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Thread: SK was "in the right place at the right time; would not work in today's market"

  1. #1
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    Default SK was "in the right place at the right time; would not work in today's market"

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ge=true&cat=38

    When Stephen King emerged as a best selling author in the 1970's and 1980's, there was a boom in the publishing industry. Just about any novel with commercial value had a shot at being on the best seller list. This was also a turning point in the industry where novels went from being a literary pursuit to being a large outlet for commercial fiction. Stephen King was an example of an author who was in the right place at the right time, in addition to being a very good writer.

    Along with this boom in commercial fiction came all these imprints and divisions in each genre at the big New York publishers. This included horror, the genre Stephen King excelled in and helped make famous. He knew the subject matter of horror very well, reading the works of H.P. Lovecraft since he was a child. Yet also knew how to make it his novels outside the genre and appeal to the mainstream, inspired by the realistic settings in the works of Richard Matheson, someone he read since adolescence. He followed a similar and became a bestseller.

    The point of view in Stephen King's book were in third person omniscient. A godlike point of view exploring the viewpoints of different characters in the novel. He either a whole canvas of characters to work from, or a dual battle between two main characters in each novel. Yet such things would not work in today's publishing market. He would now have to write his novels in third person limited, a more investigative or explorative point of view from the eyes of the main character. A very different approach from the one Stephen King learned in his prime over twenty five years earlier.

    Also, horror novels are no longer in demand. While horror movies remain a big draw at the box office, horror novels have dropped off the radar to the point where no large publishers in New York have any horror imprints. Outside of Stephen King, horror novels have been relegated to bargain bin and online releases by small presses. Both he and Dean Koontz are among the few horror authors who remain on the fiction best seller list. Everyone else at the top now is writing a fantasy series or suspense thrillers, the latter genre also involves Koontz.

    The era of fiction where just about everyone can be a best seller is also long gone. That sort of market dried up by 1990, and publishers took a more career oriented approach with their authors. In the 1990's, many authors were often limited to one genre with three books in that genre to prove they were a success, and the next two to cement their careers before any attempts at another genre. This more recent method of focusing on building careers has also changed, and most authors in the 2000's were lucky to even have one full length novel out in bookstores.

    The truth is, many of Stephen King's horror classics would not work in today's market. There is no longer is a place for horror in commercial fiction. Such novels these days would most likely end up in a bargain bin after being released by small press publishers. If released today, King's most famous novels would more than likely be classified as suspense thrillers or fantasy to succeed on The New York Times Bestseller List.

    The low key suspense thrillers he wrote under the pen name Richard Bachman would have found a huge audience. King, if he were a recent bestseller to debut in the last decade, would be competing with the more recent bestsellers releasing suspense thrillers. Along with the more established suspense thriller author such as Tom Clancy and John Grisham. Yet the public would know him as Richard Bachman at this point, and not as Stephen King.

    His Dark Tower series still would have sold very well, since fantasy has became a hot selling genre in the last decade. The Dark Towers would have blown Stephanie Meyer and her Twilight series out of the water. While also serving as stiff competition for J.K. Rowling and her Harry Potter novels. Who would not pass up the chance to see a head to head battle on the bestseller list between the feud between Roland Deschain and Randall Flagg or the confrontation between Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort?

    Either way, Stephen King still could have been successful as a bestseller if he was a more recent novelist. There is no doubt he would have had to struggle a bit more and limit himself to fewer genres, much less limit himself to one genre. This would also mean limiting himself to releasing fewer novels, since the publishing industry has seen a sharp decline in the last decade or so. Along with fact this is a more commercial marketplace than the literary one Stephen King helped revolutionize and innovate. In this era, he would not be the game changer he was, he would just be another bestseller.

    However, this does not mean he would not have written horror, it just would not have been as successful. The Richard Bachman and Dark Tower novels would have made him successful on the bestseller list. Horror novels in this era would have been more or less passion novels that he wants to do. In his prime, horror novels were what sold while novels like those under the pen name Richard Bachman and The Dark Tower series were those he wanted to do. In this era, it would have been the other way around.

  2. #2
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    Even if every word of the above was true, it wouldn't in any way subtract from the fact that Mr.King is one of the greatest writers ever, whichever the genre or era, whatever the market conditions, whether or not people around him can read at all.

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    Absolutely true, there is no place in the current market for Stephen King's early works. That's why every bookstore has his titles packed in like pickles, most of the titles in multiple.

    That is the most dumbassed remark that writer could have made. King DEFINED the current horror market and continues to be a driving force in the book world today. His work has grown beyond his horror origins, and he will be known a hundred years from now as one of those boring classics authors that high school students have to read in 11th grade literature.

