Edgar Allan Poe *spoilers*

[pathoftheturtle]

Hopefully this will turn into or be merged to an Official Discussion thread.
ATM, we need a place to crossover debate to, from another forum.

Perhaps the best tale of inside evil ever written is Poe's "The Tell-Tale Heart," where murder is committed out of pure evil, with no mitigating circumstances whatever to tincture the brew. Poe suggests we will call his narrator mad because we must always believe that such perfect, motiveless evil is mad, for the sake of our own sanity.
--Stephen King,
Danse Macabre

That's interesting that King saw it that way...I saw the narrator as more pathetic and pitiable than outright evil.

Uh... we may just have to agree to disagree...

I'm not saying Tell-Tale Heart's protagonist was excusable in his insanity, just that he wasn't "perfect, motiveless evil". He did have a motive, it just happened to be utterly delusional. I haven't read all of Poe's work yet, but I would say the protagonist from "Cask of Amontillado" was probably more evil in that he was in full control of his mental facilities.
"Poe suggests we will call his narrator mad because we must always believe that such perfect, motiveless evil is mad, for the sake of our own sanity." No, Poe suggests the narrator's mad because he's crazier than a shithouse rat, believes that the old man's eye is evil, and thinks that his his own heartbeat is in fact the old man's disembodied heart beating underneath the floorboard.

Now I think you’re proving SK’s point.

I would say the protagonist from "Cask of Amontillado" was probably more evil in that he was in full control of his mental facilities.

Revenge and the profit motive might be more comprehensible, but are they really more evil then random destruction? It’s a good thing that we may say one is excusable in his insanity in contemporary courts, but here we’re talking pure definition.

…Tell-Tale Heart's protagonist…believes that the old man's eye is evil…

Haven’t you ever experienced such a delusion? I have them all the time; I mostly keep the fact to myself, but I am really pretty freaking paranoid. lol
The fact remains that even if it were literally absolute truth that his eye was evil, it probably wasn’t necessary to kill the man.

…and thinks that his his own heartbeat is in fact the old man's disembodied heart beating underneath the floorboard.

Another Poe classic is Masque of the Red Death, in which poetic justice befalls an ignorant ruler. Like many of his works, its supernatural element may be interpreted symbolically… or literally.

[CyberGhostface]

In Ukraine, there was a case recently where some teens tortured a bunch of innocent people and videotaped it for no other reason than they wanted a hobby and some memories to look back on when they were older. No mental illnesses, no history of abuse, nothing. That, to me, fits King's definition of evil moreso than the protagonist of the Tell-Tale Heart.

I'm not saying that the guy's misunderstood or in anyway excusable (is that why you had the icon?), just that he's not "perfect, motiveless evil". He's clearly criminally insane and deserves to be locked away in a padded room, but IMO, if he were "pure evil" he would have just killed the old man for no other reason than just to see him die and/or get off on it.

As it is, he's clearly delusional and suffering from a disease that has detoriated his mind (he says the disease made his mind sharper, but that's obviously not the case). But King's opinion is apparently that he's evil in its purest form that the only reason why we consider him mad is for our own sanity, and I just don't see that.

[Wuducynn]

But..this topic has nothing to do with Randall Flagg! *Checks Cyber's temp*

[ladysai]

I can agree with King's opinion that we see murderers as madmen because we cant accept that such acts can be committed by the sane. We have to separate ourselves from that group; even though we all have the capability to fall into madness and/or perform horrific acts.
I disagree that the old madman in Tell Tale Heart was perfect evil, though. He did seem to have a conscience in there somewhere.

[CyberGhostface]

But..this topic has nothing to do with Randall Flagg! *Checks Cyber's temp*

...huh?

[pathoftheturtle]

I think it's a bit of a slam. Probably just teasing. You do post to other threads here, certainly, but there are many topics where we don't much hear from you, which could be nice.

[CyberGhostface]

I guess I don't post as much because, besides from the comics and his short story collections, I haven't really read any of King's stuff lately.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

The Black Cat and The Premature Burial were my two favorite Poe shorts.

[CyberGhostface]

The Black Cat disturbed me the most out of Poe's stories.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I just read the Pit and the Pendulum today for the first time in years. It was much better this time. I got a better feel for the despair and isolation this go around, as I think I just had a better understanding of the language. I did not like the ending however, I didnt like the saving of the protagonist in the last two sentences. It almost would have been better if he had woken up to discover it was aaaallll a dreeeam.

[Ka-mai]

The Black Cat scared the shit out of me when I was 10. May be responsible for how weird I am now...?

Berenice is quite excellent. Very chilling.

[Jean]

The Black Cat scared the shit out of me when I was 10. May be responsible for how weird I am now...?

Yes, it may. I read my first Poe at exactly the same age, and kept retelling his stories to my friends (Alexander, Alexander, and Michael)... now we are all weird

(I brought the house down with Berenice, Morella, Ligeia, The Black Cat and some others, but especially The Tell-Tale Heart)

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Ive probably read Tell-Tale Heart so many times that I could almost repeat it verbatim.

Just read it again this morning in fact.

[turtlex]

Nevermore? Mystery visitor misses Poe's birthday
By JOSEPH WHITE, Associated Press Writer

BALTIMORE – Is this tradition "nevermore"?

