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Thread: Doctor Sleep : The Shining 2

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Vincent View Post
    That's pretty much it other than his introduction.
    Thanks. What story does he mention at the very beginning? It sort of sounds like a text from "People, Place & Things", whose title i forgot... no?
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    It's a bit like "I've Got to Get Away," but who knows? Very likely something that no longer exists -- and you have to take into account he's talking about something that happened over 50 years ago.

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    I'm planning to reread The Shining and then dig into Dr. Sleep... I just wish I had more time to read!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stkmw02 View Post
    I'm planning to reread The Shining and then dig into Dr. Sleep... I just wish I had more time to read!
    We all do. Less work, more spare time...
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    I've only managed once to complete the DOCTOR SLEEP interactive experience...and I forgot to put the sound on. I tried several times, ever since, but it seems t o get stuck at the "Where it all started".
    Am the only one with this issue?
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  6. #531
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    It worked fine for me once I used Chrome as the browser.

  7. #532
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    Having finished this one and posted my comments on the spoiler thread below, I have to say that although I enjoy all SK's novels and was interested in how Danny turned out that this book was a disappointment. It has the feel of something that was rushed despite the delays and incomplete and relied on a very predictable and lazy plot. That doesn't mean that I hated it. Just simply that it is not very good. I thought 11.22.63 was a better book by a factor of about 10. I always thought a sequel to Salem's Lot would be a no brainer, but now I hope King avoids any more sequels. It's difficult to measure up to expectations as he suggests and even diminishes the prior books with efforts like Doctor Sleep. The fact that it is selling well is no indication as to the book's merit. The Shining is one of King's most well known books largely due to the Kubrick movie which King abuses at every opportunity. I would expect it to sell in large numbers for that reason alone.

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardX View Post
    Having finished this one and posted my comments on the spoiler thread below, I have to say that although I enjoy all SK's novels and was interested in how Danny turned out that this book was a disappointment. It has the feel of something that was rushed despite the delays and incomplete and relied on a very predictable and lazy plot. That doesn't mean that I hated it. Just simply that it is not very good. I thought 11.22.63 was a better book by a factor of about 10. I always thought a sequel to Salem's Lot would be a no brainer, but now I hope King avoids any more sequels. It's difficult to measure up to expectations as he suggests and even diminishes the prior books with efforts like Doctor Sleep. The fact that it is selling well is no indication as to the book's merit. The Shining is one of King's most well known books largely due to the Kubrick movie which King abuses at every opportunity. I would expect it to sell in large numbers for that reason alone.
    Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but IMHO it was a great book. We had a chance to re-connect with old and familiar characters and meet new and interesting ones. Also, the un-expected "ties" to the original were great and while the "True Knot" may not have been as formidable to some I thought it worked well in the story. I felt like I was settling in with familiar characters and witnessing their adjustment to new ones. While dealing with a very valid and dangerous new "threat". King's recent novels have been "spot on" and this one is no exception. IMHO However, to each his own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardX View Post
    The Shining is one of King's most well known books largely due to the Kubrick movie which King abuses at every opportunity. I would expect it to sell in large numbers for that reason alone.
    I don't think it's "largely" to Kubrick's credit. King's books sell extremely well at this point even if they're not tied to films.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberGhostface View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardX View Post
    The Shining is one of King's most well known books largely due to the Kubrick movie which King abuses at every opportunity. I would expect it to sell in large numbers for that reason alone.
    I don't think it's "largely" to Kubrick's credit. King's books sell extremely well at this point even if they're not tied to films.
    That's certainly true now decades after the film was released, but I don't think there is any doubt that the Kubrick film helped King's career early on when he was just another horror writer. Love it or hate it the Kubrick movie is an iconic film. It's consistently listed among the top horror films. I think King felt a bit jealous of the critical acclaim that Kubrick received at that point in his career. Horror writers rarely, if ever, had received their due. Likes and dislikes of books and movies, though, are subjective. Everyone has their own opinion. Mine is that the current book was somewhat predictable and disappointing, but it's still entertaining.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardX View Post
    I don't think there is any doubt that the Kubrick film helped King's career early on when he was just another horror writer.
    If King owes his success to any film, it was likely Carrie. But even before that his books were successful enough that he was able to make writing a full time career.