    Well, let's hope so.
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    Okay, it is my well thought out opinion that this writer is a dumbass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Okay, it is my well thought out opinion that this writer is a dumbass.
    Yep
    this bugs me:

    The Dark Towers would have blown Stephanie Meyer and her Twilight series out of the water. While also serving as stiff competition for J.K. Rowling and her Harry Potter novels

    DT7 came out in 2004 and DT4.5 is gonna be in 2010 or 2011
    That makes the dark tower stories current enough for me to say not that they WOULD but that they DO TOTALLY ANNIHILATE both twilight and Harry potter
    if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do

  6. #6
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    I'm gonna' have to ask that you please not put Harry Potter and that other book in the same sentence anymore. Thank you!
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  7. #7
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    I wouldn't dismiss his comments completely. There was an element of "right place right time." From The Stephen King Illustrated Companion: Dave King later heard his brother say that if Carrie had come six months earlier or six months later he might have missed out on the perfect timing presented by the popularity of The Exorcist, and he would still be teaching English.

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    But isn't this true for almost any successful author? If he (or she) isn't in the right place at the right time, they won't be as successful. Of course, there are exceptions, but I really believe that the exceptions are few and far between. The successful author usually manages to strike a chord in his readership that may not have existed in another place or time.

    John

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    I totally agree. Being a great writer has a lot to do with talent but I believe even Stephen King would tell you that not only was he in the right place at the right time, he had the brains and skill to take advantage of it.
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    Like in any job, being in the right place at the right time immensely helps a good writer. I think that most of the article is true. Maybe in the US you've got a horror market that still sells well but I don't think this is true overseas. For example, you can't find a "horror corner" in a regular bookshop here. Horror is a despised genre and doesn't sell well (believe me, I used to work in an English bookshop and horror almost didn't sell at all!)
    I also agree with the writer when he says King's books would have to be labelled "suspense thrillers" to sell as well as they did back in the 70s and the 80s.
    What's more, the DT series doesn't sell half as well as the HP series, even though I never understood why.
    I have to disagree with the majority again by saying this writer is not a dumbass and he very well knows what he's talking about.

  11. #11
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    reading the above post, i dis-agreed with almost everything that was written and would like to say that rather than 'being in the right place at the right time' King actually instigated all of the above.

    the turning point in publishing history when commercial fiction stood a chance at gaining the best seller list? hmmm maybe because King was damned good and a lot of people wanted to read his books, and he therefore ended up on the best seller list, not because some desk jock says times they are a changing.

    or maybe that suddenly according to the above, Horror became popular. what it got popular when a good author starting writing horror? quell surprise!!


    any author, artist, singer etc changes with the times and writes/sings for that markets audience. ok, so carrie and christine are dated, but only because they were written in a different era. If he was to write these now, aimed at todays market, i bet next months pay packet they would fly out

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    Apparently, Shakespeare, too, got in the right place... the drama market was dying for lengthy chronicles and tragedies written in a revolutionary style... all other revolutionaries and trend-setters (Byron, Dickens, Poe, Molière, J.S.Bach, Bob Dylan, you name it) didn't really do anything to create the conditions, they only used them... in a word, totally agree with candy, Sam, and especially Brice (see post #4 of this thread)

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stone, rose, unfound door View Post
    Like in any job, being in the right place at the right time immensely helps a good writer. I think that most of the article is true. Maybe in the US you've got a horror market that still sells well but I don't think this is true overseas. For example, you can't find a "horror corner" in a regular bookshop here. Horror is a despised genre and doesn't sell well (believe me, I used to work in an English bookshop and horror almost didn't sell at all!)
    I also agree with the writer when he says King's books would have to be labelled "suspense thrillers" to sell as well as they did back in the 70s and the 80s.
    What's more, the DT series doesn't sell half as well as the HP series, even though I never understood why.

    Undoubtably because the HP series ( and dare I say Twilight) is written for a much younger audience and as they mature. HP is geared more to the 12-20+ crowd I believe whereas DT is more 17/18+ no?

    I have to disagree with the majority again by saying this writer is not a dumbass and he very well knows what he's talking about.
    [I] would have to agree with you and Matt. I think its undeniable that "readership" in general is way down due to the internet and other media. Heck, look what the Newspapers are going through. I also wanted to point out that I think its great that SK seems to be utilizing his literary muscles to help increase the marketplace for up and coming writers through his foray's into Serialized novels, Kindle and web based releases to name a few. I refuse to believe that he keeps expanding his writing horizons on these fronts solely for the bucks. If that were the case he could certainly just keep cranking out novels (like UTD) and make his money. I mean he's an established Icon. No, I think he does this innovative stuff not only for the fun but, to help his guild, if you will, as well. Just one humble opinion anyway.


