Violence, Pop Culture/modern society: Is there a correlation?

[Brice]

I fear there is no normal and that sanity has always been on shaky ground, Heather.

Ok, here's my opinion (and some may not like it...or might even be pissed by it in ways), but I think the problem is us...not us actually, but the big US...our society. I think we do create this...and all the sort of things like it. I think we are diseased or sick. I think our culture (no, not pop culture) or modern society produces these things and I think it's been going this way a long time. And I'm not sure there's an easy fix. I do not think these people are weak minded (anymore than the average of us at least). It's like a disease of the soul. Now some really smart shrinks will come up with some fancy name for what's wrong with this guy and there will be books and much public discussion that comforts the rest of us into believing that we have a grip on what he did. We don't. I think the real question to ask is what about our society produces these type of people. It's not music, movies, video games or whatever and it's also not the parents. It's something about us as a whole. Maybe I'm fucked up for thinking this way, but I have for a long time.

When I read this I had one question. Have we as a civilization gotten better or stayed the same? Have we gotten better? Take the late 17 century, to be more specific, the Ripper case. The murders became so famous that it garnered a world wide media frenzy. People wanted to know if the murderer had been captured or if he had struck again? Journalists were frustrated by the unwillingness of the CID to reveal details of their investigation to the public, and so resorted to writing reports that were the equivalent of today's tabloids and caused one person to be arrested falsely because of their reporting. I guess what I am saying is should we consider ourselves better than what we were in 1888 or are we the same and just have evolved industriously and made things better to live with the way that we behave and with the choices that we have made?

Funny how you asked if we've gotten better or stayed the same, but left out the possibility that we're worse.

Sort of random, but did you all see that sick fuck in court today? What the hell is happening to us all? My God!!!

I missed this.

[Brice]

Oh, and I'll likely sound like a dick for saying this, but I have no interest in Holmes' state of mind or sanity. Here's how my train of thought runs...

crime (kill people)--->no good reason--->punishment

[Mattrick]

Caring about his state of mind gives him the attention he craves and opens the floodgates for more of these incidents to occur.

[pathoftheturtle]

Oh, and I'll likely sound like a dick for saying this, but I have no interest in Holmes' state of mind or sanity. Here's how my train of thought runs...

crime (kill people)--->no good reason--->punishment

Not exactly like a dick. Unless dick means instinctive reactionary aggressor. Well Okay, I guess that is the meaning... Sorry. AWKward...

Caring about his state of mind gives him the attention he craves and opens the floodgates for more of these incidents to occur.

Assuming a mind able to grasp those consequences.

[Brice]

Oh, and I'll likely sound like a dick for saying this, but I have no interest in Holmes' state of mind or sanity. Here's how my train of thought runs...

crime (kill people)--->no good reason--->punishment

Not exactly like a dick. Unless dick means instinctive reactionary aggressor. Well Okay, I guess that is the meaning... Sorry. AWKward...

Caring about his state of mind gives him the attention he craves and opens the floodgates for more of these incidents to occur.

Assuming a mind able to grasp those consequences.

Okay, IF I didn't sound like a dick before I think I'll go ahead and cross that threshold ...when I say I'm not reactionary or instinctive at all in this stance. Whether you agree or not I've put quite a bit of thought into it over the years and I've come to that possibly simplistic seeming conclusion. Choose to do bad things...get punished. Why means nothing. Nor does your mental state. Or that you're three and mentally handicapped. Now I'm 100% anti-death penalty, but I'm all for punishing those who do wrong. I'm a bit more forgiving and pretty well okay with considering such things as the state of mind if we're talking a lesser crime, but we're talking mass murder here. Now again, I'm not advocating killing anyone, but I don't really care about his state of mind when he fucking ended or devastated the states of mind of so many others. I don't really care if fifty gang members raped his mom's corpse in front of him immediately before this; he killed a bunch of people and hurt more. Unless someone can demonstrate he was forced to do so by someone other than his own mind or that there was some vast conspiracy (as I've already heard suggested sadly) he's guilty and deserves some form of punishment. What form; I'm not sure, but I am a million percent sure he doesn't belong in society at least until he can take it back. After that I'm more than happy to at least entertain his possible reintegration into society or whatever.