    I think King felt a bit jealous of the critical acclaim that Kubrick received at that point in his career.
    IIRC The Shining didn't do that well critically when it first came out and King didn't like it then. I think he just had just problems with it story-wise.
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    Personally, I think Kubrick is over rated. Just MHO and admittedly I appear to be in the minority. However, considering the timing of the film and King' status at the time, you have a point there. While I do not particularly care for the film, although Nicholson as "Jack" was spot on, it is a Pop Icon.
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    I agree with you, Bill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ari_Racing View Post
    I agree with you, Bill.
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    I actually really didnt like Kubricks The Shining. To this day I cant see why its so popular.
    "We make up horrors to help us cope with the real ones."




  16. #541
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    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...king-isnt.html
    One summer, when I was nine or ten, I inherited a few thousand science-fiction and horror paperbacks from a friend of my mother’s. Over the next few months, in our damp and cobwebby basement, I raced through this library of slim, yellowing paperbacks from the fifties, sixties, and seventies, half of them with sexy space girls on their covers. There were mentalist sci-fi novels like “Dune” and “The Stars My Destination”; horror books with titles like “Night Thirst” and “The Howling”; genre-mixing novels about robot detectives, space cowboys, and galactic emperors. Some of these novels were bad, and others were great, but it didn’t matter—the main thing was that they were all defiantly and originally weird. It was the most mind-bending summer ever.

    I thought of that experience last week while reading “Doctor Sleep,” Stephen King’s new sequel to “The Shining.” King’s new novel might have come straight out of that basement library. “The Shining” is introspective, austere, and unsettlingly plausible, which is why it comes to mind whenever you visit a creepy hotel, play croquet, or see an angry dad with his kid. But “Doctor Sleep,” which feels less like a sequel and more like a spinoff, is unapologetically fun, free-wheeling, and bizarre. It’s about a wandering band of psychic vampires who stalk clairvoyant children, kill them, and then inhale their “steam,” or psychic energy, for food. A grownup Dan Torrance—the little boy from “The Shining”—must help a young girl fight off these vampires, who have sensed her psychic abilities from afar and have chosen her as their meal of the week. In place of its predecessor’s unsettling familial violence, “Doctor Sleep” has thrilling gunfights, absurd satanic rituals, and wildly entertaining telepathic showdowns. In a chatty author’s note, King more or less admits that he didn’t try to make “Doctor Sleep” as terrifying as “The Shining”: “Nothing can live up to the memory of a good scare,” he writes, “especially if administered to one who is young and impressionable.” Instead, he says, he set out to tell “a kick-ass story.” He succeeded.

    “Doctor Sleep” underscores an interesting fact about King: he’s not really, or not exclusively, a horror writer. If there were a Stephen King Plot Generator somewhere out there on the Web, it would work, most of the time, by mashing up ideas from all of what used to be called speculative fiction—including sci-fi, horror, fantasy, historical (and alternate-history) fiction, superhero comic books, post-apocalyptic tales, and so on—before dropping the results into small-town Maine. Often, too, some elements of the Western, or of Elmore Leonard-esque crime fiction, are mixed in. “Horror,” in short, is far too narrow a term for what King does. It might be more accurate to see him as the main channel through which the entire mid-century genre universe flows into the present.

    Take “The Gunslinger,” from 1982, which is one of King’s best novels. It’s about a mysterious cowboy hero who pursues a “man in black” across a desert reminiscent of New Mexico or Utah. The novel weaves together knights, cowboys, demons, succubi, post-apocalyptic nuclear mutants, psychic tarot readers, and a Robert Browning poem; eventually, you realize that it’s all taking place in a sci-fi parallel universe. “The Langoliers,” from 1990, covers similar ground. It’s about a group of airline passengers who fly through a time rift, into the past. The twist is that the past isn’t the usual rewound version of the present; instead, it’s a dead, deserted world that exists for only a short while before it’s eaten up by terrifying monsters. The passengers—one of them is a girl with psychic powers; another has degenerated into a homicidal maniac—must find a way home before they are devoured. “The Langoliers” is classic King: a science-fiction premise (time travel) is complicated by horror-movie twists (monsters and a homicidal maniac) before some unrelated paranormal element (the girl with psychic powers) steps in to save the day. The novel is so engrossing that it never occurs to you that all of its elements are from disparate and perhaps incompatible genre traditions. King’s storytelling helps hide the joints. But a bigger factor is that King sees where different genre ideas have a common origin. Time travel, for example, has a natural relationship to psychic precognition: in the first case, you travel to the future, while, in the second, the future travels to you. Once King has pointed this out in a story like “The Langoliers,” you wonder why there aren’t more stories about time-travelling psychics.

