He's claiming he was the Joker. :facepalm:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...lynightly&lite
He's claiming he was the Joker. :facepalm:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...lynightly&lite
Ok, here's my opinion (and some may not like it...or might even be pissed by it in ways), but I think the problem is us...not us actually, but the big US...our society. I think we do create this...and all the sort of things like it. I think we are diseased or sick. I think our culture (no, not pop culture) or modern society produces these things and I think it's been going this way a long time. And I'm not sure there's an easy fix. I do not think these people are weak minded (anymore than the average of us at least). It's like a disease of the soul. Now some really smart shrinks will come up with some fancy name for what's wrong with this guy and there will be books and much public discussion that comforts the rest of us into believing that we have a grip on what he did. We don't. I think the real question to ask is what about our society produces these type of people. It's not music, movies, video games or whatever and it's also not the parents. It's something about us as a whole. Maybe I'm fucked up for thinking this way, but I have for a long time.
Coincidentally, America has created two great original genres in film: Gunfighters and Mobsters.
You're not entirely off base, Brice. I don't want to sound political or anything, but the fact is our "society" has changed substantially in the last 40-50 years and values, etc have as well. It may well be having repercussions that are being manifested in the rise in the number of these type of incidents!!Originally Posted by Brice
It's certainly something to consider and think about!!
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
That's basically a part of what I mean(I'm not really sure how to convey it as a full idea yet)*...and (roughly) the same timeline I'd put to it...though I'd have said a bit earlier on my own.You're not entirely off base, Brice. I don't want to sound political or anything, but the fact is our "society" has changed substantially in the last 40-50 years and values, etc have as well. It may well be having repercussions that are being manifested in the rise in the number of these type of incidents!!
It's certainly something to consider and think about!!
*Roland would say our world is moving on. LOL
I hear ya!!! Maybe the "Occam's Razor" of it all is that these days we all get "older" a heckuva lot faster than we used to!!!That's basically a part of what I mean(I'm not really sure how to convey it as a full idea yet)*...and (roughly) the same timeline I'd put to it...though I'd have said a bit earlier on my own.You're not entirely off base, Brice. I don't want to sound political or anything, but the fact is our "society" has changed substantially in the last 40-50 years and values, etc have as well. It may well be having repercussions that are being manifested in the rise in the number of these type of incidents!!
It's certainly something to consider and think about!!
*Roland would say our world is moving on. LOL
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
I think maybe that's part of the problem. We get older and maybe we attribute the changes to a generation gap or some such thing. We don't want to believe that there is something REALLY wrong with US...cause if there is how the hell do we fix it. We want to forget ...to move on. Those of us (personally) affected would want to remember our loved ones, but do we really want to understand what makes these people the way they are? I don't think so. I think we want to write those people off as crazies or fanatics (Goddamn, we love our labels, don't we)...cause it's easier and safer. An us and them mentality is easier and safer. Sort of like the situation where people don't want to really talk about things like the world trade center attacks or the holocaust...or whatever really underlying whys there were behind them. It's too soon..or whatever. I don't think it's ever too soon...or too late. In fact I do think I know a big part of the problem...just not sure where to go with it. We're too divisive, but there's more than just that.I hear ya!!! Maybe the "Occam's Razor" of it all is that these days we all get "older" a heckuva lot faster than we used to!!!That's basically a part of what I mean(I'm not really sure how to convey it as a full idea yet)*...and (roughly) the same timeline I'd put to it...though I'd have said a bit earlier on my own.You're not entirely off base, Brice. I don't want to sound political or anything, but the fact is our "society" has changed substantially in the last 40-50 years and values, etc have as well. It may well be having repercussions that are being manifested in the rise in the number of these type of incidents!!
It's certainly something to consider and think about!!
*Roland would say our world is moving on. LOL
My opinion is there are some people out there who are sick in the head, and something triggers them into doing something terrible. I don't think there is any one thing that can be blamed.
I am terribly sad for the victims, but also for the shooter's family. I think some people overlook the perpetrator's family in these circumstances, and for them it can be even worse as they thought they knew this person. I heard the mother of the Nickel Mines shooter speak once, and she was just heartbroken and confused over her son's crime. I don't think anyone in the room wasn't crying with her.
A lady always remembers her courtesies.
