Hopefully Lisa will explain it. I think its a great theory.Originally Posted by Bumbler19
Check out the Donnie Darko thread bumbler. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Hopefully Lisa will explain it. I think its a great theory.
Check out the Donnie Darko thread bumbler. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I haven't been posting in the discussions much lately because I'm using wii internet which is hell!
Ryan, I'm not really sure. The comic backstories have provided me with "evidence" (I use the term loosely) to support both my old and new theories.
For the bubble theory I found this:
(Bumbler, my theory is that the Tower/Gan has taken the passage of time from Roland being in the desert upto his reaching the Tower, and set it aside, out of time [in it's own little bubble, if you will] to create the endless loop...until the point where Roland "gets it right").The worlds spun and seasons passed, but the Dark Tower was timeless. It generated time.
The second quote however, thats making me think Roland may only think he's looping, when infact he's repeating the quest in all the possible worlds...is on the previous page in my last post.
But Jayson, even if this new theory sticks for me, I still think he picks the same Eddie, Suze and Jake each time. The doors make that possible.
Well, if you are ok with discussing the bubble theory i'm going to jump in and say a few things.
If it was a time bubble, completely separate as you say, I don't really see a point in it happening, because it would be set aside, "getting it right" wouldn't affect anything else so i don't see the point, at least the way I think of it.
Secondly
IF you are looking at the way time and matter behave according to physics (I've actually brought this up to my physics professor and long ... long discussions on this) the interlacing of time, distance, and decay are tightly woven together. by law of Einstein's theory of relativity.The worlds spun and seasons passed, but the Dark Tower was timeless. It generated time.
Short description - The faster you go, the faster "everything else around you" seems to go. ex: if you were going the speed of light you wouldn't age but your twin brother will age Y*C amount of time relative to how long you were traveling at the speed of light. lemme say that better... after you come out of light speed you will not have aged at all, because according to YOU it was only a few seconds, although your twin brother will have aged 20 years.
anyway i'll get to the point The faster you go, the longer it takes for you to atomically decay, the slower you go, the faster it takes to atomically decay. So something that is the Nexus of all worlds, all universes, and all time, and the point at which everything spins, would have to be traveling a distance of 0units/ps (True zero speed, not relative). Which if you were to do the math what ever was in the middle(the tower) would disintegrate in a matter of less than a millisecond, basically instantly. So basically what ever is in the middle has to be made up of something that has NO ATOMIC DECAY. (which is, as far as we know doesn't exist, but theoretically possible, and also this is a fiction book)
So this quote to me says that the tower simply has NO atomic Decay.The worlds spun and seasons passed, but the Dark Tower was timeless. It generated time.
The only other way this would work, which would obliterate everything i just said would be that the nexus itself is also in motion, BUT if that were true, the nexus would have to be traveling at a much higher speed than what is spinning around it because of its timeless properties. so that doesn't really work
of coarse, in this world there is Magic, and as we know, the prim, so existing out of time could simply be magic.
Honestly I've only seen it once, I will have to watch it again before I post in that thread, I was just thinking about the bunny mask lol.Check out the Donnie Darko thread bumbler. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I still don't even think he picks Eddie, Suze and Jake each time, let alone the same ones. I still see nothing indicating the loops have any necessary commonality other than Roland. They could, I certainly concede that, but I don't see as how they necessarily do.
Bumbler - the time frame within the bubble wouldn't be the same sequence playing over and over. It's more like removing 19 years (that's just a random number) from a timeline and letting the years expire and then roll back to year one again. There will never be more or less time within the bubble, but what is key is that every living thing within the bubble is completely free to act differently each time.
I like thinking of the time bubble like the gingerbread house that Sheemie created for Dinky, Ted, and himself to discuss things off the radar of the low men.
Yes! You used that analogy before and I'd forgotten...it's entirely perfectly expressed that way
So if it is the same Eddie, Jake and Suze (and Oy) every time that's a pretty bleak existence for them to be locked into to being Roland's tools for however long it takes Roland to figure out whatever it is he's supposed to figure out to get himself released from the bubble, or if he is eternally in the bubble, that is a exponentially more bleak existence for the tet. An eternity of being drawn to their deaths and whatever you want to call what Suze got as ending. I can see it being vaguely acceptable to Suze but it seems less than promising for the rest. I hope they don't have the same deja vu as Roland because if they became aware that they were stuck in such a loop like Sisyphus and his boulder it would provide an existential crisis.
I think Roland is the only one to ever have the moment of awareness - as he's the only one to ever reach the top of the Tower. There could be something in that...
There certainly could be. King allowed for most interpretations to be perfectly valid.
The existential implications for the tet if they were aware of such a thing intrigue me.
