LEX
I don't think that the idea behind Venom is anymore stupid than the idea of a guy falling into a boilint pot of chemicals and ending up with a big ass grin on his face.
no that's true. some of the origins of these characters are a little ridiculous, but the end result can make up for it.
sometimes.
Magneto kicks ass
I've thought about what you've said, and I have a better understanding of why I don't like Venom.
It brings the cosmic side of the Marvel U into Spider-Man, a street level character. It's like if Sherlock Holmes' enemy Moriarty was from the future. It would make no sense, because Holmes' genre is not science fiction. It doesn't balance out to me.
I lean to the value of Spider-Man as a guy who fights thugs, the mob and earth bound villains. He worries about his family and making ends meet. Bringing in an alien costume, and then more alien costumes, and then more alien costumes negates what makes Spidey great. Venom bogs him down just like fighting huge mech robots would bog down Batman.
If Venom was an enemy of say Silver Surfer or Dr. Strange maybe then I would like him, but as it stands I don't.
The only time I've ever enjoyed Venom is when The Sub-Mariner ripped his tongue out. That was pretty great imo.
Spider-man has fought Thanos, Dormamu, The Beyonder, Firelord, Mephisto, Ultron, Super-Skrull, Kang the Conqueror and a host of other Villains who exist on a cosmic scale over the course of his career. Peter Parker does tend to be an everyman, but his crimefighting isn't limited to street thugs and earth bound villains by any means.
Spider-Man was even gifted, for a while, with the powers of Captain Universe by the Enigma Force.
There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.
While I do agree that all of the alien symbiotes after Venom were a bit unnecessary, I don't think that (We are) Venom bogs down Spidey in the slightest. To me, Spidey and Venom are the perfect counterparts, and the fact that Venom takes control of Brock after being dumped by Parker only helps to reinforce this. Parker knows and understands the deadly power that comes with bonding with the symbiote, and he also understands the urges to do harm to others will 'sporting' it This is why, at least IMHO, Venom is such a great villian.
that's true stuff.
and venom never felt like he was some weirdo outer space creature to me. even though the symbiote is from another planet, when Venom came on the scene, and when he's chasing/fighting with spidey, he just seems like any other villain. like doc ock or the lizard. just much more bad ass.
In the Ultimate Spider-Man universe, they chose to make Venom a suit that Peter and Eddie's dad were working on that was supposed to be used to treat burn victims and cancer patients, but it somehow developed sentience. The story they use in the movie was most likely drawn from the Ultimate version.
P.S.
This thread needs more Emma Frost love, even though her villainous nature could be debated.
There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.
I personally also love Harley Quinn. I'm a big fan of most Batman female villains, except Catwoman. I never was too fond of her.
Anyways, Jimmy, how do you feel about Harley Quinn being a huge Joker fan? Do you like her character or does she annoy you (i've heard other big Joker fans say that before).
I am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine. With fire and blood.
i found this. thought it was funny.
thanos.
That's great Mike.
Oh and did I mention that I love when you post because I get to see Hiro each time? ....and because it's a Mike post.
I am Daenerys Stormborn and I will take what is mine. With fire and blood.
well thank you thank you.
and hiro thanks you too. he told me so.
Well, I gotta address this even though the conversation has gone by.
Your movie references...oh man, those are wrong as hell. We have established how badly they strayed from the original idea of what Venom is that it was almost criminal. So that entire part of your argument...moot
As for the main question... is the suit evil? My main point on that score was to say that it attaches itself and amplifies what is already inside of the host. Like acid--but huge.
So the Lion analogy is was about what the thing was born to do, not about the result it inflicts. The antelope dies after all, that seems pretty bad . But is the lion "evil" for killing, doing what it does? No and neither is the suit imo.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
He's fought all those people but never regularly. You never see Spidey swinging through the city and go, "Oh, Thanos is robbing a bank again. Let me go see what's up."
The Captain Universe thing was a ploy to sell comics. The story had no redeeming value, no long term consequences and is never mentioned in the books today. Such ploys as this are still used today, such as this here.
This cover picture does not even happen in the book that it's the cover of.
I was just trying to be funny and discos an easy target.
Honestly I fully believe the suit is evil. Nobody ever does good things when they get ahold of Venom. Time after time, the host gets really mean, really insane and very, very hungry for people. In the main Marvel U, in alternate reality stories and in prose, film and animation Venom is always the same.
You're pushing for the "It's not the gun that's bad, but the person who shoots it" approach, but it just doesn't hold water to me. If a gun made people kill no matter who held it, that gun would be evil, regardless of what it was created for. The same goes for the symbiote, it makes people kill people and it takes pleasure from doing it.
I guess we'll agree to disagree then. I'll say it one more time though, Venom only amplifies whatever is already in the host.
Parker never killed when he wore the suit (for a long time btw), his frustrations at being Spidey were amplified to the point of violence but that was about it. The suit doesn't make you kill.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Hmmm...good theory.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Why are you laughing?
Because we are so off topic it isn't even funny--but I laugh at things that aren't funny all the time.
Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Oh ok. I thought you didn't know about the Spider God. I was all about to trump our argument, darn it!
We're discussing villains, that's on topic isn't it?