Book Dealers-eBay sellers-dt.org buyers/sellers/ to Avoid like the Corona Virus

[Randall Flagg]

Temporarily removed....

Temporarily removed....

What? Who? Where? LOL

The person said they would pay by "charging it". If they don't pay by tomorrow at 4:00 PM PDT I will disclose the info.

[Merlin1958]

Temporarily removed....

Temporarily removed....

What? Who? Where? LOL

The person said they would pay by "charging it". If they don't pay by tomorrow at 4:00 PM PDT I will disclose the info.

Very fair minded, RF!!

[Randall Flagg]

Post # 2 has been updated.

[Ben Staad]

I have a guess!

[jhanic]

That's unconscionable. Who was it?

John

[tippy4]

So not only is the person a deadbeat, he can't spell either.

Your an asshole.

It should have read......

You're an asshole

As far as who it is...Jerome has left enough bread crumbs in his post to determine that...and no, it is not The Langoleer.

And wow! that is a hell of a good price for a S/L Desperation (I presume that was the book being discussed).


UGHHHH I had a similar situation happen to me this weekend.....only worse. Buyer sent me money for a SOD2 SL. I packed it up...spent at least 30 minutes of my time emailing and packing. A hour before I was going to the PO to ship it he asks for a refund. I understand shit happens, but it is frustrating. If it were me doing it, I would have at least offered $10 to compensate me for my time as a gesture.

[Merlin1958]

Hey RF? Just when did your asshole first begin to speak?

[Fsmdr]

So not only is the person a deadbeat, he can't spell either.

Your an asshole.

It should have read......

You're an asshole

As far as who it is...Jerome has left enough bread crumbs in his post to determine that...and no, it is not The Langoleer.

And wow! that is a hell of a good price for a S/L Desperation (I presume that was the book being discussed).


UGHHHH I had a similar situation happen to me this weekend.....only worse. Buyer sent me money for a SOD2 SL. I packed it up...spent at least 30 minutes of my time emailing and packing. A hour before I was going to the PO to ship it he asks for a refund. I understand shit happens, but it is frustrating. If it were me doing it, I would have at least offered $10 to compensate me for my time as a gesture.

Wow!. That's just NOT cool, Tippy. I've had dead beat buyers before, some from this forum. but to agree on a transaction, pay, THEN backs out and get a refund..... Unless it was an unforseeable emergency from that person, I would certainly refuse to deal with that buyer in the future.

[Rahfa]

I dunno....a couple emails back and forth isn't really a commitment....plus, he did say he might buy the books in a month.

In fact, he didn't really confirm the purchase 100 percent - what he said was "Sounds good. Would you mind if I pay by Friday?" Which means a firm arrangement had not been reached - it was a question, not a decision. Now obviously, it's leaning toward firm, but it's not there yet.

As far as I can tell, the next time he emailed was to say he'd changed his mind, so the deal was never totally finalized.

Anyway....I think people here need to relax a little bit. It's not Ebay...it's fans just trying to buy and sell a few books.

I wouldn't deal with somebody who did that to me, don't get me wrong, but is it that big a deal? But - cancelling and backing out AFTER payment has been made is aggravating - I agree with Tippy, I'd offer $10 or something for the annoyance.

[Shannon]

"Sent as a Paypal gift?"

lol, stealin' my line?

[George at C-Springs]

Hey Jerome I have an opportunity to buy a Grant S/L of TWTTKH now that I can't pass up. I'm going to have to pass on buying ********** for now. I can probably pay for it in about a month after my bank account has a chance to recover

I dunno....a couple emails back and forth isn't really a commitment....plus, he did say he might buy the books in a month.

In fact, he didn't really confirm the purchase 100 percent - what he said was "Sounds good. Would you mind if I pay by Friday?" Which means a firm arrangement had not been reached - it was a question, not a decision. Now obviously, it's leaning toward firm, but it's not there yet.

As far as I can tell, the next time he emailed was to say he'd changed his mind, so the deal was never totally finalized.

Anyway....I think people here need to relax a little bit. It's not Ebay...it's fans just trying to buy and sell a few books.

I wouldn't deal with somebody who did that to me, don't get me wrong, but is it that big a deal? But - cancelling and backing out AFTER payment has been made is aggravating - I agree with Tippy, I'd offer $10 or something for the annoyance.

