I know these books are definitely up in the favourites for most people that have read them, but for those that may shy away because they are co-written - DON'T!!!
Out of anything else King has written, these use the most Dark Tower themes. Switching between the worlds, breaker prisons and the crimson king all feature along the way, so if you havent had a crack at them, its something you must do!
Which book did people prefer more - the more adventure-based Talisman or the more crime-related Black House?
"You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key zoneseek@thedarktower.com
I have read The Talisman and loved it, but for some reason I have never gotten around to reading Black House.
There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.
Its good, just a different approach. I preferred Talisman over the two - I could strongly relate to Jack Sawyer as when I read it was only a year or so after my mother had died.
"You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key zoneseek@thedarktower.com
I like about two thirds of Talisman. Especially the Sunlight Home part, which is unforgettable. But after the highest point of the story -
Spoiler:
Wolf's heroic death
- it rapidly went downhill, and the last quarter was hardly readable. I love the whole of Black House, though.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like about two thirds of Talisman. Especially the Sunlight Home part...[but] it rapidly went downhill, and the last quarter was hardly readable. I love the whole of Black House, though.
This are my sentiments exactly. The Talisman was okay for a while. Pretty good adventure, but lord did the last third blow. A chore to get through. In reading the Dark Tower series I was hoping that King would be able to do better than ending of The Talisman. (Thank God he did!).
Black House was very good. Maybe not top tier King, but not too many notches down the scale. I've only read it once. I have read The Talisman twice, but probably never again. I look forward to reading Black House again at some point.
I'm inclined to agree with Jean. I wasn't sure I'd be into Black House and that Jack would befriend anyone new I'd like as much as Wolf...then Henry Leyden came along...one of my favourite SK characters.ever.
I loved them both. I remember reading The Talisman when I was a kid and I enjoyed it so much. I read Black House a few months ago, I think I now prefer that one cuz of its more prevalent DT connections.
I like the Talisman more, probably because of it's whole 'epic quest' thing that it has going on. Black House is more localized - a good story, but not as adventurous. I'll agree, though, Henry was a frickin' awesome character. I also liked the Thunder Five dudes.
I loved both but, Black House didn't quite grab me like The Talisman did. It was still a really good book though and I can't wait for the supposed third book in the series(if it ever gets done).
The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.
If you rescue me
I’ll be your friend forever
I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)
I loved The Talisman...it has a great feel of adventure, more epic than Black House which was a much different book.
I don't think that the connections to the Tower in The Talisman were intentional, in fact I have read that it was really King's first attempt at toying with concepts that would later riddle the Tower books. Whereas the connections in Black House were obviously intentional, as this book was written specifically to tie in with the Tower. Both books are great, just different feels and the writing style in Black House, particularly the beginning, is a bit hard to get used to.
I loved both books, but I prefer The Talisman. I think the fact that I read The Talisman first and really loved it might make me a little biased towards it. Like others have said, I just really loved the sense of adventure in it.
Both books are great, just different feels and the writing style in Black House, particularly the beginning, is a bit hard to get used to.
Yes. It's mostly the use of the present tense. Rather annoying.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes. It's mostly the use of the present tense. Rather annoying.
This was what took me a bit to get into Black House. Once I got used to it, it smoothed it out for me.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" -Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
...
I don't think that the connections to the Tower in The Talisman were intentional, in fact I have read that it was really King's first attempt at toying with concepts that would later riddle the Tower books...
Thats correct - The Talisman was published in 1984, and King mentions The Territories again the DT3, published in 1991.
"You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think." - Duma Key zoneseek@thedarktower.com
I have read the Talisman several times over the years. When I was younger, the quest motif made an indelible impression over me and secured my place among other "constant readers." I enjoyed Black House, but found it a little more difficult to get into. I think the story really began to pick up after Jack began to acknowledge his past. Before that point, it was hard to see him as the as the same character from the Talisman. I loved the DT connections in Black House and really hoped that Jack would show up in the final novels, but of course he didn't.
I loved The Talisman...it has a great feel of adventure, more epic than Black House which was a much different book.
I don't think that the connections to the Tower in The Talisman were intentional, in fact I have read that it was really King's first attempt at toying with concepts that would later riddle the Tower books. Whereas the connections in Black House were obviously intentional, as this book was written specifically to tie in with the Tower. Both books are great, just different feels and the writing style in Black House, particularly the beginning, is a bit hard to get used to.
I agree completely.
I have always been frustrated that Black House was simply a book to tie Talisman into the Dark Tower series.
I lot of it doesn't make sense to me. For example:
Spoiler:
The introduction of the 'twinners' in the Dark Tower series. Okay, the Tower in our world has a twinner, a rose. That's well and good, except when Jack first visits the Dark Tower universe in Black House he notices it's a different world- it's not a 'territory' in the sense that you don't flip into it, and none of their belongings change. Which makes sense considering Roland and the katet never experienced twinners and their items changing when they went to different worlds.
