Not really, because of intent, which we know you think is totally irrelevant, but many many many people disagree with that.Originally Posted by mistercrowley
Not really, because of intent, which we know you think is totally irrelevant, but many many many people disagree with that.
I would rather books go directly to collectors than be filtered at great cost through flippers or speculators. Why is that such a surprise to people? I honestly don't understand it. Wait, I do understand it: the flippers don't like my opinion.
You have completely misinterpreted and misrepresented my position.Should we start a "Not a Flipper" club? We can make a rule that says that if a member wants to sell a book, they must first make it available to all other members at the original price. I think that would solve all of our problems on this issue.
Kinda' off topic but I'm just hoping to obtain a copy of the Carrie Lettered Edition with the intent of adding it to my collection.
Not sure what that makes me. Collector? Anti-Flipper? Dumb Ass for spending that much?
I dunno. I just want 1 of the fucking 26 copies......
Jesus.....
P.S. I should get positive rep for this post. Pretty funny after reading it again!
So I guess we have to amend the "Not a Flipper" club bylaws to read, "it is acceptable for a club member to offer a book for sale to a non-member at a price higher than issue price as long as the member pinky swears that the member did not initially purchase the book with the intent of ever selling it to a non-member."
No I didn't; my response wasn't directed at you, but was confusing because I didn't use the quote function. Feel free to ignore me; most of my posts are one-half (usually the sarcastic half) of my own internal dialog.
Now you've confused me.
I think it makes you a communist, for wanting to collect a book rather than profit off it.
Wait I think I understand it fulman! If we hold onto the book for more then six months and THEN sell it we are not considered flippers.
You son of a bitch. You told me that you were going to flip the copy of Joyland I sold you! (I kept it for a year so it's okay)
My post was in response to kingfan24's post, not yours.
I'm going to say one more thing, most of which I've probably already said three times, and then I swear to Stephen I will shut up. Because I'm really not (that much of) an asshole.
I'd never really heard of buying something at retail and then making hundreds of dollars (or thousands in the case of the PS3) off it on the secondary market before the Wii and PS3. We all know flippers were buying Wiis and PS3s and selling them for way over retail. The guy that maybe doesn't have a lot of extra cash and really wanted to get his kids one amazing Christmas gift doesn't end up getting one, despite standing in a cold line for hours, because there were too many flippers in line in front of him, and he couldn't afford to pay the extra on the secondary market. You KNOW it happened. It did. Fact. I DO NOT LIKE someone taking a PS3 or Wii out of the hands of that guys kids and putting it in the hands of someone else just because that someone else can afford to pay hundreds or thousands over retail for it on eBay, despite the fact that I would/could benefit far more from flipping that I could be hurt by it. I've had the chance to flip things. I left them for someone else, and hoped it was an actual consumer and not just a flipper.
It offends my sense of fair play. Period. I don't think you take the Wii out of Tiny Tim's hands and put it in the hands of an upper middle class douchebag just to make a few bucks, despite the fact that I myself am one of the upper middle class douchebags that could benefit from it.
Yes, flipping King books is less offensive because it isn't for a kid at Christmas. But it's also more offensive because at least the Wii flippers were standing in line for hours which is something many of the end users didn't want to do, book flippers are clicking a couple buttons and not much else. You can't really claim you're providing much of a service there. To answer one of my previous questions, the reason the Sonys and Nintendos of the world don't do this themselves: because they know it will piss a ton of people directly off. Why would you do the exact same thing and NOT expect to piss some people off? If anything I'd rather see the money go to the publisher, so they can make tons of money and provide us with even more amazing production values and more amazing artwork and more signatures and more everything. I would rather NOT see the money go to someone that really did nothing more than click a few buttons to buy a book and create an eBay ad.
If you think I'm an idiot that's full of shit, then that's your prerogative, but arguments like "Don't buy it and it has no affect on you." and "No really it doesn't matter what your intent is." aren't real convincing, sorry.
And thanks whomever for the personal attack in my feedback. I hope it wasn't from someone upset at me for being insulting or "personal" since that'd be kind of hypocritical.
You have not explained. You have stated so.
I suppose that I need a better definition of what you consider a "flipper." David at Bett's qualifies for many of his listings if immediately selling for profit is the criterion. The only thing I can think of that sets Bett's apart from what you call flippers is the consignment sales or sale of his own collection aspects. Otherwise both purchase, inspect, resell, package and ship books. Some better than others. I know for a fact that there are "flippers" who are better at it than David. (Love ya David)
***
The intent was to make a profit. The only difference being the business model.
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
Purely out of curiosity, besides the terminology, is there a difference between "flippers" and "scalpers" or is one just a nicer term for the other?