    King is still America’s dominant horror writer, but, for a while now, his wide-ranging, exploratory sensibility has felt at odds with the rest of the serious-horror landscape. Lately, our horror stories have tended, like our cable news shows, toward a despairing and nihilistic pseudo-realism. (Zombie movies, like “28 Weeks Later” and “World War Z,” have helped to set the tone.) King’s novels, meanwhile, have remained cheerfully preposterous. Perhaps for that reason, his ideas have found themselves at home on television, where serial storytelling gives their outlandishness room to breathe. “Under the Dome,” a new series on CBS, is based on King’s novel about—you guessed it—a small Maine town trapped beneath a giant dome. “Haven,” which is in its fourth season on SyFy, is based on “The Colorado Kid,” a King novella; the show is so steeped in King lore that its official Web site has a section devoted entirely to tracking its Stephen King references. “Lost” explored strikingly King-like territory, in a manner that will remind any King fan of “The Langoliers”; similarly, the criminally underappreciated “Fringe”—my pick for the best science-fiction show of the past decade—suggests what a King story might look like if it were untethered from some of his usual touchstones (addiction, mental illness, New England) and given a mad-science spin. J. J. Abrams, who helped create both “Lost” and “Fringe,” has turned out to be an influential fan. He’s optioned “The Gunslinger,” and his production company, Bad Robot, is reportedly in talks to develop “11/22/63,” King’s strangely moving novel about a man who travels back in time to kill Lee Harvey Oswald. These shows are finding new ways to express one of the central ideas in King’s fiction: that the universe is more mysterious, freaky, and bad-ass than we know.

    King’s success as a genre fantasist is obvious and undeniable—it’s absolutely central to who he is as a writer. And yet critics and writers, in embracing King, have often done so by ignoring his otherworldliness and lauding his realism. Margaret Atwood, for example, writing about “Doctor Sleep” in the Times Book Review, argued that, “down below the horror trappings,” the book was “about families,” and especially about the family as a place where two kinds of anger, “righteous” and “destructive,” express themselves. In 2003, when the National Book Foundation awarded King a Medal for Distinguished Contribution to American Letters—the year before, the winner had been Philip Roth —the writer Walter Mosley, in introducing King, praised “his almost instinctual understanding of the fears that form the psyche of Americag’s working class. He knows fear,” Mosley said, “and not the fear of demonic forces alone but also of loneliness and poverty, of hunger and the unknown.”

    All of this is true. King has an extraordinary eye for the details of life on the edge, and his characters try, in believable ways, to resist the false empowerments of violence and anger. In “Doctor Sleep,” Dan Torrance is a recovering alcoholic who struggles with the aftereffects of an abusive—and haunted—childhood. (King himself has dealt with drinking and drug abuse.) As a grown man, Dan finds that his anger, which is often self-destructive, is hard to control. Anyone who reads King discovers that his novels contain many moments of expressive seriousness in which the attractions and consequences of anger and violence are weighed. Early in “The Shining,” for instance, Jack Torrance, Dan’s father, finds himself thinking back to a day when, as children, he and his brother discovered a wasps’ nest in a back-yard tree. Their father, a tempesutous drinker who works long hours as a nurse, rakes together a pile of leaves and starts a smoky fire beneath the nest, then sits on the porch with a six-pack and waits. A few hours later, he knocks the nest to the ground:

    The boys fled for the safety of the porch, but Daddy only stood over the nest, swaying and blinking down at it. Jacky crept back to see. A few wasps were crawling sluggishly over the paper terrain of their property, but they were not trying to fly. From the inside of the nest, the black and alien place, came a never-to-be-forgotten sound: a low, somnolent buzz, like the sound of high tension wires.

    “Why don’t they try to sting you, Daddy?” he had asked.

    “The smoke makes em drunk, Jacky. Go get my gascan.”