As unpopular as this may be .... RF, I think you over-reacted a bit since your potential buyer hadn't made payment yet. If he had backed out and cancelled on an already-made payment then, yes, absolutely justified. But, judging solely by the e-mail exchange, I'd say he changed his mind because he found something he liked better. So what? What's wrong with that? It's his money, his choice ... I agree with Rahfa that I don't see where he had an iron-clad, contract-signed obligation to make the purchase. In fact, it sounds to me like he wanted to make sure that you wouldn't be offended by his choice, and ensuring that you understood he'd still like to do it next paycheck. A future sale is still a sale!

If you found a car you really liked at a good price from someone on Craigs List, agreed to buy it, and then found the car of your dreams before you actually made the purchase, would you buy the first car out of some sense of obligation? Hell no you wouldn't, you'd tell the guy sorry, I've changed my mind! Until money has actually changed hands or a contract signed, a buyer has every right to change his mind and not make a purchase! Now granted, if it's someone here on the boards, and they've expressly made a promise to buy (handshake deal), and you've gone out of your way to accommodate them (like in Tippy's situation) ... that does need to count for something. If that buyer did that multiple times, then his reputation would be duly noted. But a one-off change of mind, with notice given before purchase, and a (hopefully) sincere interest in making same purchase at a future date? I just don't see it as a major problem.

I had a similiar situation while I was still in Germany last year (may have been the year before) with David, where I expressed interest in purchasing several titles. That was around the time that he had family issues (I think ... I know he wasn't at the store for a time), and since the Betts website is still 90's vintage I couldn't make the purchases on the spot. That was actually lucky for me, because by the time David came back my money situation had drastically changed and I could no longer afford to buy what I'd expressed interest in buying. If he was mad at me, he certainly didn't say so ... and in fact I used the opportunity to suggest upgrading of the website. Had I been able to see photos and purchase on the spot, I would have ... it would have really sucked for me a week or so later, but he would have made the sales, and that's what business is all about.

Had I, or John, or Tippy, or Bill, or Bob done the same with you, expressed interest but then changed our mind because something better came along, would we have received the same scathing response, with a threat to be outed? If so, I don't know that I would have resorted to name-calling (if I had, I would have run spell-check, that's for sure ... no mercy here!) ... but rather I would hope that we could have just worked it out as colleagues.

Remember Bill's tirade a few weeks ago with Michael? No offense, but your's had the same flavor for me ... your reaction just struck as a little over the top, a little unjustified. If there's more background between you and your buyer than what you've shown (which may very well be the case .... I personally have no idea who it is), then okay, maybe it's a personal thing with past experiences and this was the final straw. But if not ..............

[killbourne]

Hey Jerome I have an opportunity to buy a Grant S/L of TWTTKH now that I can't pass up. I'm going to have to pass on buying ********** for now. I can probably pay for it in about a month after my bank account has a chance to recover

I dunno....a couple emails back and forth isn't really a commitment....plus, he did say he might buy the books in a month.

In fact, he didn't really confirm the purchase 100 percent - what he said was "Sounds good. Would you mind if I pay by Friday?" Which means a firm arrangement had not been reached - it was a question, not a decision. Now obviously, it's leaning toward firm, but it's not there yet.

As far as I can tell, the next time he emailed was to say he'd changed his mind, so the deal was never totally finalized.

Anyway....I think people here need to relax a little bit. It's not Ebay...it's fans just trying to buy and sell a few books.

I wouldn't deal with somebody who did that to me, don't get me wrong, but is it that big a deal? But - cancelling and backing out AFTER payment has been made is aggravating - I agree with Tippy, I'd offer $10 or something for the annoyance.

As unpopular as this may be .... RF, I think you over-reacted a bit since your potential buyer hadn't made payment yet. If he had backed out and cancelled on an already-made payment then, yes, absolutely justified. But, judging solely by the e-mail exchange, I'd say he changed his mind because he found something he liked better. So what? What's wrong with that? It's his money, his choice ... I agree with Rahfa that I don't see where he had an iron-clad, contract-signed obligation to make the purchase. In fact, it sounds to me like he wanted to make sure that you wouldn't be offended by his choice, and ensuring that you understood he'd still like to do it next paycheck. A future sale is still a sale!

