True, but at some point King changed his mind as clearly evidenced by the numbering and the "R" naming of the volumes, no?Originally Posted by pablo
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True, but at some point King changed his mind as clearly evidenced by the numbering and the "R" naming of the volumes, no?
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28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
It seems to me that for this vote, we should stick with novels (as the vote is on the best NOVELS of all time)
Even in a series of novels like TDT or ASoIaF or Chronicles of Narnia, each part of the series is a complete novel.
(LOtR would be an exception as it was written as one novel and split into three for publication reasons only)
I would like to see another vote in the future on best series; but for now we could nominate our favorite novels from the series already listed.
...my two cents.
I agree with ladysai.
Personally I consider a series to just be a collection of novels. TDT included. You could easily not read The Gunslinger, or you could read Wizard & Glass separate (as about 90%) of the story is different from the one taking place throughout the series. I think if we judge series in with novels they'll get an unfair advantage since there's so much more to judge them on. That's just my opinion though, and I'll be happy with whatever you choose to do.
The central characters of the Chronicles of Narnia are all together in the final book. They meet at the home of the protagonist of the fifth book to retell the stories of all of the earlier books to each other, as they've been doing for years. Hard to see how that differs significantly from the W&G storytelling or "Telling Tales" in WotC.
But I kind of wish I hadn't been asked about my personal view. The more I think about typical narrative structure, the more I remember why I just don't like fiction so much any more.
After hearing people's perspectives, I'm in favor of separating series into a different competition.
I haven't joined in on the discussion of novel vs series, but I find it rather interesting.
I would like to nominate Great Expectations.
I don't really think it is a matter of wether you "could" read any series of novels as a stand alone, but more a matter of a continuing underlying and over-riding story line in the case of TDT. They were written in installments, yes, but are intended to read as a single story. Now, "The DaVinci Code" is a single novel that introduces a character that has further adventures, but each story is complete. Hard to argure that "Roland" reaching the Tower is not the central underkying theme, IMHO
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
And with that, I believe we may have reached the formal "voting" phase of this venture.I don't really think it is a matter of wether you "could" read any series of novels as a stand alone, but more a matter of a continuing underlying and over-riding story line in the case of TDT. They were written in installments, yes, but are intended to read as a single story. Now, "The DaVinci Code" is a single novel that introduces a character that has further adventures, but each story is complete. Hard to argure that "Roland" reaching the Tower is not the central underkying theme, IMHO
What is the overall number of nominations so far, Jean?
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
I SECOND THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV
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The dark tower is a complete novel, each picks up where the previous ended. It is one novel in parts.
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Wonderful in it's succinctness!! Agreed!!!
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Speaking of which, I nominate "The Godfather", Mario Puzo!!!
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
I think that if you could read the first installment (or any other installment) of a series and be completely satisfied, and have a solid ending that is not dependent on future installments for resolution, then it is a novel. If none of the installments can stand alone then it is one long novel. I think that this qualifies, most definitively, Lord of the Rings and TDT. I've not read any of the other series in question except an incomplete reading of the Harry Potter series, which I am less sure should qualify. However, I feel like the HP series is one of the great pieces of literature of our time and should thus have a rightful place on the list. But, then if it should pass the test, then I think that most series should be found acceptable.
Sloth Love Chunk
I'm not sure you know what the word "theme" means. What you mention is part of the plot. It's EASY to argue that no prosaic event can be an underlying theme. Instead, what the central theme might be is the question "What does climbing the Dark Tower mean?" Is it because TDT shows the same supposed individual in the so-called linear time that this series is perceived as one story while other series are not? How about The Foundation? One or many?
Totally subjective. I might be completely satisfied with some, even when you're not. Matters of opinion can't serve as standard definitions.
Sorry for not accurately stating my post in a manner subject to critique and correction. My post is best summed up by, 'Mattrick". "Foundation" was a "Trilogy" despite the follow up fan requested novels. IMHO Of course.I'm not sure you know what the word "theme" means. What you mention is part of the plot. It's EASY to argue that no prosaic event can be an underlying theme. Is it because TDT shows the same supposed individual in the so-called linear time that this series is perceived as one story while other series are not? How about The Foundation? One or many?
Spoiler:
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
Uh, not sure what you mean by this, either. But no offense was intended.
It's too easy to say TDT is different by just looking at TDT. You have to look at other examples to show just how they're not the same.Do you think the trilogy is one story and the follow up novels are different stories? Or is it all one story? Or is the trilogy different stories, too?
I'm way too tired for this right now. You can be exhausting, Mike and seem to delight in highlighting this in regard to my posts. Go pick a debate with someone else for now? I'll be back when I have had more sleep. Cool?Uh, not sure what you mean by this, either. But no offense was intended.
It's too easy to say TDT is different by just looking at TDT. You have to look at other examples to show just how they're not the same.Do you think the trilogy is one story and the follow up novels are different stories? Or is it all one story? Or is the trilogy different stories, too?
Spoiler:
28 in 23 (?)!!!!
63 in '23!!!!!!!!!!
My Collection: https://www.thedarktower.org/palaver...ion-Merlin1958
The Houston Astros cheated Major League Baseball from 2017-18!!!! Is that how we teach our kids to play the game now?????
You don't have to post just to say that you're not going to say anything until later. You could just say nothing until you have slept on it and that would be fine.
I always thought of the first three Foundations as a trilogy, unlike the first three Dune books, which I've never heard of as the "Dune Trilogy". And it's commonly sold in one volume...
Anyway, there are so many books here I've heard of, but need to read. Think I have my fall reading list.
I was going to nominate A Remembrance of Things Past, but then that would be the multivolume issue again, so I'll go with Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier.
And second Alice in Wonderland.
I haven't nominated or voted (yet) but it's unfair to other writers that a series of books is considered one title. Why should King get a pass and have thousands of pages to tell a story and drive a point home? Yes, it's a series of books that works best as a whole but for something like this, you need a level playing field. FWIW, the original The Gunslinger can be a complete stand alone with a dark, ominuous, open-ended ending. You could also pick up The Drawing without reading The Gunslinger. Ditto W&G and King himself said you can read The Wind without prior knowledge of DT. It says so in the book.
Plus, if I remember right, it wasn't until book V that he started saying the "Arguments" weren't enough with which to jump in at that point. But as a novel and not a series, I'd probably be harder on TDT anyway. I'm not entirely sure that great length and cross-over books are even necessarily positives.
Seconded
The wastelands, wizard and glass wolves of the calla and song of susannah have no direct endings and two dont tell andly specific, isolated story to be considered anything but a piece of a larger novel. It is one novel, designed to be one large story from the get go. Don't think of it as a series but instead as one novel written in installments, as many of the greatest novels have been...just not over this period of time. Dexter is a series, TDT is not.
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I think Pablo mentioned this earlier, but The Gunslinger was never written to be a part of a larger novel. Or am I mistaken? So because he decides later on to make it into an ongoing story, does this make it one large novel? My opinion is no. It was published as separate novels over a long period of time. He hadn't even written the whole thing when he started it. And do you guys consider The Wind Through the Keyhole to be part of The Dark Tower? I haven't read it so can't comment, but who's to say he won't publish more in the future. I see it as an ongoing series of novels. You could compare this to The Green Mile, which I think is one novel, but it was just split up when published.
A lot of different book series use cliffhangers and continue from volume to volume, even some written by multiple writers. And it's still debatable, (if not having a complete story or "real" ending makes each volume not a novel) whether TDT as a whole has a "complete" story or good enough ending.
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