The Dark Tower Q&A - Ask a question, get an answer! *spoilers*

[Heather19]

Oh that's weird. Here's a direct link to the image.
http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/1268406.jpg

It looks really familiar but I couldn't remember if it was what was posted here or at .net But from Merlin and Lisa, sounds like that could be the one.

[Randall Flagg]

How about this:


One of the most common questions I get asked is "What other Stephen King books do I need to read to find out more about the Dark Tower?" and "What order should I read them in?"

Recently, I sat down and really gave these questions some thought. What I came up with is a roadmap for reading The Dark Tower. It shows in which order (I think) you should read King's other stories to best understand what's going on in the King Universe.

Reading the map is easy. Before you read any of the books listed, make sure you have finished the ones which point to it. This will make sure that you don't come across any spoilers and will understand references made to previous books. Start with The Gunslinger and work your way down the list following the arrows.

The numbers do NOT specify the order that you should read the books. They are just there as reference points for the explanations below.

You'll find that I've explained exactly how the books are connected to one another. Reading past the map itself will ruin the story for you if you haven't already read them. Read past the map at your own risk!




· As constant readers know, 19 comes to play a critical role in the revised edition of The Gunslinger and the last three Tower books. Bag of Bones is the first novel in which King highlights the importance of 19. In it, the number often appears throughout the text and helps Mike Noonan solve the mystery of Sarah Laughs.
· At the end of Eyes of the Dragon, Dennis and Thomas are last seen following the trail of Flagg. In The Drawing of the Three, Roland remembers the fall of Gilead and briefly seeing a creature that called itself Flagg. "Hot on his heels had come two young men who looked desperate and yet grim, men named Dennis and Thomas" (II.418).
· At the end of The Wastelands Flagg rescues the Tick-Tock Man from Ludd.
· The connection between Skeleton Crew and the Tower series has often been debated ever since King officially announced that the two are indeed connected.

Originally, my guess was the short story "The Man Who Would Not Shake Hands." The number 19 factors in (slightly) to the story. However, the more concrete connection is that it takes place in the same club as in "The Breathing Method." The Club has an "infinite" feel to it. It has hundreds and hundreds of shelves of books; one book is titled Breakers. Also, Stevens, the butler, has been around for many years and has not aged at all. This is erriely similar to the "long-timers" mentioned in Insomnia. What made me doubt this connection is that Different Seasons, which contains "The Breathing Method," is not listed by King as an officially connected.

Recently, we finally found out the answer (sort of). The connected story is "The Mist." Although how it connects is anyone's guess. I'm placing it next to Wizard and Glass and saying that they both contain thinnys.
· Wolves of the Calla tells the story of how Father Callahan found his way to the town of Calla Bryn Sturgis where he joins Roland's ka-tet.
· In Song of Susannah, Roland and Calvin Tower briefly discuss Roland's grandfather, Alaric Deschain.
"Of Alaric, aye," Roland said, "him of the red hair."
"I don't know anything about his hair, but I know why he
went to Garlan. Do you?"
"To slay a dragon."
"And did he?"
"No, he was too late. The last in that part of the world had
been slain by another king, one who was later murdered." (VI.197)

Roland is referring to the story of how King Roland of Delain slayed a dragon in Eyes of the Dragon before he was killed.
· Dinky Earnshaw from Everything's Eventual is a Breaker working for the Crimson King in The Dark Tower.
· These two books are mirror images of each other. Alter egos if you will. One can't be read without the other.
· It is one of many King novels which take place in Derry, Maine. There are lots of small connections as well. One of the larger ones is that the Turtle, the most important Beam Guardian, is mentioned quite often in It. Also, Stan says that "In this universe there might grow roses which sing," (p411) which alludes to the Rose in the vacant lot.
· Insomnia also takes place in Derry, Maine.
· While inside of the painting (which is really a doorway to another world), Rosie meets with Dorcas and Rose Madder. Dorcus says that she has seen "bodies on fire and heads by the hundreds poked onto poles along the streets of the City of Lud." Also, Rose Madder talks to her about ka.
· Both stories take place in the Desotoya Mountains. Also, the "doctor bugs" from Eluria speak the same language as Tak from Desperation.
· In Insomnia Ralph Roberts battles the Crimson King in order to save the life of Patrick Danville. In Hearts in Atlantis Ted Brautigan faces off against the Low Men - the Crimson King's henchmen. He also explains to Bobby about the Beams and Breakers.
· Black House is the sequel to The Talisman.
· During the palaver between Parkus, Jack, and Sophie in Black House, Parkus warns that they must be gone before nightfall so they can avoid the Little Sisters, who have built a tent nearby.
· A low man leaves the Buick 8 behind.
· Parkus explains to Jack about the Breakers, the Crimson King and his plan for destroying the Beams. These ideas were first written about in Hearts in Atlantis.
· Black House's information about the Beams, Breakers, and the Crimson King are further explained in Song of Susannah.
· This is the name King and Straub jokingly use to refer to the third book in Jack Sawyer's story. Straub has said that they have mapped out what happens to Jack in the third (and final) story, which takes place primarily in the Territories. However, there are no concrete plans for when (if) the book will be written.

