Full Dark, No Stars / Trade & Limited Editions

[jhanic]

Looking at the UPS website, I should have my books Friday.

John

[tippy4]

I paid $35 shipping for just the one book.

Not that I'm one to defend CD, but shipping insured Priority Mail w/delivery confirmation costs abt. $20 in a flat rate box that is probably too small for this book. So, a cost of approx. $30-$35 isn't totally off the mark...still too high, but not crazily so.

Yeah, but they are not going to ship them Priority. They will most likely ship them UPS Ground.

However, $56 for two books doesn't make sense...the cost doesn't climb that much for the box, or insurance, once you go above a certain point...it's just a bigger box, but it would still cost $35 or so....so effectively charging double shipping does seem like a money grab.

Agreed.

Hi everyone!

To answer the question about the shipping, one of the things we've discussed in the other thread is that Cemetery Dance is trying to do a better job of planning and looking at the long-term, and not making some mistakes we used to make, which hurt our business.

In the past, like with The Secretary of Dreams, we just "went with our gut" when we assigned shipping prices, and in the end, we ended up eating a lot of costs.

In this case, we had the costs from starting to ship The Secretary of Dreams (Volume 2) to use for comparison when planning what shipping Full Dark, No Stars would cost us. We sat down with our accountant and our UPS rep, and when it came time to assign shipping costs we had to account for the additional labor, custom-made boxes, other packing materials, insurance on the shipments, the cost of each shipment, leasing the additional warehouse space, and other factors.

I completely agree that you shouldn't eat the cost of shipping, but it seems like you went from one end of the spectrum on SOD2 (undercharging) to the other end of the spectrum on FDNS (overcharging).

I don't mind paying a little extra for a properly shipped item, packaged so that the book doesn't get damaged.

Honestly, I was surprised at how much shipping was at CD for the books when I checked out - but, guarantee me a pristine book, and I'll be okay with it. (and I never considered that special, custom-made boxes had to be ordered )

I don't mind paying a LITTLE extra either, but a $20+ "handling fee" is not a LITTLE. As far as the comment about custom-made boxes goes, I am skeptical. WWW.ULINE.COM has just about every box size conceivable in stock.


Like I said before, the cost of shipping was given to me before I hit the SUBMIT ORDER button, and I still hit the button, so I guess I have no right to complain.

That being said, I am going to anyhow.

If there are costs like leasing extra warehouse space, then that should have been worked into the price of the book.

You know, I live in CA, so I expect to pay a little more for shipping, and as such, I am only annoyed by the $56 cost. But, If I lived closer to CDP, say in NY, MD, NH or VT, and I was charged $56 to ship 15 lbs of books to me, I would be downright pissed off.

Brian, like the others, I appreciate your presence here.

I also appreciate the fact that CDP is a business, and one of the main reasons that a business exists is to make money.

I have many CDP books on my shelf (Best of CD, FaB8, Great Ghost Stories, Blockade Billy, Road to the DT, SK Unpublished and just as many if not more on order. I am very impressed with your companies product.

My hope is that on future books, a shipping fee is charged that more closely reflects CDP's cost to get a book from their warehouse to me.

[Sir_Boomme]

Hey Brian,
I am very happy to see CD getting the business side of company to a closer point to where the quality of books side has always been.

I do have a question/request that has been on my tongue for about 5 years.

For the Lifetime membership people (like me). Is there anyway to get an extra few shipments a year? Granted, it is great to get a huge box of books that just keep spilling out... but it's kind of a bummer when a big time one like the king books comes out, and everyone on the block has it months before I ever get to see it. I don't mind the wait for most of the books, but if it's a king related limited, it definitely gets a bit frustrating coming on hear and reading about everyone having the book knowing I may not see it for a while because you guys hold them back until there's a big boxfull to ship.

Not asking for each book to be shipped separately by any means, possibly just an extra shipment when a huge title is released?

Thought I'd ask anyways.

[BigCoffinHunter]

My hope is that on future books, a shipping fee is charged that more closely reflects CDP's cost to get a book from their warehouse to me.

Well, once again, they are including the cost to pay for shipping and insurance for the signature sheets to and from the author, the cost of shipping and insurance from the binder to the warehouse, the costs to lease the warehouse space, purchase packing materials (including boxes, tape, packing peanuts, extra cardboard for packing, etc.), pay staff to come in to do the sorting and packing, and the actual cost of shipping and insurance to the consumer.

Additionally, with over 2,550 books going out, they are likely to have a small percentage damaged in shipping and, as I can personally attest from a situation where a book from a private seller was destroyed during shipping, while UPS does pay the purchase price of the book on an insurance claim, they do not reimburse the cost of shipping (at least in my case they didn't, which really pissed me off considering the fact that one of their machines literally tore the book in two and they delivered it anyways by leaving it on the door step after they claimed to have knocked with no answer). The one time I did have an issue with a book from Cemetery Dance, they paid for shipping in both directions.