    Jack’s father sets the nest on fire, creating a “white-orange explosion, almost soundless in its ferocity”; the boys stand around it, horrified, and listen to “the sound of wasp bodies popping like corn.” King is an expert teller of these sorts of slightly scary tales that resonate across time. Jack’s whole life seems summed up in the story of the wasps’ nest. Like his dad, Jack is attracted, perhaps fatally, to power and danger. Like the wasps, he’s docile only when drunk, and, like his childhood self, he’s both fascinated and repelled by violence, which, he sees, is both woven into nature and destructive of it. (It’s also, in the Atwoodian sense, a story about families and the anger that can burn inside them.) Scenes like this are in every King novel. In “Doctor Sleep,” many of them take place in the hospice where Dan Torrance works as an aide, sitting with and giving comfort to the dying; “Doctor Sleep” is what his patients call him.

    These are great scenes, and critics have noticed them. King himself seems to have internalized their view of his virtues: in his National Book Foundation acceptance speech, he suggested that you can judge a novelist by how honestly he tells “the truth inside the lie” of his fiction. By that standard, King is a pretty good novelist. He tells a reasonable quantity of truth.

    Still: I wonder if King’s own standard is really the best one. I’m all for the truth, of course, but lies are pretty great, too. King, I suspect, is undervaluing his own very particular gifts. His novels do offer a kind of authenticity, but what’s most special about them is what’s least plausible. Next week, a new film version of “Carrie” will come to the big screen, directed by Kimberly Peirce, whose début film was “Boys Don’t Cry.” “Carrie,” the novel, is good because it’s a well-observed story about adolescent cruelty and rage. But it’s great because it imagines a freaky, unhinged, and extraordinary situation. Adolescence isn’t all that King writes well; he also describes, in thrilling, convincing detail, what it would be like to have telekinetic powers, and to use them to take revenge on the people who have wronged you. This kind of “truth inside the lie” is different from what Mosley and Atwood celebrate. “Carrie” succeeds because it feels accurate about things that are unreal.

    Readers and critics of novels have long prized observation over imagination. That’s not surprising, because observation is respectable, useful, intellectual, and verifiable. Imagination, meanwhile, can seem, and often is, arbitrary, childish, and even tasteless. But if I had to say which side of King I value most, the unflinching observer or the visionary fantasist, I’d have to choose the latter. There are lots of writers who tell it like it is, but only a few who, with such commitment and intensity, tell it like it isn’t. King takes the weird and gives it weight. And yet, at the same time, his novels retain a lightness, a playfulness. They show us horrible things, but they also glow, I think, with King’s joy—with his pleasure and exhilaration in imagining.

  17. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirFolio16 View Post
    I actually really didnt like Kubricks The Shining. To this day I cant see why its so popular.
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    Though, Nicholson as "Jack" was a slam dunk. I remeber finishing the book and saying to myself "Jack Nicholson would be perfect for Jack Torrance"!!! Of course, after that choice the production went straight downhill, IMHO "Wendy" was an awful choice and "Danny" weird and uninspired. I very much prefer the casting for SK's TV version, with the exception of Nicholson, though the "Wings" guy was very good.
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  19. #544
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    For my part I reread twice the shining, and I want to connect at all details of Dr Sleep when you read it.

  20. #545
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    See Robin Furth on Bloomberg TV discussing Doctor Sleep: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/terro...pPhfAbz0Q.html

  21. #546
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    I have a playlist for every novel I write. The music serves the book. Hope you enjoy these tunes — some are on the grizzly side. I would have included "Freebird," but you know it's a very long song. – Stephen King

    King sent his playlist for Doctor Sleep to Powell's bookstore.

  22. #547
    Owner Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg is loved more than Jesus Randall Flagg's Avatar

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    "Fuck I Stepped in Shit" is a riot.

  23. #548
    Oz the Gweat and Tewwible mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae's Avatar

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    I'm finally about to start Doctor Sleep. Just quickly leafing through the first few pages, I'm not seeing the excerpt that King originally read for Doctor Sleep. Did it not make it?

  24. #549
    Word Slinger Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent has a brilliant future Bev Vincent's Avatar

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    The Lockbox was one, the other about the True Knot (Tribe) comes later.

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    "I'm working on my sense of humor" Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an seldom gets put on hold Br!an's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bev Vincent View Post
    See Robin Furth on Bloomberg TV discussing Doctor Sleep: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/terro...pPhfAbz0Q.html
    That was good. Thanks Bev.

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