[Merlin1958]

Excellent, Jerome!!! Yep that's it as I recall. Lock, stock & barrel. Worthy of an "en-biggened" version and a sticky somewhere?

YOU DA MAN!!!

[Harrald]

Outstanding! This is the chart I was lookin' for. I'll be able to plot out my reading list now. Since this is the second time through the DT series, I'll know what to look for in all the other books. Thanks to all of you for putting the effort in to finding this.

Regards,
Harrald

[pathoftheturtle]

Well, I don't find the idea that the significance of 19 has anything to do, really, with the series's "twist ending" to be very imaginative, but neither do I find it particularly realistic. I was actually referring to the element of metafiction -- not to be repetitive, but I still do think this comes from SK, not Roland, and I reckon that it'd be more profitable to look for clues from Bag of Bones than from DT7, anyway.

[Darkthoughts]

Well, we kind of know that 19 and 99 (being the numbers of Roland's two ka-tets), are from King and significant to him because of his accident - we learn that in SoS. But how he weaves it in to the story and other stories (such as BoB) is as an omen or portent of ill/bad gunky.

[Jean]

it also depends on whether we are talking about metafiction as fiction, or about the way it is created. 19 comes to the fabric of existence from King, but where does it come to King from? Apparently from it being Roland's 19th loop?

[Merlin1958]

it also depends on whether we are talking about metafiction as fiction, or about the way it is created. 19 comes to the fabric of existence from King, but where does it come to King from? Apparently from it being Roland's 19th loop?

Well Jean, I think its rather explicit that for King, as an author, it comes from "being 19" as in his forward's. Just MHO and I'm sticking to it. LOL

As for its meaning in the books, I tend to agree with your logic, but it is of course open to each individuals interpretation.

[pathoftheturtle]

Yeah, it must be subjective. Honestly, to me it has never been apparent. Or maybe my way of looking at it is just really wrong somehow: there sure seem to be a lot of you in agreement.

Anyway, you are are undoubtedly right about the two sides of metafiction, at least, Jean. I actually considered posing more complicated questions regarding the meaning of reality in my last post. If King's point had only been that fiction expresses real things, he could have stuck to his forwards and afterwards. Putting himself into the story forces us to also wonder about the reverse. In fact, he might have been saying that it was at 19 that he started this series because it turns out that the hero had already done it 18 times previously. Maybe. I just still find that so hard to swallow. I think it came in as a signal, probably originating somewhere else. I'll think about it some more... or, hey, come to think of it, this just might come up in The Wind Through the Keyhole. That would make sense, wouldn't it?

[Bad Karma]

Thank Ya, BIG BIG!

[Bev Vincent]

I think if I were to create a chart it would be somewhat different than that. For instance the connection from Little Sisters to Black House leads here to Song of Susannah, but it doesn't really make any sense to read LSoE in that context. Similarly, the crossover between Eyes of the Dragon and Drawing of the Three is obvious, but that's not the chronology. And Bag of Bones really connects better to Song of Susannah (Cara Laughs) than to The Gunslinger (via #19).

[Bad Karma]

Bev,

Love your work, and hope to see more. I totally agree ▲ with you 100%. I am working on a new format with popups and suggestions, hope to post here by Xmas...

[Bev Vincent]

You will see more...

[Bad Karma]

This thread, ask a question, get an answer...so here goes..

DT2 What happened to the TWO police revolvers Roland brought back with him through the Pusher Door as Jack Mort. "strapped around his waist under Jack's blue suit" are they every mentioned again? hmm...

[costanza]

Doesn't Roland, as Mort, strip down to his tighty whiteys and put the boxes of ammo and keflex in his underwear, crushing his balls as he runs with it in there, before he jumps in front of the train?

[Austiiin]

Ok, I have to chime in here because I think the theory in question has merit - perhaps this is the 19th cycle, but what about the 99? Everyone seems to only focus on 19, but what does the 99 represent - the ka-tet of 19 and 99?

Is it as simple as it's the 19th cycle out of a total of 99? Thinking with both numbers I think it's more likely that they are in the 19th world (there are other worlds than these) out of the 99 other worlds?*

Perhaps the tower or maybe the ka-tet we follow through the holes in the world (does that make us, the readers, the Manni folk?) will continue the cycle till they reach the correct world, world 99, and only then will the cycle end, for better or worse?