[pathoftheturtle]

You think incaceration=punishment?
Maybe I'm just hung up on that word. Because that's what I find simplistic. The structure of your formula -commit crime>>receive correction- I have no problem with. But punishment sounds pointless and emotional.

[pathoftheturtle]

You think incaceration=punishment?
Maybe I'm just hung up on that word. Because that's what I find simplistic. The structure of your formula -commit crime>>receive correction- I have no problem with. But punishment sounds pointless and emotional.

[Brice]

You think incaceration=punishment?
Maybe I'm just hung up on that word. Because that's what I find simplistic. The structure of your formula -commit crime>>receive correction- I have no problem with. But punishment sounds pointless and emotional.

See to my thinking that semantic difference is a nonissue. I mean how often would you say your average violent criminal is "corrected". Punishment IS what it is; more so government sanctioned retribution. The goal isn't correction imo, nor should it be. You correct a mistake; not a willfull act. I'm gonna' say this a little funny, but I basically mean it too...if he tripped, fell, and accidentally boobytrapped his house before going on a maniacal rampage by all means let's correct it. If not let's punish him. He's kinda' been a little naughty.

[pathoftheturtle]

Starting on 9/11 I said again and again "No, we are not at war; it's terroism. There's a difference." But we went into Iraq anyway because people don't care, and lost bin Laden for years.
You say the state of his mind doesn't matter, but apparently that is becase you think you know the answer already. Free will is your foregone conclusion.
Again I ask, what good does retribution do? You're right that in our system reform is hardly ever real, but maybe THAT is why we're such a violent country.

[Hannah]

First, I have to say that I think his state of mind (mentally ill versus completely fucking sane) is very important but only because this will determine whether or not he gets the death penalty, which is allowed in CO in cases of multiple murders. I also just want to throw my two cents in, I believe strongly that societal indifference is contributing to acts of violence in America. Indifference to the poor, the needy, the socially awkward, the sad, the lonely, the mentally ill, the bullied, etc. all contribute to what I feel is a generally calloused society. I'm not saying everyone doesn't care, just that generally speaking our government and society projects indifference to the suffering of its citizens.

I also feel that another contributing factor is our tendency to prescribe experimental (or even established) medication for mental illness without ample supervison. But that's probably a completely different discussion...

[Brice]

First, I have to say that I think his state of mind (mentally ill versus completely fucking sane) is very important but only because this will determine whether or not he gets the death penalty, which is allowed in CO in cases of multiple murders. I also just want to throw my two cents in, I believe strongly that societal indifference is contributing to acts of violence in America. Indifference to the poor, the needy, the socially awkward, the sad, the lonely, the mentally ill, the bullied, etc. all contribute to what I feel is a generally calloused society. I'm not saying everyone doesn't care, just that generally speaking our government and society projects indifference to the suffering of its citizens.

I also feel that another contributing factor is our tendency to prescribe experimental (or even established) medication for mental illness without ample supervison. But that's probably a completely different discussion...

The heart of everything I was trying to say earlier is right here I think.

Nail hit on the motherfuckin' head!

*hands all the internetz over to the winner*

[pathoftheturtle]

First, I have to say that I think his state of mind (mentally ill versus completely fucking sane) is very important but only because this will determine whether or not he gets the death penalty, which is allowed in CO in cases of multiple murders. I also just want to throw my two cents in, I believe strongly that societal indifference is contributing to acts of violence in America. Indifference to the poor, the needy, the socially awkward, the sad, the lonely, the mentally ill, the bullied, etc. all contribute to what I feel is a generally calloused society. I'm not saying everyone doesn't care, just that generally speaking our government and society projects indifference to the suffering of its citizens.

I also feel that another contributing factor is our tendency to prescribe experimental (or even established) medication for mental illness without ample supervison. But that's probably a completely different discussion...

The heart of everything I was trying to say earlier is right here I think.

Nail hit on the motherfuckin' head!

*hands all the internetz over to the winner*

Me, too.

[Brice]

First, I have to say that I think his state of mind (mentally ill versus completely fucking sane) is very important but only because this will determine whether or not he gets the death penalty, which is allowed in CO in cases of multiple murders. I also just want to throw my two cents in, I believe strongly that societal indifference is contributing to acts of violence in America. Indifference to the poor, the needy, the socially awkward, the sad, the lonely, the mentally ill, the bullied, etc. all contribute to what I feel is a generally calloused society. I'm not saying everyone doesn't care, just that generally speaking our government and society projects indifference to the suffering of its citizens.

