and I'm saying that he does not write with any idea of making some special moral point behind the way the villains get taken out. Same with the case of the cross dog.Originally Posted by Darkthoughts
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
I see where you are going with your theory lisa, and it's workable for sure. perhaps what king is saying is that what's most needed to overcome evil is to stand in the first place. the universe will provide whatever help may be necessary as needed [like the cross dog or the turtle figurine]. i don't know that this applies to mordred & flagg though as both were evil soSpoiler:
I made the Flagg and Mordred point because its one thats so debated.Spoiler:
The cross dog may not be such a good example, but I see it as definately similar. A neutral force taking down the "baddie", denied her confrontation with the hero, an unsatisfying (on her part) death.
******SPOILER"S ABOUND************
and can I get a mod to spoiler the thread as a whole? PLease?
Murder and a Meal. Is that the Number #3 Combo? Can I get fries with that?
The way I see it is there is always a "Big Bad" of a book, (sorry, I love Buffy and use the terminology alot) and is usually taken out hardcore. I mean, RF in The Stand was taken out with a fucken A-bomb. Barlow was taken out in a fitting manner. Even, Walter was taken out in a fitting manner, although it didn't build up to it enough. But to be killed by a minor character...it's undignified for a Big Bad of the story.
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
Like I said, you can have your opinions about whether Flagg's death was a worthy one or whichever villain you choose in King's universe, my point is not arguing about that but about King making a point with how his villains get killed when he has said over and over that he writes what comes to him. So to me he's not sitting there saying to himself "This is a villain so she should go out with a whimper, not a bang".
Unless you've read some interview where he has said different of course.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
The cross dog killed the main villain because thats what came to King when he was writing it, not making some moral point about bad guys. Thats how I see it. Personally I loved how it played out because it was a shocker..like I said.."Damn! Didn't see that one coming!"
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
similar for sure. there is a pattern, whether it is intentional or not on king's part we could all debate and never really know for sure.
Spoiler:
my point is, i think the other examples like the cross dog or the loser's club is that sometimes if king has a "message" at all it's that when it comes time to stand, stand. even if it doesn't work, there's honor in it.
i get your point now allhail.
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
I'm only marking my DT7 spoilers, otherwise its a given that the thread will have spoilers for the relevant story.
There is never a need to apologise for being a Buffy fanThe way I see it is there is always a "Big Bad" of a book, (sorry, I love Buffy and use the terminology alot)
CK - I like what you're saying, but I will agree to disagree
The way you are regarding my opinion (about the way SK might be thinking/channelling his thoughts while writing) isn't entirely the way I'm meaning to express it...but I can't think how to rephrase it, so I'll leave it at that.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
o, ok
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."
Well, I think I can agree King isn't consciously out to make any kind of a point with regards to his villains. I think all his characters are if anything intended to mimic real life (despite fantastic circumstances). Sometimes evil dies a stupid senseless death. Sometimes good people do. There is no rhyme or reason, no causal reaction to circumstances. Sometimes there is no why. Death comes to us allSpoiler:with or without causality. There is no reason for a reason.
I can get my head round that no problem, I agree with CK making that same point - what I'm disagreeing with is King's writing being completely unplanned. He can be getting ideas from nowhere as his story unfurls, but thats not to say he then doesn't brainstorm with these ideas. Infact, in most of his storys he foreshadows, which itself denies that his stories are unplanned throughout.
I think he knew exactly what he was going to do with the cross dog from the moment he wrote it.
Or else why write in such an insignificant detail as his coloring, right?
What I hate is when he says something like "and that's the last time he saw her alive" at the end of a chapter, when he could have surprised you with someone's death.
"So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."