Do you watch Lost? If so -- the finale...see any similarities?!
Ok, I know this over 8 months ago, but since I not only recently watched the Lost finale a couple of weeks back - plus all the Lost discussion going on - I felt it was time to give my take on just how oddly similar and yet, at the end of it all, very different those two endings were.
Spoiler:
I like to think of this of as good example as any to show the difference between US endings to tv shows - or at least, the network shows - and the endings to a lot of UK ones. The concept of "it was all purgatory" was used in both, true, but whereas the purgatory in Lost was more of an epilogue to everything that had happened - a great big promise of a happy ending to all the characters as they find each other and journey into the next life together - with Ashes not only was it the story all along, but it was so much darker. It wasn't just a place where people could correct their mistakes and move on, it also had the huge risk to all the main characters that Lost didn't: namely, that they could not only make things worse for themselves in this copy of life, but that they would pay the ultimate price of eternal damnation if they did. I think it was genius for the writers to set this up by not only killing off (if you could call it that) the rather likeable character of Viv, but have him make a mistake so bad (even if it was done for the right reasons) that it's strongly implied he's in Hell to pay for it. That's just about the most evil thing i've heard done to a regular character in a tv show! Only in the UK, eh?
But i also love that Ashes still had its own little happy, or at least, bittersweet ending. A great one, in fact. I'm not saying that the Lost ending is terrible by comparison - far from it, as it was one of the most emotional endings i've watched in a show - but it's fascinating to see how both a UK and US show came up with a similar idea but took it in very different directions for their ending.
And as for
Spoiler:
Sam dying twice: it's been a few months, but was it actually stated that in order to get to Gene's world, you had to die? The writers obviously did a little bit of thinking about that, as they made subtle clues to the fact that, unlike in series 1 and 2, Alex was dead in the final series because she wasn't receiving any more messages from the real world. Still, the fact that both Sam and Alex heard them at all strongly implies that dying isn't a necessary part of ending up in Gene's world, but being in a coma, perhaps being very near brain dead, can also help get you there if you need to. How, i don't know, it's tv, but it's nice to see a little thought went into the final series, with all the nods and hints towards what it all was.
You know what? I really need to get that final series on dvd asap!
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
I think i might've recommended the show to ya before Merlin, but i'll explain the awesomeness of the show in short: Life on Mars is about Sam Tyler, a cop in 2006 who's hunting a serial killer. Problem is, he's finding it difficult when he's got a lot of modern day police procedural bullshit that can in some ways help the suspects go free rather than get formally charged. Worst, his girlfriend gets kidnapped by the killer he's chasing. Everything's going badly for Sam. That all changes, however, when he gets hit by a car and wakes up in 1973 (with a certain Bowie song blaring in the background when he wakes up). He has no idea why he's there, only that where he was once the boss in his own time, now he answers to alcoholic, sexist, chain smoking, racist bastard Gene Hunt. Life on Mars is the story of how he deals with police methods that rely entirely on instinct and ignore procedure altogether whilst trying to find a way home. It's also got one of the most awesome endings to a show ever.
Ashes to Ashes continues the story of Gene Hunt, but set 7 years later in 1981 with a different modern day copper. Grabbed your interest yet?
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
Yeah, I remeber LoM and gave it a shot when it was on Network TV for a while, but it go cancelled and I thought that was it. It was a good show, but we didn't get too much exposure. I well set my Tivo to look for "Ashes to Ashes". In the meantime watch out for the Diamond Dogs!!!!!!!
You probably saw the ABC remake, which, imo, wasn't half as good as the original. For a start, the remake didn't have the Test Card Girl (see my creepy little sig for a visual reference) or John Simm. Check out the BBC original first before Ashes, if you can. BBC > ABC.
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
You probably saw the ABC remake, which, imo, wasn't half as good as the original. For a start, the remake didn't have the Test Card Girl (see my creepy little sig for a visual reference) or John Simm. Check out the BBC original first before Ashes, if you can. BBC > ABC.
Hey, I'll give it a shot. What no Bowie Song quotes?
Currently re-watching final series of Ashes to Ashes, and thought I'd give a review for every ep or so, since i didn't bother writing up any reaction till the final episode. Which is pretty criminal, considering how many times i went, "WTF?!?" or "OMG!" across all 8 episodes. Anyway, I'll do my best to give my thoughts on how i felt when i first watched it (as well as marked spoilers for how each ep connects to that amazing ending).