I also feel that another contributing factor is our tendency to prescribe experimental (or even established) medication for mental illness without ample supervison. But that's probably a completely different discussion...

The heart of everything I was trying to say earlier is right here I think.

Nail hit on the motherfuckin' head!

*hands all the internetz over to the winner*

Me, too.

Really I suspected this was a situation where we'd mostly agree. I think all or most of our arguments reduce to semantics. Sorry for the slow/lack of response earlier. Pesky life getting in the fuckin way of my internet time.

Now for something really disturbing related to the holmes thing:

http://gawker.com/5930565/why-james-...n-the-internet

[Hannah]

"Holmies." Fucking wow.

I'm kind of not surprised that this has sprung up so quickly. Serial killers always seem to develope a fan group. Attention seeking young people seem to make up a majority of the "Holmies."

An interesting collection of these fans posts on tumblr here:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthi...es-holmes-inte

yet another edit:

oh man. and this:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/th...as-40k-followe

[mystima]

next we will see a site where there will be lots of people putting bids on who wants to marry the guy....uhhh...

[Brice]

*runs to set up an ebay auction to sell James Holmes*

[mystima]

Interesting story on what one person believes the media has done to their dad.

The Brainwashing Of My Dad

[Kingfan24]

Interesting story on what one person believes the media has done to their dad.

The Brainwashing Of My Dad

okay but on the flip side, turn on the TV and you see the liberal agenda on almost every station.

[Merlin1958]

Interesting story on what one person believes the media has done to their dad.

The Brainwashing Of My Dad

okay but on the flip side, turn on the TV and you see the liberal agenda on almost every station.

I won't weigh in on either side, My opinions are my own. However, I will agree that the ENTIRE media needs to be held accountable. Left, Right and the middle. Seems to me that gone are the days of journalistic integrity and they have been replaced with the quest for rating and the almighty dollar (at least with the Network News and newspaper's). The liberals may be a bit more subtle than FOX news, but they are just as bad in the long run. It's ratings and revenue that drive the news these days. IMHO

[Joe315]

Every media group is guilty of this, not just the right leaning ones.

Besides, if Rush Limbaugh had as much influence as people claim he does, don't you think he'd be running the country at this point.

[Br!an]

Interesting story on what one person believes the media has done to their dad.

The Brainwashing Of My Dad

okay but on the flip side, turn on the TV and you see the liberal agenda on almost every station.

I turn on the TV and I see the corporate agenda for the most part.

I have to seek out foreign and independent news sources just to know what's going on.

[jhanic]

Interesting story on what one person believes the media has done to their dad.

The Brainwashing Of My Dad

okay but on the flip side, turn on the TV and you see the liberal agenda on almost every station.

I won't weigh in on either side, My opinions are my own. However, I will agree that the ENTIRE media needs to be held accountable. Left, Right and the middle. Seems to me that gone are the days of journalistic integrity and they have been replaced with the quest for rating and the almighty dollar (at least with the Network News and newspaper's). The liberals may be a bit more subtle than FOX news, but they are just as bad in the long run. It's ratings and revenue that drive the news these days. IMHO

Bill, have you ever watched MSNBC? They are about as subtle as an axe.

John

[Jon]

I used to rely on "The Russian Times" but now I hear several of their top reporters have left in protest.

And no, I am not referring to the gal that quit "Russia Today," Liz Wahl.

[Merlin1958]

Interesting story on what one person believes the media has done to their dad.

The Brainwashing Of My Dad

okay but on the flip side, turn on the TV and you see the liberal agenda on almost every station.

I won't weigh in on either side, My opinions are my own. However, I will agree that the ENTIRE media needs to be held accountable. Left, Right and the middle. Seems to me that gone are the days of journalistic integrity and they have been replaced with the quest for rating and the almighty dollar (at least with the Network News and newspaper's). The liberals may be a bit more subtle than FOX news, but they are just as bad in the long run. It's ratings and revenue that drive the news these days. IMHO

Bill, have you ever watched MSNBC? They are about as subtle as an axe.

John

To be honest, I stick to the "Network" stuff. Now, my wife, she goes for the "Cable Channels". In truth, I am beginning to question the validity of either. FWIW, I am a card carrying "Republican".