oh, so this is a completely different forum all together? i figured it was run by the same people, but maybe i was just assuming so.
oh, so this is a completely different forum all together? i figured it was run by the same people, but maybe i was just assuming so.
Nope, totally different.
Many of us were members of the old forum but my partners and I decided starting out on our own would be interesting.
And it really is.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
well Thankee-sai, since TDT.net seems to be gone. I'm very glad this popped up!!!!
And it's great to have you here.
I've forgotten what the topic was.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Just curious, do the characters or narrator ever refer to the worlds by "name" (world 19 and world 99)?Originally Posted by Bumbler19
also, I've seen someone here say that this was Rolands 19th "loop", are there any source in the books themselves that state this, or is it just something made up by the fans?
Sorry for going off topic, curiosity got me
Some are born to sweet delight,
some are born to the endless night.
Think about it, this is what I assumed, he was able to reset in the world of 19 because the Tower permitted it. And if the Tower is the nexus of Space-Time and pretty much decides what happens across the Universe, then if it wanted to, it can break the rules whenever it pleases.
Rolands intuition **spoilers**
Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Roland often "knows" things by intuition, he knows where to go, what to do, who to talk to etc etc. very often. (I don't remember any examples though) and I believe it was called intuition, or whatever.
But does anyone besides me think that maybe, just maybe, his intuition can in fact be memories from past "loops"? Memories he doesn't even recognize as such, because he's supposed to have forgotten? Kind of like how Jakes memories of his old life fades away.
In the previous loops, maybe he didn't get as far as he did this time (maybe further and further each time), and that his intuition is memories of what he has done (or failed to do) in a past loop, so he must do it differently now?
Your thoughts?
Some are born to sweet delight,
some are born to the endless night.
Thats a good thought. I also remember several instances when Roland was in a trancelike state or under the spell of something. i.e merlins grapefruit, oracle, todash etc. Whereas I dont remember the details specifically, I always thought that maybe he picked up some of his "intuition" subconsciously during these times.
Complete speculation. An interesting theory for sure but I have some major issues with the way I've heard it stated.
The characters do refer to the worlds by name they say, something close to "this world, the world of 19.... and the real world, the keystone world, the world of 99"
something close to that, not exact quote but close to it.
-------
in other threads, i've read that the world that Roland ends up in is another level of the tower, which ties into (B, another version of Roland's world). Now considering this, i've had the idea that the entire series isn't just a trek TO the tower, but a trek UP the tower, each time he restarts he climbs one level of the tower.
that also suggests that not only "worlds 19 and 99" need saving, but it is every world that needs saving.
Gan is having Roland climb every level, to every world and save the beams one by one, or two, considering he saved both 19 and 99 in this loop around.
Maybe each WORLD IS a "BEAM" to hold something much more important. Maybe the plane on which all the worlds sit, or "the loaf of bread" if anyone is familiar with String Theory.
It is an interesting thought, but as it was explained in the book it was -mostly- the teachings of a gunslinger he learned in Gilead. OR his ability to feel what Ka needs him to do, he talks to certain people because the flow of Ka pushes him to do so. He takes certain routes because Ka pushes him to do so.
i dunno, that is just what I like to think, if you add hidden memories creeping in like that, it takes away from the power of Ka, not saying it is wrong, i guess i just don't like the idea of belittling Ka
he he >.>
what if that part of Ka is "hidden memories"?
It might be Ka that "allows" Roland to vaguely remember things, and therefore it influences his decision.
Maybe the more Roland is in touch with Ka, the more he remembers from previous loops?
Just sayin'
Some are born to sweet delight,
some are born to the endless night.
you make a good point sir, i dunno about the Ka is hidden memories part, but the part about how the more Roland is in touch with Ka part is a very interesting point.
although.....
do we have any proof that everything is always the same in every loop? been toying around in other threads about how this new loop could just be another world similar to Roland's but not quite the same, like the different versions of New York.
IF that is the case his memories might not always guide him in the right direction.
Page 19. Had to say it.
Well he doesn't always make the right decisions, so maybe he will "remember" (intuition) more the next time around?