The Dark Tower is the nexus of all spaces and times, but each version of the Tower is meant for one person. As the Talisman was for Jack, so too was the Tower for Roland. So maybe given how the Tower tracked all moments of Roland's life, everywhere he had ever been, it is at least for Roland the nexus of all his space and time. So maybe if you entered it, it would be your life all over again. Moreover, I think that may be Gan's gift, that divine feat that no one otherwise gets, 'the cosmic do-over.'
If you don't stand true, you'll never get anywhere near close enough to pet my dog.
I personally respectfully disagree, I'm not saying that it wasn't different for CK for sure, but I think that it was still "rolands" tower. Maybe you are puting it a little bit too simply than you really wanted to, but all of that for just a cosmic do-over really makes the plot of everything relating to saving the beams, and saving Stephen King all a big waste of book.
Generally, in most other stories if you are questing to reach a goal for yourself, such as a cosmic do-over it is filled with trials for you that simply want you to stop. Saving the entire multi-verse is kind of big, and in my opinion, that is what the quest is about, to save the tower in every world.
I suppose, you could say the "gift" was a reward for saving the tower, but that was never Roland's quest, it was merely to reach the top.
Also the quote "Oh, no!" he screamed. "Please, not again! Have pity! Have mercy!" right as he goes through the door.
Dunno about you, but that is never what goes through my mind when I get a gift unless it is socks... and you would think that if God, or Destiny were to give you a gift, it would be better than socks....
You know I believe its a book about the existential conscience of America. I really do. It is bleak and depressing, but its perfectly in line with Browning and Eliot. Its a perfect ode to the Wastelands and Childe Roland. I wish more people knew these works well enough to see the immense thematic overlaps.
I just finished the series last night. I think he looped back to his own world(As to say I don't believe he has to save the tower in every world). I think the horn is more important for us the readers to know that it could be different. I believe the loop can be ended but as to how and why I'm not sure.
Through out the story the tower was made to seem like this great and good thing at the nexus of everything but as he was climbing the tower I began to not feel that way. However I like the idea of the tower having an "issue" with all the blood shed in it's name, it makes me feel like the tower is good, the way I was lead to believe through the stories.
Couple of questions I have about the loops are, how does it affect the Keystone World? Does the Keystone World loop with Roland? Do ALL the worlds loop with Roland? Maybe he is in another world and each world has it's own Keystone World America-side. That would kind of clear that up. But more issues come from that. Jake, Eddie and Suze weren't from the Keystone World, so they could be pulled from anywhere fine, but, there was only one SK just like there was only one DT and the books were written. But presumably this all happened before so...
I thought at one point it said the CK couldn't get into the tower without Roland's gun(s) but he clearly DID get in. So why did he go out to the balcony? Why did the CK see Roland's stuff int he tower? Because he was the one who ultimately made to the top?
I have two theories on ending the loop. One, keeping the ka-tet and realizing that's more important than the tower BUT an issue there is that one of the tet died saving the beam, no beam, no tower, therefore maybe, no universe. So then how could he keep the tet and cry off the tower? By the time the beams were safe the tet was broken. Then again at the end it said Patrick represented ALL of those who died for the tower and presumably he lived, Roland looked out for him.
The other theory would have been to completely destroy the CK, maybe shoot those eyes?
So did I kill this thread?
no you didn't kill the thread. the site was down for a little and sometimes threads can go a couple of days with nothing new going on.
be patient, visit some other threads, introduce yourself (if you haven't already). drop by the castle for something to eat (or drink).
someone will post something, have no fear gunslinger.
Wow, what a great post. Right on.
I'd like to hear how you respond to many of the threads we frequent here in DT7.
Well, what is a "world" anyway?Where to begin......If ALL worlds loop with Roland, we'd presumably be there now.
I think that you also seem the type to be as interested as I am in discussing the Folklore & Mythology of the series, like it says on Town Commons .
Might be time to add some new topics.
please link --> The prisoner of the...
Again, eloquent. You have a real way of getting to key points of the logic in few words.
Favorite Quote of mine
That's a theory we talked about back when thedarktower.net was functional.
Wow, what a great post. Right on.
I'd like to hear how you respond to many of the threads we frequent here in DT7.
Well, what is a "world" anyway?Where to begin...
I think that you also seem the type to be as interested as I am in discussing the Folklore & Mythology of the series, like it says on Town Commons .
Might be time to add some new topics.
please link --> The prisoner of the...
Again, eloquent. You have a real way of getting to key points of the logic in few words.
Favorite Quote of mine
That's a theory we talked about back when thedarktower.net was functional.
Hi Mike...long time no see! Is that an AC/DC reference in your sig?
All that's left of what we were is what we have become.