Not to mention the fact that the Talisman is supposed the be the 'axis' of all the worlds, like Jack. Unique amongst all the different worlds, and existing in each of them...which sounds a lot like the Dark Tower, except, as noted above- it already has a twinner (the rose).
There's also Roland and King himself between twinners. I...I'm still not sure what to say to that exactly.
There were other issues I had. I think you're spot on that the Dark Tower and the Talisman were drawn from the same roots... they share several themes and ideas, but I don't think that makes them compatible.
I loved The Talisman...it has a great feel of adventure, more epic than Black House which was a much different book.
I don't think that the connections to the Tower in The Talisman were intentional, in fact I have read that it was really King's first attempt at toying with concepts that would later riddle the Tower books. Whereas the connections in Black House were obviously intentional, as this book was written specifically to tie in with the Tower. Both books are great, just different feels and the writing style in Black House, particularly the beginning, is a bit hard to get used to.
I agree completely.
I have always been frustrated that Black House was simply a book to tie Talisman into the Dark Tower series.
I lot of it doesn't make sense to me. For example:
Spoiler:
The introduction of the 'twinners' in the Dark Tower series. Okay, the Tower in our world has a twinner, a rose. That's well and good, except when Jack first visits the Dark Tower universe in Black House he notices it's a different world- it's not a 'territory' in the sense that you don't flip into it, and none of their belongings change. Which makes sense considering Roland and the katet never experienced twinners and their items changing when they went to different worlds.
Not to mention the fact that the Talisman is supposed the be the 'axis' of all the worlds, like Jack. Unique amongst all the different worlds, and existing in each of them...which sounds a lot like the Dark Tower, except, as noted above- it already has a twinner (the rose).
There's also Roland and King himself between twinners. I...I'm still not sure what to say to that exactly.
There were other issues I had. I think you're spot on that the Dark Tower and the Talisman were drawn from the same roots... they share several themes and ideas, but I don't think that makes them compatible.
You both make some very valid points and one's that have troubled me as well. In the end, I chalked it up as a "Failed experiment" though BH is one of my favorite King books. I think King even cops to it as well by stating that all the other DT related books were "Red Herring's" except for "Insomnia" in DTVII. In the end it was kind of a shame for the constant reader, but "Shit Happens"!!
You both make some very valid points and one's that have troubled me as well. In the end, I chalked it up as a "Failed experiment" though BH is one of my favorite King books. I think King even cops to it as well by stating that all the other DT related books were "Red Herring's" except for "Insomnia" in DTVII. In the end it was kind of a shame for the constant reader, but "Shit Happens"!!
I thought Insomnia was included in that because
Spoiler:
Roland refused to read it or hear about what was in the book.
As far as Sid's comments, the territories stories don't really fit into the DT universe, but they overlap. I look at it as the territory stories are on the other side of the tower from Roland's stories, and in Black House they sort of overlap.
I'd really like to see another Jack Sawyer story, I hope King and Straub write another. Black House was a great book, I love that audio book, especially what the narrator does with Uncle Henry.
As far as Sid's comments, the territories stories don't really fit into the DT universe, but they overlap. I look at it as the territory stories are on the other side of the tower from Roland's stories, and in Black House they sort of overlap.
I'd really like to see another Jack Sawyer story, I hope King and Straub write another. Black House was a great book, I love that audio book, especially what the narrator does with Uncle Henry.
I wish that was the case, but:
Spoiler:
Father Callaghan joins the Katet in the...fifth? Dark Tower novel, and when he recounts his story of what happened after Salem's Lot, he recounts how he would flip between territories, and unlike Jack in the Talisman, he could flip into *several* different territories.
King did want to reconcile the two, it would seem.
(There's also the fact that Wolf's twinner appears to be in the Stand)
As for the third Talisman novel, there's been quotes from Straub (and King I believe) about how they've been planning on getting together within the past couple of years to write it.
Most speculation, to my regret, thinks it'll be a 'Dark Tower VIII' book...
I'm not a *huge* fan of the Dark Tower series. It's not bad, but...the later novels I didn't enjoy nearly as much, especially once King started to try and combine everything and wrote himself into the book.
I remember in his letters to the 'Constant Reader' in the early novels, he thought the series would be 9+ novels long.
In...VII? I think, he writes how he encountered a fan with cancer, and she swore she wouldn't tell a soul...but asked him to reveal how it would end, as she wouldn't be alive to read the last books herself. King says in his letter that he wanted to tell her, but didn't know...as he hadn't written it yet.
I suspect that's why the last couple of novels feel so rushed...for better or worse.
The Talisman / Black House
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Originally Posted by Jean