Just watched ep 2, so basically, this mega awesome moment is still fresh in my mind:
That never gets old! Right, onto the serious stuff. I love that this ep was really focused on Shaz's character throughout, giving her essentially more development than she had in the previous 2 series. Plot was a bit standard, and not quite as full of witty dialogue as the first ep of this series, but I still love it for how much the writers are focused on the characters and their loose ends, especially in the final series.
However, nothing says "the end of everything since Life on Mars" as much as
Spoiler:
"It's a god awful small affair...to the girl with the mousy hair..."
When I first saw that, I was in two minds: "WTF?!?" (yes, i keep having that reaction, but then, it's one of those series when reactions like that are fairly common for one reason or another) at a development I couldn't even begin to guess at, but also sadness that one of my favourite shows - nay, the story of one of my favourite characters really was coming to an end.
Speaking of the end, gotta love all those hints towards it:
Spoiler:
The first appearance of the stars, although not a massive hint, all things considered.
Shaz's fear of screwdrivers. At the time I first watched it, I barely noticed it. After finding out what happened to Shaz though in the finale, I bloody loved it!
Nelson's voice and Life on Mars? heard for the first time since, well, Life on Mars. Brought real emotion to me when I heard that tiny snippet in this ep, so I'm glad they developed it further throughout the series.
Something I didn't notice until now: Alex still having plenty of trippy dreams and transmissions, but none of which are to do with the "real world". Genius hint on the writer's part at Alex's fate.
Right, i'll probably squeeze in another ep or two tomorrow and add a review then. Or maybe even squeeze another ep in tonight? It is a great and addictive final series, I must say.
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
I've never seen the BBC LOM but tried watching the American version and got bored to tears with it about 3 eps in and stopped watching. But if the clip you posted is any indication of what the show's about, I'll pass. I detest musicals [I'd put a little puking smilie here if we had one].
The UK edition of Life on Mars is 1000 times better than the dreary US remake. I almost gave up on Ashes to Ashes during the first season because I didn't like the lead character all that much, and never grew to like her as much as Sam Tyler, but I'm glad I stuck with it until the end. It's not a musical, but there are dreams and possible hallucinations involved in the story, which leads to scenes like the one above. They are rare and put to good effect. Gene Hunt rocks. I follow his twitter feed!
Admittedly, the clip is only awesome in context of the show. Suffice it to say, it's about as random as seeing Locke and Ben in Lost singing "Guy Love" from Scrubs. To get an idea of what Gene Hunt is actually like on a good day, here's a short clip of one of his many classic rants:
Originally Posted by Bev Vincent
The UK edition of Life on Mars is 1000 times better than the dreary US remake. I almost gave up on Ashes to Ashes during the first season because I didn't like the lead character all that much, and never grew to like her as much as Sam Tyler, but I'm glad I stuck with it until the end. It's not a musical, but there are dreams and possible hallucinations involved in the story, which leads to scenes like the one above. They are rare and put to good effect. Gene Hunt rocks. I follow his twitter feed!
Couldn't have described it better myself, Bev! By the way, as someone who watched brief clips of the US version (before seeing the ending and throwing up for several hours), I'm interested to know, did the US version have any kind of dream sequences or hallucinations like the UK version had? I did see a moment when Sam saw tiny robots, but did it ever make really random references to 70s pop culture like the original, but more focused on US references? Because the dream sequences, whether they were terryifying (especially in the case of that bloody Test Card Girl) or bloody hilarious, they were usually my favourite moments. To be honest, being only 22, at least half of them i didn't quite get the reference, but it never stopped me from laughing my arse off. This particular moment being one of my favourite examples:
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
bears are watching! ep.2 at the moment. A great scene in the hospital - the ring, the fight ("What on earth is going on?" - "Police officers!"), and all. Everything so far has been wonderfully conceived, written, acted and directed. I said it before, but I will be happy to repeat it in this thread: it is, first and foremost, an extremely intelligent show.
ETA: ... and yes, I too remember the time when you could smoke everywhere!