Confused. Very Much So. *Spoilers Rampant*
Okay, hello, I just finished book the seventh. I thought it was a disappointment really. Not that I had a problem with the ending or anything, that was a fine ending, and I can't really see it end another way. [Well, I briefly glimpsed a cliffhanger, sorta where Roland reaches the top of the Tower and cries out the names, a burst of light comes to him, and the book ends. I understand Stephen King would've been sick to do such an end though.]
I thought the book was quite dull, but that's besides the point.
When Roland is placed back in the deserts, does... Eh.... Existence rewind itself for him? Do Eddie, Jake, and Susannah go back to their respective time and locations in New York, Walter, the citizens of Lud, Tull, and the Wolves be reincarnated, and the Crimson King... Ummm. Redrawn into existence?! [I thought the erasing was incredibly lame too by the way =P]
Or is it simply another when of Roland's little chase? If then, where is the REAL Roland of that when? I dunno if this makes sense or not... Time travel is tough business =P When Jake went into Eddie's past, he saw a younger Eddie. I think should Eddie have gone to his past himself, he would've seen himself as well, as it's really an alternate reality with the same events, just happening again, or that's how I see it. So where's Roland?
If it's the case that everything's placed back into neat order for Roland to chase after the tower again, then everything revolves around Roland now?Or even if it's all alternate realities, what about Keystone Earth? Isn't the concept that it never rewinds, like the book suggests all of the events in the books keep doing? If that's the case, then there'd be no need to save Stephen King, no? And in the loops previous there'd have been no need either, no? Or does the Keystone Earth reassert itself based on Roland's loops as well? Does time never progress, just repeat itself to Roland's eternal quest?
I dunno, I just saw the entire loop thing as paradoxical. Exactly HOW can the same series of events happen so many times? I guess I can let all the dead people [Mordred, Walter, Crimson King, Father Callahan, Tull, Lud, Blaine, delah] slide as being reincarnated [Did the Tower just make them again in order to test Roland or something?] but I see some real problems with this whole repeating thing. =S Sure, I'm open to the loops changing over time, as do all things [Though the phrase 'ka is a wheel' arguably disagrees with that thesis] but... I dunno, I just don't see it happening.
Say, when Roland is again in the deserts, is the Tower safe again? Let's say it IS safe, due to the previous loop. Are the breakers breaking the beam? If so, then it's not really that safe, is it?
I'm sorry if this is just a jumble of words. I can't really organize my thoughts right now. =S And sorry again if it's supposed to be obvious. It's just confusing as heck to me.
Edit: Sorry if this is discussed in another topic, I wasn't quite able to track such a topic down. =S Especially because most of them are 10+ pages long...
http://www.thedarktower.org/palaver/...ead.php?t=1778
Check this link out. This is our in depth discussion of all things regarding the end of the series!
And the reason we have such lengthy discussions about it is because the answer is NOT obvious.
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There are a ton of other threads out there that you might get some thoughts from. I assume this thread will be merged with one them eventually. There are threads which deal with each book. So one concerning DT VII may give you some food for thought. off hand, I don't recall all the other thread names but one you might want to read is called....So the Horn...hey lets stop a Sec... something like that.
if I recall the book discussions are in the "Baronies" forum. I could be wrong though
Good Luck!!
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63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
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The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
I love how SK's books are able to be interpreted differently...
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Merging
I know the Loop thread is long, but I summarised a few pages back, so please take a look and join in
its not a loop once its finished
The premise that I see to the "repeating his path" is thus:
A few paragraphs later the voice (Ka, Gan, The TowerHe saw and understood at once. the knowledge falling upon him in a hammer blow, hot as the sun of the desert that was the apotheosis of all deserts.
How many times had he climbed these stairs only to to find himself peeled back, curved back, turned back?
Not to the beginning (when things might have been changed and time's curse lifted) but to that moment in the Mohaine Desert when he had finally understood that his thoughtless, question less quest would ultimately succeed.
Sai King used Browning's poem in many places to form the story and the last stanza tells us the answer (in my mind).
There they stood, ranged along the hillsides, met
To view the last of me, a living frame
For one more picture! In a sheet of flame
I saw them and I knew them all. And yet
Dauntless the slug-horn to my lips I set,
And blew. 'Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came.'
I take this as saying that the true end, the correct end is for Roland
to blow the horn of Eld at the tower after he calls the names of those he
lost.
Think of rolands quest as this, He is repeating the same time period over and over so the only version anyone remembers will be the final one. Its like watching a movie, it took many more times to make the movie then what you see but you only are shown the end results, or a save game in a video game.
Just my view of it all and If I have repeated someone's Theory then It was by accident , say true.
Commala come come
my story now is done
all the foes of men and rose
have fallen ,the day is won..........this time...
Sounds really trivial >.> but may be true, who knows
Makes Gan sound like too much of a ***Hole... Oh, you didn't blow the horn!!! Try Again!
lol
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