TMI, much too early, and with little supervision? They just get "older" these days with no one to guide them who has any experience. Families are increasingly "split" so there's no central "supervising" body. In a way, if you are old enough to have lived through the changes to society's rule's, it's really not "rocket science". Again, not political more like fact. Have we come a long way as a society? yes!!! Have we addressed the consequences? no!!!I think maybe that's part of the problem. We get older and maybe we attribute the changes to a generation gap or some such thing. We don't want to believe that there is something REALLY wrong with US...cause if there is how the hell do we fix it. We want to forget ...to move on. Those of us (personally) affected would want to remember our loved ones, but do we really want to understand what makes these people the way they are? I don't think so. I think we want to write those people off as crazies or fanatics (Goddamn, we love our labels, don't we)...cause it's easier and safer. An us and them mentality is easier and safer. Sort of like the situation where people don't want to really talk about things like the world trade center attacks or the holocaust...or whatever really underlying whys there were behind them. It's too soon..or whatever. I don't think it's ever too soon...or too late. In fact I do think I know a big part of the problem...just not sure where to go with it. We're too divisive, but there's more than just that.I hear ya!!! Maybe the "Occam's Razor" of it all is that these days we all get "older" a heckuva lot faster than we used to!!!That's basically a part of what I mean(I'm not really sure how to convey it as a full idea yet)*...and (roughly) the same timeline I'd put to it...though I'd have said a bit earlier on my own.You're not entirely off base, Brice. I don't want to sound political or anything, but the fact is our "society" has changed substantially in the last 40-50 years and values, etc have as well. It may well be having repercussions that are being manifested in the rise in the number of these type of incidents!!
It's certainly something to consider and think about!!
*Roland would say our world is moving on. LOL
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
[QUOTE=Ka-mai;715712]My opinion is there are some people out there who are sick in the head, and something triggers them into doing something terrible. I don't think there is any one thing that can be blamed.
QUOTE]
Hey Sarah, I can understand and respect that viewpoint (I've basically had the same opinion at times in the past), but I also think that's the easy answer and is probably directly opposed to what I'm (trying) to get at. I'd argue it, but really I think I already have as solidly as I can at this point. Of course, my idea is not fully formed though.
I would say a shift in family dynamics is probably a factor to a considerable degree.TMI, much too early, and with little supervision? They just get "older" these days with no one to guide them who has any experience. Families are increasingly "split" so there's no central "supervising" body. In a way, if you are old enough to have lived through the changes to society's rule's, it's really not "rocket science". Again, not political more like fact. Have we come a long way as a society? yes!!! Have we addressed the consequences? no!!!I think maybe that's part of the problem. We get older and maybe we attribute the changes to a generation gap or some such thing. We don't want to believe that there is something REALLY wrong with US...cause if there is how the hell do we fix it. We want to forget ...to move on. Those of us (personally) affected would want to remember our loved ones, but do we really want to understand what makes these people the way they are? I don't think so. I think we want to write those people off as crazies or fanatics (Goddamn, we love our labels, don't we)...cause it's easier and safer. An us and them mentality is easier and safer. Sort of like the situation where people don't want to really talk about things like the world trade center attacks or the holocaust...or whatever really underlying whys there were behind them. It's too soon..or whatever. I don't think it's ever too soon...or too late. In fact I do think I know a big part of the problem...just not sure where to go with it. We're too divisive, but there's more than just that.I hear ya!!! Maybe the "Occam's Razor" of it all is that these days we all get "older" a heckuva lot faster than we used to!!!That's basically a part of what I mean(I'm not really sure how to convey it as a full idea yet)*...and (roughly) the same timeline I'd put to it...though I'd have said a bit earlier on my own.You're not entirely off base, Brice. I don't want to sound political or anything, but the fact is our "society" has changed substantially in the last 40-50 years and values, etc have as well. It may well be having repercussions that are being manifested in the rise in the number of these type of incidents!!
It's certainly something to consider and think about!!
*Roland would say our world is moving on. LOL
I don't even think we've fully grasped the consequences. And I'm not saying the changes are bad, but I think we've gotten away from analyzing potential consequences before making changes in all aspects of our society. It's almost like all change is good. I had a boss once tell me there's no such thing as a bad idea. I said "that's one".
Ugh, I had something typed out and I lost it, so fuck it. Here's a summary.
There is something wrong with our society, however, we have always throughout the history of mankind had people who just got up one day and committed an atrocity. Maybe they burned down a tavern when it was full of people or whatever. If they were rich or powerful they could probably get away with it until there was an uprising. It seems like there's a lot more of these people around now, but there's also just a lot more people on earth in general.
A lady always remembers her courtesies.
Perhaps, in cases like Aurora where the guy said he was the "Joker", he is imitating a fictional character because he believes that the character would approve of his actions? As has been said, our society is rapidly advancing and full of competition. It may be something as trivial as the scramble to get the latest cell phone or as important as trying to land a stable job or career. The cost of remaining competitive is time. Time that could be used for socializing with others. So maybe in cases like this guy from Aurora, the people he considered important ignored him, or weren't there to provide him the social support he needed. Hence he turns to a fictional character.
I can agree an increase in poulation is a factor just like I'd agree that our exposure to media is a factor. In fact I've used the same argument to support my idea that hitchiking is no more dangerous than it used to be. To an extent I think you're right there; I just think there's something else at play too...which is absolutely unprovable without hard data and statistics I'm too lazy to gather.Maybe it's something as simple as entropy...I don't know.
