Selling items via the site/ iTrader beta testing

[Randall Flagg]

I have been thinking about this quite a bit lately.
We have an incredible community here that buys and sells SK items without any fees (International currency exchanges excepted).
The success depends on both parties meeting expectations.
On ebay; as it should be, the responsibility lies with the seller. If the buyer is unhappy with the delivered item, the seller has to fix it, or in most cases be at fault and the buyer gets refunded.
Our site saves money for both parties (seller-no fees, buyer-lower price), but on the rare occasions a member here screws someone, there is little or no recourse.
The member feels screwed (they were), and the site suffers (greatly).
Obviously we can never have 100% (two people already fucked that up) satisfaction.
Unlike ebay, the site receives no commission for sales that we were a conduit for.

The sky isn't falling (yet), but I am considering options that result in both parties being satisfied, but also yield something for the site.
Of course this being the internet, many will say that it all should be "free", but someone has to pay the electricity/gas/water/IP hosting/ISP etc.

Cogent thoughts please.

[Roseannebarr]

i personally like the fact that as a community we can buy and sell here without paying a fee. I would like to think that this is benefit for being part of this wonderful, knowledgeable community.

I would maybe come up with a policy about buying and selling for new (and or all) members to discourage bad behaviour - maybe a policy or guidelines for the community to buy and sell. expectations and guidelines for buying and selling. what is expected of the buyer and the seller. and maybe limit those who have not been around for very long from doing any kind of trading/selling.

if you are looking for ideas to raise funds to pay for the electricity/gas/water?ip hosting etc... i would suggest an annual fundraiser similar to the Haven Foundation. I have spent numerous hours on this site and would be happy to bid on a few items to support this site. I have complemented you and others numerous times for the info that i found on the site! It has proven to be invaluable in improving my SK collection and knowledge.

I will never (i know i should never say never) sell anything, but i sure have spent my share of money buying and trading! I have had no problems yet! But i am dealing with 'known" members (i tend to look at the # posts and their frequency on the site before dealing)

I will have to look up the word cogent. not sure if i met your requirements on my thoughts.

[Randall Flagg]

I didn't mean for members to infer that they need to pay or fund raise for the site (for utilities). The point was that everyone (people in general), wants 100% protection, yet pay $0 for the privilege; then when something goes awry, the thief benefits, but everyone else suffers.

[cit74]

Would it be possible to keep a thread that just listed members ratings - in terms of both seller/buyer - similar to an eBay % - based on others input from past experiences. That way people could look at this list to get an idea of the persons reliability. There might be people who have had problems in the past - but are making amends and this could be reflected in the ratings. Also that would mean members would have to add feedback in the thread to update said ratings.

As for the monetary portion I can't speak for that now.

[Fsmdr]

I don't think it reflects on this site in any way if buyers got burned. We all know that we buy and sell at our own risk anywhere. I've been ripped off twice from members here, but it will not stop me from trading/buying/selling here. Just have to use caution when dealing with others whom we have never dealt with before. I think everyone here have benefited a lot more than whatever that we have lost.

What about an annual flat fee for using the site to buy and sell?. So let's say if I plan to advertise on classified, I should have paid my annual fee for it?. It will be easy to track. Just throwing ideas around.

I think the guideline idea is great too!.

[carlosdetweiller]

The site seems to work pretty well just as it is for buying and selling between members. I would recommend no changes. We all accept (or should anyway, IMO) that we can't be 100% protected from everything all the time. If one member rips off another member it is unfortunate but the feedback posted on this site should be enough to prevent future problems with that member. I think you are about to open a can of worms here that you might regret. And likely to be more trouble than it is worth considering the relatively few bad transactions that we have heard about.

[Kingfan24]

Coming from someone who was a little to fervent in his pursuit of King early on this site - I would agree with Cit. I never scammed anyone or cost anyone money - for those of you who don't know I backed out of a few deals when I was known as Langoleer. I have worked hard to regain my reputation - but I think a "% of good vs. bad feedback" would be nice.