Like Jake and Eddie dying, not saying it's Rolands fault - but maybe he will "learn" from this, and manage to avoid them getting killed in the next loops. Heck he may even not drop Jake in the first place.
and no there's no proof that everything is the same in every loop, in fact the only proof is that some things are different (the horn). But I see that as progress. Now that he has the horn, something will make his quest more successful, somehow. Maybe Jake will hang on to the Horn when Roland drops him or something, and pull himself up, who knows?
lots of assumptions here, but hey!
Some are born to sweet delight,
some are born to the endless night.
I just thought he was really smart...
if the worlds gonna end then let's get it over with, i got shit to do
I think part of what drives Roland is the memories from past loops. I'm sure it's very much in his sub conscience.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
SPOILERS -Why Remember only to Forget?
so, why would Roland remember all of his past loops the seconds he goes through the door? only to forget seconds later.
just as he goes through, he yells, NO, NOT AGAIN!
been toying around with memories and things in the Roland's Intuitions thread, but it doesn't necessarily explain whey he remembers it all at the end.
As in the Intuitions thread suggests, his memories and lessons learned in previous loops sort of, guide and influence decisions and actions he takes.
But He doesn't necessarily need to remember everything all at once... if that was the only case it seems these memories or subconscious memories would build up regardless of this event, at least that is what i think....
So again, the question is WHY he "fully" remembers everything, and why such a brief period of time.
Only answer I can think of is ---- Torment....
Roland's Intuition & Why Remember To Forget:
Merging both threads with the main "loop thread" (That Thing, You Can Only Talk About When You've Finished The Series). Great questions, but anything pertaining to loops can be discussed in here
Sorry about that. I had no idea what this thread was about because of the nameRoland's Intuition & Why Remember To Forget:
Merging both threads with the main "loop thread" (That Thing, You Can Only Talk About When You've Finished The Series). Great questions, but anything pertaining to loops can be discussed in here
Some are born to sweet delight,
some are born to the endless night.
I do not think Roland's quote of "No, not again" means he remembers everything about his previous loops. Not at all. To me, it is Roland realizing he is going back to the desert, to the point where he knew that he'd reach the Tower, and crying out his sadness and unhappiness. I didn't see it having anything to do with remembering any loops.
I'll have to go back through and see if I can find them...but I think Roland actually says (as well as some of the others in the Ka-tet) in MORE than one place that he knows something "just knows it", "doesn't know how he knows it", "knows exactly what will happen next" and he doesn't say deja vu or intuition that I can remember but says "ka wills it" or something like "it would work because it had to, because that was the only way it would work and ka wills it".Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Roland often "knows" things by intuition, he knows where to go, what to do, who to talk to etc etc. very often. (I don't remember any examples though) and I believe it was called intuition, or whatever.
But does anyone besides me think that maybe, just maybe, his intuition can in fact be memories from past "loops"? Memories he doesn't even recognize as such, because he's supposed to have forgotten? Kind of like how Jakes memories of his old life fades away.
In the previous loops, maybe he didn't get as far as he did this time (maybe further and further each time), and that his intuition is memories of what he has done (or failed to do) in a past loop, so he must do it differently now?
Your thoughts?
I'll see if I can find some specific quotes...but the foreshadowing, especially in the last 3 novels, becomes pretty clear.
The wrath of the witch-burners is in direct proportion to the comeliness of the witch.
Clark Ashton Smith
But perhaps that is what Ka is? As we learn in DT7, you are never beyond Ka, and all things serve the Beam.Spoiler:
The wrath of the witch-burners is in direct proportion to the comeliness of the witch.
Clark Ashton Smith
Hi Bumbler19 congrats on finishing the series and welcome to the site. Just FYI this thread will be merged tomorrow or Monday with the other End thread. It is filled with all sorts good stuff about the ending and loop and whatnots. It is getting pretty long now but it is worth a look through. Thanks!
Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
Lalalalaaaa, lalalalaaa
sugarpop <3
For my part I don't think Roland makes loops... but spirals. It's not my idea but I am absolutely convinced. And if we are talking about a spiral there is no time travelling.
Here is a picture I made it's damn clumsy but that's how I see Roland's journey right now.
"D" means desert.
So all his journeys seem very very similar (their beginnings and ends are specially) but all of them are different and new.
Roland would have understood.
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