There is a difference between a book and a ticket. So yes there is a difference. Is there a difference between "flippers" and booksellers? No
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
I bet there are quite afew small press publishers that would disagree with you!!! LOLBuying a book to collect, later deciding that you'd rather have something else or you need the money (usually months/years later), and selling it for a profit is not the same thing as buying something solely to immediately flip for a profit. If it's the same to you (since you do it) then bully for you, it isn't the same to me, I think it's sleazy.
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
They are the same thing! (At the time of the event)
Wow... I mean I guess that's the point of the tread and all... but wow. Here's hoping to not have to read that topic debated ever again.
*note to self - don't ever open the [Buying Things] thread again*
I highly disagree with you about booksellers. Booksellers are there, literally, to make a profit off selling books. I'm a professional at a children's hospital. I'm not buying books intentionally to gouge customers in the other end and make a profit. Bookstores exist because they literally have one thing to do, sell books. Also, they charge cover price on books unless you are dealing with a specialty shop. Even then most charge issue price for new books. For example, Camelot sold over 70 sets of ACoK at issue price for their customers. They could have made massive profits of that book, but they didn't.There is a difference between a book and a ticket. So yes there is a difference. Is there a difference between "flippers" and booksellers? No
The only difference between those that flip books and tickets are the physical object they are reselling. Scalpers practices are just as disagreeable to me.
On the issue of intent, this is an extreme example, but one nonetheless. You can have assault with intent to do bodily harm/kill. Or you can have just plain assault. Not saying this is at all applicable, but I think that intent is very important.
I think there is a lot to be said about people's intentions. Devious or not, some people will disagree with your intentions and some won't.
I used to FLIP bubble gum on the bus on my way to school when I was in grade school. I felt rich with my $2 daily profit. Oh, how times have changed.
"Absorb the genius of the moment." -Michael Stipe
"Victory is sweet even deep in the cheap seats." -Connor Oberst
NEED:
One For Road Signed Artist Edition, PS Publishing
The Gunslinger Viking proof
Carrie $7.95 Doubleday later printing
I realize that there is a different business model for a primary market bookseller and a secondary market bookseller. Each are however booksellers. For many secondary market resellers it is their primary occupation. Usually the lines are blurred as to the market with the exception of the large bookstores. For instance Camelot (love ya Kim) is both a primary seller and also a reseller. They often have secondary market items for sale as well as items at list price. They also aren't averse to raising the price of a book once it is sufficiently out of print. On the other hand the reseller usually isn't just sniping lettered editions although some do.
I do find it reasonable that some collectors feel that collectors should have a greater opportunity to purchase collectible books than resellers. I just don't happen to feel that way. I also find it reasonable that some collectors feel that they, and the resellers, and anyone else who might happen to want to buy the book for whatever reason, should have equal opportunity. Neither position is illegal, immoral, unethical, "sleazy", or necessarily wrong. At least no one here has shown either to be so.
Bookselling is not a crime. The intent is to make a profit. It's a market system. I can agree that a market system isn't always agreeable.
The only actual problem seems to be with the specific business model based on a perceived intent.
Being bothered by the market for high end collectible books is definitely a First World problem. I apologize for my lack of sympathy.
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
The original question I asked (before God intervened and moved it to this thread) was:
If a copy was bought to simply 'flip', would other members be glad of an opportunity to get hold of a copy (especially those with large wallets) or would there be anger at the profiteering?"
I would say that question has been answered. 1 or 2 would be apoplectic
Lessons learnt:
1. Cornering the Market and owning all copies would be frowned upon
2. Flipping is fine but don't take the pi$$
3. The inflated prices of Wii's and PS3's at seasonal times of the year can leave deep emotional scars.
"A real limited edition, far from being an expensive autograph stapled to a novel, is a treasure. And like all treasures do, it transforms the responsible owner into a caretaker, and being a caretaker of something as fragile and easily destroyed as ideas and images is not a bad thing but a good one...and so is the re-evaluation of what books are and what they do that necessarily follows." - Stephen King
"One day you're going to figure out that everything they taught you was a lie."
hahahahahahahahahahahhahaThe original question I asked (before God intervened and moved it to this thread) was:
If a copy was bought to simply 'flip', would other members be glad of an opportunity to get hold of a copy (especially those with large wallets) or would there be anger at the profiteering?"
I would say that question has been answered. 1 or 2 would be apoplectic
Lessons learnt:
1. Cornering the Market and owning all copies would be frowned upon
2. Flipping is fine but don't take the pi$$
3. The inflated prices of Wii's and PS3's at seasonal times of the year can leave deep emotional scars.
HELP ME FIND
Insomnia #459
ANY S/L #459
This is the most intelligent sentence written in this entire thread.. Being bothered by the market for high end collectible books is definitely a First World problem. I apologize for my lack of sympathy.
I like, no LOVE flippers and whomever else sells books. It's how I've gained my collection. Please keep offering books I didn't find on my own and I will only buy what I can afford and I will be happy. Not really sure which logical fallacy the whole children's electronics story has to do with this, but to me it's a wildly fanciful statement to compare them.
Dan
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