Yes, in fact the joker would approve. but then he'd be publicly mocking the guy after he did it...and taking delight in the fact that he was dumbass enough to do so for his approval.
I saw Paul Verhoven speak a few years ago, and he said he never could have made Basic Instinct in the Netherlands because the murder rate is too low for suspension of disbelief. Meaning I'd prefer to do my hitchhiking in Europe.
What this all makes me think about, on a grander scale, is what the end of us as a species will be. Is the increasing frequency of such incidents (or does it only seem that it's increasing?) a symptom of the humankind nearing its decline?Much like it is with all sorts of mechanisms: they first start showing smaller signs of wear and tear, and then one day just stop working.
If you are going through hell - keep going
Yeah, that's along the same lines as what I meant when I suggested entropy. The decline of our civilization perhaps if not out species?
If the best is behind us, then when exactly we were ever "working" anyway?
IMO, the best you can say for times like the 50s is that they HID the bad gunky better than now.
isn't this what civilization is about? As opposed to culture, which is overcoming the bad gunky. As opposed, in its turn, to political correctness which is, basically, the prohibition of expressing anything bad-gunky-ish verbally, under the misapprehension that this way the gunky will dissipate - while it is only being fed.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, but P.C. is a narrow term specifying a recent phenomenon, and your point applies just as well to repression in general.
Perhaps, but civilization is a broad term not usually set opposite culture, maybe misleading here, despite how well your point applies to the related "civility."
Ah, this porridge is just right!
And I believe you're absolutely correct. If anything, violent fiction is "symptomatic" of violence as vomit could be called a symptom for poison. That's just the reason I'm so vexed by censorship -- I don't know any substitute for art in this regard, except years of therapy or religion. I do not at all believe that there's any effectiveness in punitive conditioning, deterrence, or any of that extra gunky which all censors seem to count on.
When I read this I had one question. Have we as a civilization gotten better or stayed the same? Have we gotten better? Take the late 17 century, to be more specific, the Ripper case. The murders became so famous that it garnered a world wide media frenzy. People wanted to know if the murderer had been captured or if he had struck again? Journalists were frustrated by the unwillingness of the CID to reveal details of their investigation to the public, and so resorted to writing reports that were the equivalent of today's tabloids and caused one person to be arrested falsely because of their reporting. I guess what I am saying is should we consider ourselves better than what we were in 1888 or are we the same and just have evolved industriously and made things better to live with the way that we behave and with the choices that we have made?
Does whatever a spiderman does.
In the vein of Vonnegut, some people just have the bad chemicals in their brain which make them do crazy things. It's rare that humans have a trust in their own voice, in their own opinions, and this is where religion and the media attain their power. They accept the world as it is presented to them. They lose the ability to rationalize what they see and experience as they place endless trust in all the sources of information available to them. To be honest, I think if people do go insane and start doing stuff like this all over, I can only blame the internet. With the advent of the internet and smart phones, people are bombarded by information all day long; this one top of all the entertainment mediums, advertising, pictures, music and their own personal experiences. We never had much of a learning curve with absorbing of information; suddenly, without time to properly evolve to absorb such vast amounts of information, the brain can fuse out, send mixed signals, ignite parts of the brain with activity and kill others completely. Eventually, I believe people become so saturated with other people's thoughts in this day and age they forget their own, they forget their idenity and their humanity. The brain can only absorb so much information at a time. It would, in turn, begin to choose the easiest to process and that would often be familiar pieces of information; thus people can become obsessed with things so to allow the brain to function better. This can be something innocent or something harmful. An exhausted brain can be manipulated by one well timed factoid, the simpliest notion can control someone's mind. We are not evolved to intake so much information and I believe people's brains ent lower power mode and is very selective about the information is takes notice of. This is where an idea can take hold and a person will be super determined to make the idea come to fruition if only to be single minded and not bombarded with information.
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True, people need to have their own identity, but on the other hand, sometimes people have too much faith in their own personal thoughts. Prejudice and paranoia are a couple of examples of effects from being totally cut off from mainstream information sources. So it's a balancing act... but, yes indeed Matt, we need to be each responsible for balancing ourselves.
Sort of random, but did you all see that sick fuck in court today? What the hell is happening to us all? My God!!!
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
Sorry I'm late to the discussion. But there are some people that just for whatever reason lack a conscious and emotions. Something with the chemistry in their brain or whatnot. Have any of you heard of this book The Sociopath Next Door? Its been getting good reviews and I've been curious about reading it. I beleieve it tries to explain what these people are like. A normal sane person is not going to go on a mass murdering spree because of something he saw on tv. You have to have something seriously wrong with you and to lack certain things if you're going to do something like that. I don't think you can blame the media at all.
Only the gentle are ever really strong.
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