Also if the seller did feel generous he could kick in a donation to the site - maybe that gives them an entry to the HF prize drawings (limit one entry?).

[Patrick]

I tend to agree with Bob on this.

[Scoogs]

I agree with Bob and Patrick.

Are there any add ons for the forum software that would add a feedback feature?
I sometimes use the forums at http://forum.blu-ray.com and whatever software they use has that feature:

[tippy4]

The site seems to work pretty well just as it is for buying and selling between members. I would recommend no changes. We all accept (or should anyway, IMO) that we can't be 100% protected from everything all the time. If one member rips off another member it is unfortunate but the feedback posted on this site should be enough to prevent future problems with that member. I think you are about to open a can of worms here that you might regret. And likely to be more trouble than it is worth considering the relatively few bad transactions that we have heard about.

I tend to agree with Bob on this.

I agree with Bob and Patrick.

As do I.

To put it far less eloquently, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There are no guarantees in life, and we as adults should be aware of that.

[evilash]

As someone who was recently ripped off to the tune of over $300 by a member here (hopefully a banned one at this point) I hold absolutely no ill will towards this site. I agree with the philosophy that life has no guarantees and will continue to deal with the great people here. A system that rates buyers and sellers would be great but it still is not a guarantee that something "bad" won't happen.

[sentinel]

I also agree with Bob. The site seems to police itself very well. It's a major value of the site and the integrity of 99% of the members.

[Merlin1958]

All of you have some very good points. My two cents are twofold:

1. I have always thought that the members here should be able to contribute to the site (if they can and are willing) in some way to help defray costs to keep the site running. I have floated the "Ka-tet of 19" idea that TDT.Net used to have as a great example, but I do not know the extent of the effort involved or if it can even be done with this software. Jerome, I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we greatly appreciate your monetary contribution to us all and the extent of your efforts on our behalf. Let us help out though on a strictly voluntary basis.

2. It would seem that "post count" would be the primary "feedback/rating" tool at our disposal. Perhaps a deposit of $50-100 for all sellers/buyers (If you could place some sort of certification on the member profile) under a prescribed number of posts/member years? The deposit could be refundable at some point or just a one time fee to come here and sell/buy items. Sort of a TDT.Org seal of approval. At the very least it would allow for at least a partial remedy for any hurt members and also make the member a little more cautious about screwing anyone here b/c they would lose the deposit.

I rarely sell anything, but I have purchased many items from folks here. I know I will never get a raw deal from a lot of you guys like AKC, Shannon, Bob, Ralph, Cook etc etc. In my mind the control/safety issues are focused on newer members only. Anyway, I hope this post helps out in some fashion.

[Jimimck]

Agree with the bulk of the statements above. The benefit of the classifieds thread is you can sell here cheaper than eBay etc, but the real benefit from a buying pint of view is that you can buy cheaper too.

We should all recognise buying outside of eBay/ABE comes with risks, and to buy from this site should be done in acceptance of that. I don't see it as this sites responsibility to try and protect buyers, apart from banning known problem makers etc.

When I purchased my signed 11/22/63 and Gunslinger from members here, both of them suggested I post photos of the books for guidance on the signature and quality/value of the books. To me, that is better protection for me than buying from an unknown seller on eBay, and for the bulk of sellers here, I would gladly take the small risk of not being covered by any guarantee etc....

[Merlin1958]

Agree with the bulk of the statements above. The benefit of the classifieds thread is you can sell here cheaper than eBay etc, but the real benefit from a buying pint of view is that you can buy cheaper too.

We should all recognise buying outside of eBay/ABE comes with risks, and to buy from this site should be done in acceptance of that. I don't see it as this sites responsibility to try and protect buyers, apart from banning known problem makers etc.