A mysterious visitor who left roses and cognac at the grave of Edgar Allan Poe each year on the writer's birthday failed to show early Tuesday, breaking with a ritual that began more than 60 years ago.

"I'm confused, befuddled," said Jeff Jerome, curator of the Poe House and Museum. "I don't know what's going on."

The tradition dates back to at least 1949, according to newspaper accounts from the era, Jerome said. Since then, an unidentified person has come every Jan. 19 to leave three roses and a half-bottle of cognac at Poe's grave in a church cemetery in downtown Baltimore.

The event has become a pilgrimage for die-hard Poe fans, some of whom travel hundreds of miles. About three dozen stood huddled in blankets during the overnight cold Tuesday, peering through the churchyard's iron gates hoping to catch a glimpse of the figure known only as the "Poe toaster."

At 5:30 a.m., Jerome emerged from inside the church, where he and a select group of Poe enthusiasts keep watch over the graveyard, and announced to the crowd that the visitor never arrived. He allowed an Associated Press reporter inside the gates to view both of Poe's grave sites, the original one and a newer site where the body was moved in 1875. There was no sign of roses or cognac at either tombstone.

Jerome said the Poe toaster has always arrived before 5:30 a.m. There was still a chance the visit could occur later in the day, but Jerome said he doubted the person would risk a public unveiling by performing the task in daylight, when other visitors could be there.

"I'm very disappointed, to the point where I want to cry," said Cynthia Pelayo, 29, who had stood riveted to her prime viewing spot at the gate for about six hours. "I flew in from Chicago to see him. I'm just really sad. I hope that he's OK."

Pelayo and Poe fans from as far as Texas and Massachusetts had passed the overnight hours reading aloud from Poe's works, including the poem "The Raven," with its haunting repetition of the word "nevermore." Soon they were speculating, along with Jerome, about what might have caused the visitor not to appear.

"You've got so many possibilities," said Jerome, who has attended the ritual every year since 1977. "The guy had the flu, accident, too many people."

Tuesday marked the 201st anniversary of Poe's birth, and Jerome speculated that perhaps the visitor considered last year's bicentennial an appropriate stopping point.

"People will be asking me, 'Why do you think he stopped?'" Jerome said. "Or did he stop? We don't know if he stopped. He just didn't come this year."

There have also been recent controversies over which city should be regarded as Poe's rightful home, with some making the case that the remains perhaps should be moved to Richmond, Va., Philadelphia or Boston, cities with their own Poe legacies.

Jerome said he thinks it's unlikely the dispute is connected to the Poe toaster's no-show. If anything, Jerome felt the visitor might have weighed in on the controversy by leaving a note with the roses and cognac, as has been done in some previous years.

One such note was left in 1993, when the visitor wrote: "The torch will be passed." Years later, another note indicated the man had died in 1998 and had handed the tradition to his two sons.

Sam Porpora, a former historian at Westminster Presbyterian Church, where Poe is buried, claimed in 2007 that he was the original Poe toaster and that he had came up with the idea in the 1970s as a publicity stunt. Jerome disputed Porpora's claims by citing a 1950 article in The (Baltimore) Evening Sun that referred to the annual tribute.

Poe was the American literary master of the macabre, noted for poems and short stories including "The Tell-Tale Heart," "The Fall of the House of Usher" and "The Pit and the Pendulum." He is also credited with writing the first modern detective story, "The Murders in the Rue Morgue," which appeared in 1841.

He died Oct. 7, 1849, in Baltimore at the age of 40 after collapsing in a tavern.

As for the fate of his annual visitor? That's a new mystery.

Jerome said he will continue the vigil for at least the next two or three years, in case the visits resume.

"So, for me," he said, "it's not over with."

[Daghain]

Oh, bummer.

[Ricky]

I could've sworn that the guy's identity was unveiled a year or two ago. Hmm..

[turtlex]

My favorite woot shirt ...

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Man, I'd love to have that shirt.

[turtlex]

$15 dollars at woot - Raven Shirt at woot, my friend. Free standard shipping.

It's one of their best sellers.

[Brice]

I must get that.

[turtlex]

John Cusack to play Edgar Allan Poe in "The Raven"
By Borys Kit

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) – John Cusack will portray Edgar Allan Poe in "The Raven," a fictional thriller set during the last five days of the author's life.

The story follows Poe as he is forced to partner with a detective in search of a serial killer who has kidnapped his fiancee and has gone on a murder spree that mimics his works.

The project will be directed by James McTeigue ("Ninja Assassin," "V For Vendetta"). Shooting begins October 25, with Budapest and Serbia standing in for 1849 Baltimore.

Several actors have been attached to the project over the years, including Joaquin Phoenix, Ewan McGregor and Jeremy Renner. Cusack last starred in "Hot Tub Time Machine."

[Daghain]

So, they're only using the title, then.

[pathoftheturtle]

Sounds a little too "Shakespeare in Love."
I love John Cusack, but he does appear in some pretty lousy films sometimes.

[Jean]

Sounds a little too "Shakespeare in Love."

God forbid...

[Roland of Gilead 33]

i just LOVE "Edgar Allen Poe" only read some of his short stories well poems mostly.