    On a side note: I don't believe the writer was impugning King's talent in any way by the "Right time" phrase. He wasn't a great writer and innovatator he would never have had the staying power for a 30+ year career. No doubt he capitalized on the Exorcist popularity . But hey, it was also probably the right timing for Shakespeare (In fact they teach that it was), Charles Dickens and Jules Verne, as well. Not bad company!!!!
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    Okay, flaggwalkstheline. Had I knew about the randomness of you spoiler I would have not inhaled deeply on a cigarette while clicking the button. Now I can understand how some people can die from laughter.

    As for DT blowing Harry Potter and Twilight out of the water, I can dig that. Instead of making a million obvious points why I'll settle for three.

    1. Harry Potters sorcery is just accepting the lies Catholics were spreading about Pagans in the days of conforming rome to the man Jesus. DT's sorcery is epic and mind splitting.

    2. Instead of originality Twilight used the tired format of Sexy teenage vampires and the climax of said stories result over something so trival and petty that I cannot even understand how it is even popular with people my age (i.e. my wife). The vampires in DT, even though inspired through more traditional venues have large amount of originalty and the story has them rivaled by a Gunslinger, a hilarious short tempered ex junkie, a crippled woman who still thinks the junkie is wrong about Reagan being president, a psychic child, a bumbler and a priest who used to be a drunk. AWESOME!

    3. There are so many elements to the myth of DT that they even seem to rival the works of tolkien. Even with all the books and essays fans have written about DT no one has even come close to understanding the whole series. And I do not think that will even be possible until Sai King puts the last word on the ending page.

    I think the DT series will be read for years or even centuries to come. It is almost the ebodiment of story telling through ages. So who ever wrote that article is a more on. It's not about the right timing. The Dark Tower is timeless.

  15. #15
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    I agree with Brice too,

    IMO the words posted in that notice shout out that it's author doesn't seem very bright at all, and all the good timing in the world wouldn't make it so.

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    Did I miss something or do all of you consider the guy who wrote the article to be a moron based on the fact that he said King was in the right place at the right time? He never said King was a bad writer. In fact he said the contrary : "in addition to being a very good writer"!
    He has some good points as far as I can see what's going on here and what kind of books sell well.
    Merlin 1958 : The HP series and Twilight sell well among adults 20+ as well and I started reading the DT series when I was 13 so I don't think there really is an age factor here. That's why I said I don't understand why the DT series doesn't sell better than it does. Here, I've met only 3 people who have partly read it and no one bought it when I worked (for an entire year!) at WHSmith!
    I guess the situation is a lot different in the US than in France then since I see most of you think the author of the article is completely wrong. I'd like you all to tell me exactly why you think he is a moron. You can like someone's books and be critical at the same time.
    Being in the right place at the right time doesn't mean King has no talent, it just means he benefited from the circonstances and a bigger audience discovered how talented he was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malice View Post
    Okay, flaggwalkstheline. Had I knew about the randomness of you spoiler I would have not inhaled deeply on a cigarette while clicking the button. Now I can understand how some people can die from laughter.

    As for DT blowing Harry Potter and Twilight out of the water, I can dig that. Instead of making a million obvious points why I'll settle for three.

    1. Harry Potters sorcery is just accepting the lies Catholics were spreading about Pagans in the days of conforming rome to the man Jesus. DT's sorcery is epic and mind splitting.

    2. Instead of originality Twilight used the tired format of Sexy teenage vampires and the climax of said stories result over something so trival and petty that I cannot even understand how it is even popular with people my age (i.e. my wife). The vampires in DT, even though inspired through more traditional venues have large amount of originalty and the story has them rivaled by a Gunslinger, a hilarious short tempered ex junkie, a crippled woman who still thinks the junkie is wrong about Reagan being president, a psychic child, a bumbler and a priest who used to be a drunk. AWESOME!

    3. There are so many elements to the myth of DT that they even seem to rival the works of tolkien. Even with all the books and essays fans have written about DT no one has even come close to understanding the whole series. And I do not think that will even be possible until Sai King puts the last word on the ending page.

    I think the DT series will be read for years or even centuries to come. It is almost the ebodiment of story telling through ages. So who ever wrote that article is a more on. It's not about the right timing. The Dark Tower is timeless.
    its like what sam elliot says at the begining of the big lebowski "sometimes theres a man..."