The last of my theories is that in this 19th world, it's the only world with the god/creator/Wordslinger/sai King? This is the only time that Roland gets to meet his maker. He learns for the first (and only?) time that he never makes his own decisions, but rather is an actor in a grand scale play? Still doesn't explain the 99, but it's just speculation.

Thoughts?

-Austin

[pathoftheturtle]

It is in fact explicitly stated in DT7 that 99 is the ka of King's Earth and 19 is the ka of Roland's world, whatever it means for a number to "be" the ka of a world. I've always thought this relates directly to TMIB's use of 19 on Allie via Nort in the revised edition of DT1. There, 19 represents the secret that drove her mad -- the supposed truth about what lies beyond death. But this point that 19 is the ka of Roland's world doesn't settle the issue of whether or not the story we read was the 19th iteration of his cycle: it remains uncertain because these uses of the word "world" still are not clearly defined. It might be that each iteration counts as a different world. If this was the only time that any version of Mid-World connected with any Keystone Earth, (yes, I am of the opinion that there can be more than one Keystone) then, since that connection happens to have occurred in the Earth year of 1999, that right there may be whole significance of those numbers throughout all parallel worlds. But I don't know; I still think it might be that other SKs and Rolands have other meetings in other timelines. Call me crazy if you want.

[blavigne]

I believe there is only one Keystone and one Roland. I think that the connection with Mid-World and Keystone Earth in 1999 is the reason that 19 and 99 are significant but because I believe the meeting between Roland and SK is a singular event, not one that happens in every loop as some things do.

[pathoftheturtle]

So, if you're right, do you think that they encounter 19 every time? Even though this is the only one in which they find out what it means?

[blavigne]

So, if you're right, do you think that they encounter 19 every time? Even though this is the only one in which they find out what it means?

Man good question...........I will answer that tonight after I think about it today. That is how this whole adventure has been. What seems like the answer to a question is really the door to many more! How exciting. I am really happy to be talking about TDT!!

[pathoftheturtle]

I think that it's relative. Eddie says that if there are any other Stephen Kings, he senses that they're not important. And I think that's true -- the multiverse will end if they don't save that one man at that one time, even if they could go back in time and save a different version of him -- but I think the truth of that depends on the circumstances: he's the only important one from their current point of view. It's subjective to the larger story. No other version of the ka-tet could effectively rescue this SK. My theory is that many different worlds link to one another and what is most real varies according to where one happens to be standing.

[Brainslinger]

I wondered at those guns too. In short, I think Roland left them behind in the heat of the moment. I wonder if King had actually forgotten Roland's intentions at that point too.

From a story point of view it's believable that would happen though. It certainly reflects how people act in real life. (I'm referring to things slipping ones mind in times of stress/narrow focus, not the doorway hopping thing. As far as I know anyway. )

[pathoftheturtle]

Sure, things slip people's minds in times of stress, but not Roland's mind. I think that somewhat deliberately he just did not care about them as much as the other things he had to coordinate in that moment.

[Godslug]

tl;dr - I'm confused by the difference between the man in black and marten / randall flagg. I've just finished 3rd book, so try not to include any details from later books.

Alright, so a while back I read up until the fifth book. I couldn't get a hold of Wolves of the Calla at the time, so I ended up giving up on the series for a bit.
I recently decided to start up again, and have JUST finished The Waste Lands. The reason I started from the start was cause, even though I remembered most of what happened, I wanted to refresh my memory. However, even on my second reading, I'm still iffy on one thing only:

Is the man in black / Walter O'Dim also Marten / Randall Flagg??? (Keep in mind I've only read up to Waste Lands, so if it's something that might spoil, simply say so).
I currently think that the man in black is not Marten, but what makes me confused is that it was Marten who tricked Roland into taking his test early, but I remember in The Gunslinger, when Roland catches up to the man in black (and this is the part I haven't been able to go back and confirm since I lent the book to someone), the man in black mentions something about how HE was the one who did it, to which the Gunslinger replies something like "I ought to kill you right now". The more I try and figure it out, the more confused I get (my memories not too great for these kinds of things).
Is it that Marten was the one who tricked Roland into taking his test, and the man in black was the one who caused the downfall of Gilead. Ugh, now I'm confusing myself more and more. Someone please clarify, and try not to spoil if possible (I already accidently read something that describes the connection between New York and Roland's world (what's Roland's world called, anyhow?), and I'm trying hard to forget it )

[Merlin1958]

IMHO they are all one in the same. Flagg is a chameleon and like the "Devil" is "Legion". We are many. That was my interpetation anyway. FWIW