If you found a car you really liked at a good price from someone on Craigs List, agreed to buy it, and then found the car of your dreams before you actually made the purchase, would you buy the first car out of some sense of obligation? Hell no you wouldn't, you'd tell the guy sorry, I've changed my mind! Until money has actually changed hands or a contract signed, a buyer has every right to change his mind and not make a purchase! Now granted, if it's someone here on the boards, and they've expressly made a promise to buy (handshake deal), and you've gone out of your way to accommodate them (like in Tippy's situation) ... that does need to count for something. If that buyer did that multiple times, then his reputation would be duly noted. But a one-off change of mind, with notice given before purchase, and a (hopefully) sincere interest in making same purchase at a future date? I just don't see it as a major problem.

I had a similiar situation while I was still in Germany last year (may have been the year before) with David, where I expressed interest in purchasing several titles. That was around the time that he had family issues (I think ... I know he wasn't at the store for a time), and since the Betts website is still 90's vintage I couldn't make the purchases on the spot. That was actually lucky for me, because by the time David came back my money situation had drastically changed and I could no longer afford to buy what I'd expressed interest in buying. If he was mad at me, he certainly didn't say so ... and in fact I used the opportunity to suggest upgrading of the website. Had I been able to see photos and purchase on the spot, I would have ... it would have really sucked for me a week or so later, but he would have made the sales, and that's what business is all about.

Had I, or John, or Tippy, or Bill, or Bob done the same with you, expressed interest but then changed our mind because something better came along, would we have received the same scathing response, with a threat to be outed? If so, I don't know that I would have resorted to name-calling (if I had, I would have run spell-check, that's for sure ... no mercy here!) ... but rather I would hope that we could have just worked it out as colleagues.

Remember Bill's tirade a few weeks ago with Michael? No offense, but your's had the same flavor for me ... your reaction just struck as a little over the top, a little unjustified. If there's more background between you and your buyer than what you've shown (which may very well be the case .... I personally have no idea who it is), then okay, maybe it's a personal thing with past experiences and this was the final straw. But if not ..............

Agreed.

[olverts]

Agree too , i don´t think he did anything wrong !

[e_taylor]

Definitely an over reaction. As was said, if it was one of the well known, older posters there would be no animosity or threat of outing them.

Its stuff like this that turns people off of this site - its too much of an old boy's club. If you're an old timer you're part of the club, if you're new Jerome is going to be a bit of an ass to you at every opportunity.

Ironic side note, it was my copy of TWTTK that you told me I was "insulting" the members of this site by offering at $900 shipped that caused your issue. Seeing as it sold for $850 shipped, I hardly think my price was an insult.

[jhanic]

I still don't think it was an over-reaction. A man's word is his bond. If you make a deal, you should stick to it. It's the honorable thing to do.

John

[Ben Staad]

Well I have to disagree...As a buyer, you make a commitment, and make the transfer period. I would hope that all buyers have already done their research and know what they should and can afford as well as knowing what they want to buy. Of course, emergencies do happen but this thread is for people that have had more then one emergency or have flat out ripped someone off right???

[Ben Staad]

I still don't think it was an over-reaction. A man's word is his bond. If you make a deal, you should stick to it. It's the honorable thing to do.

John

Agreed!

[divemaster]

I still don't think it was an over-reaction. A man's word is his bond. If you make a deal, you should stick to it. It's the honorable thing to do.

John

I also agree with this. It's one thing for a buyer to request more photos or description, or say, "hmmm, I have to think about it for a while," etc. But once someone says "I'll PayPal you on Friday" or "I agree to that price and will buy the book" to me that is a commitment. An oral contract. Would it hold up in a court of law? No, of course not. But is that what our commitments are reduced to these days? Seeing how much you can wiggle out of a deal you agreed to of your own free will?

I know some folks want to keep a seller dangling on a hook while they scope out other deals, but if you are going to do that, be up front. Don't agree to buy the book until you are prepared to follow through.

I say this as a 99% buyer, not as some disgruntled seller. Just that fair is fair.

[Mr. Rabbit Trick]

In my world a "handshake" is your bond. You don't break a bond. Maybe some may think that is old fashioned, but that's how I am.