When I purchased my signed 11/22/63 and Gunslinger from members here, both of them suggested I post photos of the books for guidance on the signature and quality/value of the books. To me, that is better protection for me than buying from an unknown seller on eBay, and for the bulk of sellers here, I would gladly take the small risk of not being covered by any guarantee etc....

Another great benefit of buying here is that you can trust in the quality of the item purchased and that it will be packed and shipped properly. No small consideration. Again, I tend to purchase strictly from the, pardon the phrase, "Old Timers" on this site. However, I have purchased from "Kingfan24" and always been pleased. Even though he is a PITA "Reds" fan and cheaper than a $2 hooker!!! LOL LOL J/K

[Sir_Boomme]

I'm thinking if someone screws someone over... at least they can only do it one time here as opposed to multiple times via ebay. once the screwer is outed... they will have a hard time screwing anyone else.
of course... for gross negligence... plead the case before the DT staff and let them decide wether to ban from further sales (or the site).

[Sir_Boomme]

like ari... screwing me by offering me deals that I just can't pass up.... that dude is a fiend
.

[Merlin1958]

like ari... screwing me by offering me deals that I just can't pass up.... that dude is a fiend
.

You're not really wearing a "thong" are you? You depraved, bastard!!! LOL LOL LOL

[Sir_Boomme]

like ari... screwing me by offering me deals that I just can't pass up.... that dude is a fiend
.

You're not really wearing a "thong" are you? You depraved, bastard!!! LOL LOL LOL

yes... and I have it on backwards today...

[Merlin1958]

like ari... screwing me by offering me deals that I just can't pass up.... that dude is a fiend
.

You're not really wearing a "thong" are you? You depraved, bastard!!! LOL LOL LOL

yes... and I have it on backwards today...

Interesting....

[Sir_Boomme]

currently experiencing major man camel toe....

[Merlin1958]

currently experiencing major man camel toe....

TMI, dude. TMI LOL LOL LOL More like a "plum" tree, no? LOL LOL


BACK ON TOPIC, FOLKS!!!! THE "THREAD POLICE" HAVE SPOKEN!!!

[Randall Flagg]

I agree with Bob and Patrick.

Are there any add ons for the forum software that would add a feedback feature?
I sometimes use the forums at http://forum.blu-ray.com and whatever software they use has that feature:

I am looking at that software. Thanks.
The form would look similar to this:

[jhanic]

Looks good to me!

John

[TwistedNadine]

Ditto to all of the below.
I would not be opposed to a feedback form but to be honest I probably wouldnt leave any feedback unless I was extremely pissed and/or ripped off. I do a fair amount of dealing with members behind the scenes that would never get feedback on the site unless, as stated, I was ripped off and unable to rectify with the member directly.

The site seems to work pretty well just as it is for buying and selling between members. I would recommend no changes. We all accept (or should anyway, IMO) that we can't be 100% protected from everything all the time. If one member rips off another member it is unfortunate but the feedback posted on this site should be enough to prevent future problems with that member. I think you are about to open a can of worms here that you might regret. And likely to be more trouble than it is worth considering the relatively few bad transactions that we have heard about.

I tend to agree with Bob on this.

I agree with Bob and Patrick.

As do I.

To put it far less eloquently, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There are no guarantees in life, and we as adults should be aware of that.

I don't think it reflects on this site in any way if buyers got burned. We all know that we buy and sell at our own risk anywhere. I've been ripped off twice from members here, but it will not stop me from trading/buying/selling here. Just have to use caution when dealing with others whom we have never dealt with before. I think everyone here have benefited a lot more than whatever that we have lost.

As someone who was recently ripped off to the tune of over $300 by a member here (hopefully a banned one at this point) I hold absolutely no ill will towards this site. I agree with the philosophy that life has no guarantees and will continue to deal with the great people here. A system that rates buyers and sellers would be great but it still is not a guarantee that something "bad" won't happen.

I also agree with Bob. The site seems to police itself very well. It's a major value of the site and the integrity of 99% of the members.