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, i love that hospital scene! Bloody hysterical! And then to have that nice little speech by Hunt afterwards about how much he loves his city...it's magical how easily this show could shift in tone, sometimes. Not just with comedy or drama but even the nice little moment of horror, too. (I assume you've seen the Test Card Girl by now, Jean? I love that moment: it's the kind of moment that's simultaneously horrifying and, for this Brit at least, hilarious in equal measure by the sheer ridiculousness of it.) I know what you mean about how well acted it is, too, especially with John Simm in the lead. This show really made me take notice of him, and he's usually bloody brilliant in everything I've seen him in so far. He also seems to team up with co-star Glenister quite a lot too in other productions. Which reminds me: I still need to check out their most recent show Mad Dogs. That certainly looks to be a show I'd enjoy from how "wtf?!?" it looks!
Really pleased you're enjoying the show so far anyway, Jean! I'd hate to think I'd recommended you something you thought sucked!
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
it is incredible, the way it is directed. At the beginning of ep 2, they are running down the stairs on the street: first the perpetrator, who scares the old woman climbing the stairs with her wheelbag, then Gene who almost pushes her, then Chris who upsets her bag, and finally - Sam who picks it up. All that to the sound of Live and Let Die.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who, if I remember correctly, is of course the one who gets hit by the old lady!
I also love the way the Test Card Girl's first appearance is handled: first Sam sees her on the tv saying, "What are you smiling at Mona Lisa?", before a corner of the room lights up and she's in the room with Sam. The way it's shot, the lighting, and of course, Sam's very believeable reaction to the whole thing: it is one of those rare moments - not just in tv but also in film - where it's simultaneously terrifying and fucking hilarious at the same time! It is, in short, insane. Just another classic example of why I enjoy watching this show over and over again so much!
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
Who, if I remember correctly, is of course the one who gets hit by the old lady!
Yes, YES!!!
I also love the way the Test Card Girl's first appearance is handled: first Sam sees her on the tv saying, "What are you smiling at Mona Lisa?", before a corner of the room lights up and she's in the room with Sam. The way it's shot, the lighting, and of course, Sam's very believeable reaction to the whole thing: it is one of those rare moments - not just in tv but also in film - where it's simultaneously terrifying and fucking hilarious at the same time! It is, in short, insane. Just another classic example of why I enjoy watching this show over and over again so much!
Oh, every fucking scene is classic!
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're right there. I was just remembering the interrogation between Gene, Sam and the suspect from the same episode. I could go on about how fantastic it is from beginning to end (especially with Gene being absolutely ruthless to the suspect and smacking him every time he opens his mouth), but I really just wanted to mention (one of) my favourite quote(s) from the episode:
"You know, if you were Pinocchio, you would've just poked my eye out!"
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
oh yes! and now I've just watched again that awesome scene with the blood on the street, where the clash of truths is articulated to the extreme
... now on to my other favorite, the hospital...
and one of my favorite quotations: "can I have a year that is AD, as opposed to BC?"
but, of course, the whole thing is quotable. As I re-started today, I thought I would post quotes, but it is hopeless: as with our other favorite movies, would have to quote entire thing
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Very true. I can't begin to praise it enough, really. Heather watched it, and whilst she enjoyed it at first, she did admit that she got bored of the cop show aspect of it. Really, a lot of the cases are really basic or really predictable. It's hardly the mystery of solving the crime that grabbed my interest in watching it, as I get very bored of a lot of cop shows myself. It's, well, everything else we've discussed that make it such a joy to watch. As you said, it's one of those rare shows where it's not what's on the surface that matters, but rather the number of layers and hidden depths where it's true appeal lies.
Never be cruel and never be cowardly. And if you ever are, always make amends.
You are a walking talking Doctor Who encyclopedia to me. - Melike
Yes. I don't care a flying fuck about the mystery, or, as I have said many times, about any immediate contents of a work of art. The three best (non-Polanski) films I've recently seen deal, respectively, with British teenagers' subculture of the 60s, unemployed actors, and zombies - couldn't care less about any of these.
watching ep.3 now - again, perfect visuals to get the idea across. How to show that someone was born for the job he does? He drives to the crime scene with a sandwich clamped between his teeth!
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also love how Sam uses one of Gene's own lines at the very beginning of the ep. And how completely unconvincing he sounds when he does it.
and I love how you always come up with exactly the part I wanted to mention in my post, and didn't only because too long posts would distract me from watching for too long...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted by Bev Vincent
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That never gets old! Right, onto the serious stuff. I love that this ep was really focused on Shaz's character throughout, giving her essentially more development than she had in the previous 2 series. Plot was a bit standard, and not quite as full of witty dialogue as the first ep of this series, but I still love it for how much the writers are focused on the characters and their loose ends, especially in the final series.