[Rahfa]

He did not say "I will pay you on Friday."

He said, "Would you mind if I pay Friday?"

That's not a deal - yet. It's a question. This isn't a handshake, or arrangement, or bond.

If he had said, "Okay, you can expect my payment by Friday at noon." Then, that IS a committment.

This is why I rarely do deals here, though, except with a tiny handful of people - it's not worth this potential aggravation and bad feeling. Ebay keeps it all above board, and they can handle the 'file a complaint' paperwork.

EDIT: In the post below, Dan mentions how the book was off the market...that's legitimate, but this specific book wasn't taken off the market unless RF wanted it to be off the market. The buyer put it out there that he wanted the book, and RF emailed HIM, not the other way around.

If somebody had emailed RF a higher offer after that first connection, or said "I'll pay on Thursday," then the seller only owes a courtesy heads-up to the original requester. No "hold" was implied here...I don't know the timeline though...if we're talking a week, that's a long time...but if this were a day or two, that's not that significant.

[Dan]

I really didn't want to join this conversation, but I guess I am. It didn't sound like a hard fast deal, but the book was effectively taken off the market for any other buyer. If the book was sold after the buyer made this pseudo deal, he would have been mad that the book was sold. It can't go one way, either it's a deal for the seller and buyer or no deal at all. I don't blame RF for being mad.

[Ben Staad]

He did not say "I will pay you on Friday."

He said, "Would you mind if I pay Friday?"

That's not a deal - yet. It's a question. This isn't a handshake, or arrangement, or bond.

If he had said, "Okay, you can expect my payment by Friday at noon." Then, that IS a committment.

This is why I rarely do deals here, though, except with a tiny handful of people - it's not worth this potential aggravation and bad feeling. Ebay keeps it all above board, and they can handle the 'file a complaint' paperwork.

EDIT: In the post below, Dan mentions how the book was off the market...that's legitimate, but this specific book wasn't taken off the market unless RF wanted it to be off the market. The buyer put it out there that he wanted the book, and RF emailed HIM, not the other way around.

If somebody had emailed RF a higher offer after that first connection, or said "I'll pay on Thursday," then the seller only owes a courtesy heads-up to the original requester. No "hold" was implied here...I don't know the timeline though...if we're talking a week, that's a long time...but if this were a day or two, that's not that significant.

In this community someone saying they will pay on Friday means the book is now unavailable to other buyers...period.

[carlosdetweiller]

From the above comments is it implied that we should probably avoid BOTH the buyer AND the seller like the plague?

[Lurker]

His (if it's a him, I have no clue who it is) whole statement was: "That sounds good. Would you mind if I pay Friday?"
"That sounds good" is the acceptance of the offer: "$250 + $10 Media mail shipping". There is now a binding contract. "Would you mind if I pay Friday?" is a promise of performance.

I have to agree with if you tell somebody you're gonna buy - then buy it. Another good deal always comes along, but once your reputation is gone, it's gone.

[Garrell]

He did not say "I will pay you on Friday."

He said, "Would you mind if I pay Friday?"

That's not a deal - yet. It's a question. This isn't a handshake, or arrangement, or bond.

If he had said, "Okay, you can expect my payment by Friday at noon." Then, that IS a committment.

This is why I rarely do deals here, though, except with a tiny handful of people - it's not worth this potential aggravation and bad feeling. Ebay keeps it all above board, and they can handle the 'file a complaint' paperwork.

EDIT: In the post below, Dan mentions how the book was off the market...that's legitimate, but this specific book wasn't taken off the market unless RF wanted it to be off the market. The buyer put it out there that he wanted the book, and RF emailed HIM, not the other way around.

If somebody had emailed RF a higher offer after that first connection, or said "I'll pay on Thursday," then the seller only owes a courtesy heads-up to the original requester. No "hold" was implied here...I don't know the timeline though...if we're talking a week, that's a long time...but if this were a day or two, that's not that significant.

In this community someone saying they will pay on Friday means the book is now unavailable to other buyers...period.

If I ask a seller if it is ok to pay on a certain day, that is my commitment to buy unless he says no to that date. It is the same when I am dealing with customers at work(where I am the seller) and they buyers at work understand this also.