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stone, rose, unfound door View Post
    ...He has some good points as far as I can see what's going on here and what kind of books sell well. ...
    Noticing points which are true is not the same as making worthwhile points through meaningful interpretation. To be fair, good writing isn't easy. If this is professional, though...
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    Okay, it is my well thought out opinion that this writer is a dumbass.

  19. #19
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    Here's my thoughts. Regarding the Twilight and Harry Potter series, had the DT series been released with the same rapidity as those two series It would have outdone the Twilight series I think. Not Harry Potter though. Harry Potter struck a chord with readers from ages 10-60. Such a large group of people, added with the rabidity of the younger core group of readers, and you have a mix that the DT series could never hope to match. DT is too slow and too adult to hold as much appeal to a 10 year old child as the more appropriately (as in the language used not the themes) written HP.

    However, the DT series doesn't outsell anything now because it's old. The Gunslinger is more than 30 years old. Many children who are about 5 will not read Harry Potter for more than a decade because it's not the hot stuff being pushed by booksellers and publishers. Something will catch their attention, but I doubt it will be with the same fervor that HP garnered.

    Here's what I took the writer of the article to be saying. King is a very talented writer, but if he were to be a beginning writer now, his work would languish because horror doesn't sell now. But the writer doesn't take into account that horror didn't sell very well then either. King revolutionized the horror genre, and got typecast into the role of a horror writer so completely that every book he writes goes into the horror section when it is printed in paperback, even The Colorado Kid.

    I don't believe it was a case of right place, right time (thought that helped a lot) as much as it was great writing. Carrie is not a horror novel as much as it is a coming of age novel about a girl who was tormented by her classmates. It just happened that her coming of age included a telekinetic ability that allowed her to get revenge on those who had been so cruel to her. His next two novels Salem's Lot and The Shining are what put King into the Horror genre. Prior to those books horror was pretty well dead as a genre. This is not to say there weren't some good books published that were horror novels, The Exorcist being one, but is to say that books published into the horror genre did poorly as a group... until Stephen King that is. It was his good writing that revitalized the genre and sewed the seeds for many pretenders to the throne.

    I think that if King were to start publishing today, his books would have the same results because good writing is good writing regardless of the time it's read, and King is a GREAT writer.
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    when people deride SK's writing I like to remind em that dickens was considered a lightweight in his day
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    I never said he wasn't good and I think there's a lot in what Sam said. Yet, I discovered a few weeks ago that the entire "horror" section at WHSmith (in Paris) had disappeared and I couldn't find any books by King anymore, apart from Under the Dome. Perhaps if he was writing his first book now, it wouldn't get the reception it did back in 1977. This is of course linked to the fact that people read less and that publishers don't want to take risks when publishing something new and targeting teens is usually a good idea, bookselling-wise. I'm not sure it is such a good idea quality-wise... I don't think Twilight is a well-written or interesting book, for example.
    Most writers were considered lightweight in their day because they were unconventional most of the time and most people don't want to be given something new because then they'd have to put effort in reading and a lot of people consider reading as entertainment and entertainment shouldn't be too complicated. I don't agree with them but that's only my opinion. Lightweight in their time often became classics, but more often than not, they were completely forgotten by the public.
    As I said once again, maybe I'm completely wrong about the American market but that's the situation here.

  22. #22
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    The fact that Twilight is popular is proof that the masses should not be able to decide for themselves what to read.

    And I ALSO agree with Brice.
    Sloth Love Chunk

  23. #23
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by stone, rose, unfound door View Post
    I'd like you all to tell me exactly why you think he is a moron.
    Because it's one of the two: either his article doesn't make any sense being only a re-chewing of the most tautological of commonplaces (namely, that if nobody buys an author's book, this author won't be successful), or he is accusing King of owing his success to circumstance. In either case, not very bright.

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  24. #24
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    I feel like King's writing of the time defined what was popular. i.e. Horror was popular because there happened to be a fantastic author writing horror. Not the other way around. Moreover, horror has fallen out of favor, and coincidentally, King has not written a novel that I would call strictly "horror" in nearly a decade. (with the exception of Cell) I think it is a classic example of "the chicken or the egg theory"
    Sloth Love Chunk

  25. #25
    From Sorrow to Hope Sam is on a distinguished road Sam's Avatar

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    Well said BC. That's what I was saying too. If he were to start writing today, I think his books would be just as successful as they were in the 70's. They would be made into movies faster though. Carrie was released in April 1974 and the film was released in November 1976. That's more than two years and these days, that film would hit the theaters in about a year after the book was released.

    I DO believe the early films helped to make King a houshold name, but he was a bestselling author before that ever happened.
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