Of course, one can argue that with the exception of the actual postage and insurance to the customer, everything else above is the cost of doing business and should therefore be included in the price of the book. True, but consider the fact that rather than charge $350.00 plus $35.00 shipping, Cemetery Dance could just as easily have charged $375.00 for the book and only $10.00 for shipping, in which case no one would really be complaining, particularly in light of the fact that the much shorter Blockade Billy was $450.00 plus shipping. So, in reality, it's just a question of semantics, 6 of one or half-dozen of the other.

[Brian James Freeman]

Not asking for each book to be shipped separately by any means, possibly just an extra shipment when a huge title is released?

Thought I'd ask anyways.

No worries! For books like SOD 2 or FDNS, we usually do try to send them on their own, we just have to get through all of the regular orders first so we can load and process the lifetimer "batch."

But we've been talking about other ways to process and ship lifetimers in smaller batches, so could you drop me a line via email? I'd like to discuss a few ideas with you to see what you think: brianfreeman@cemeterydance.com

Thanks!

Best wishes,
Brian Freeman
brianfreeman@cemeterydance.com
http://www.CemeteryDance.com

[Rahfa]

My hope is that on future books, a shipping fee is charged that more closely reflects CDP's cost to get a book from their warehouse to me.

Well, once again, they are including the cost to pay for shipping and insurance for the signature sheets to and from the author, the cost of shipping and insurance from the binder to the warehouse, the costs to lease the warehouse space, purchase packing materials (including boxes, tape, packing peanuts, extra cardboard for packing, etc.), pay staff to come in to do the sorting and packing, and the actual cost of shipping and insurance to the consumer.

Of course, one can argue that with the exception of the actual postage and insurance to the customer, everything else above is the cost of doing business and should therefore be included in the price of the book.

Obviously, everything above should be considered part of the cost of the book. Otherwise, why is it $350?

Like you say, just charge $385 and be done with it.

RF's got a good point below...although I think anything can be negotiated.

[Randall Flagg]

I would guess King either received a lump sum or a percentage of the sale price. If he was paid a percentage, it is unlikely he received a cut of the S&H charge.

[Brian James Freeman]

Someone raised a good point the other day, which I wanted to get some feedback on since it seems pretty relevant to this book.

How do you, as a collector/customer, feel when a retailer buys a brand new book (like a Stephen King signed Limited Edition) from the publisher and then lists it for sale for $100 or more over the list price because it sold out in 12 hours, etc?

Obviously the retailer received his standard discount (and net-30 terms), so he already has profit built into the retail price... But he obviously also has a collectible that is worth "more" than that retail price. He has no obligation to the publisher to sell it for the list price. He could sell it for $1 or $1000. The publisher doesn't have a say in that.

But how do you feel about this practice?

Best,
Brian

[Randall Flagg]

That is a very interesting point. I see that a copy of the S/L FDNS has already hit Ebay

[Brian James Freeman]

That is a very interesting point. I see that a copy of the S/L FDNS has already hit Ebay

Oh wow, I had not seen that listing yet. I thought eBay only allowed preorders to be sold 30 days from the ship date? Or has that changed?

Best,
Brian

[biomieg]

Re: some retailers asking premium prices. I see your point but in the end, what's the difference between paying a premium price to a retailer or being charged high shipping costs by the publisher? Everybody tries to earn a living and it's up to the customer to either bite the bullet and pay top dollar or wait until a cheaper copy comes along on the secondary market. This is a self-regulatory thing and I like to think that the buyer dictates the market.

[Rahfa]

Someone raised a good point the other day, which I wanted to get some feedback on since it seems pretty relevant to this book.

How do you, as a collector/customer, feel when a retailer buys a brand new book (like a Stephen King signed Limited Edition) from the publisher and then lists it for sale for $100 or more over the list price because it sold out in 12 hours, etc?

Obviously the retailer received his standard discount (and net-30 terms), so he already has profit built into the retail price... But he obviously also has a collectible that is worth "more" than that retail price. He has no obligation to the publisher to sell it for the list price. He could sell it for $1 or $1000. The publisher doesn't have a say in that.

But how do you feel about this practice?

Best,
Brian

I'm fine with it...no different than what many collectors do when they buy two copies, to sell one.

I mean, retailers guarantee the publishers a bunch of block sales, right? So you can say "okay, we're guaranteed 100 orders for the gift edition" and that gives the retailers the right to earn some money on the s/l.

I'm not a fan of publishers who sell "publishers editions" that seem to add up to as many copies of the s/l edition, though.

[turtlex]

Brian - Were you asking specifically about RETAILERS - you know, bookstores or whatever? Or are you including, as Rahfa indicated, collectors who buy one as an "investiment" with a plan to sell?

I guess it doesn't really matter though - Personally, as much as I hate when I miss out on an offering, I figure the market of collectors will set the price when I'm prepared to buy.

Frankly, my first stop is always here in Calvins. I know the folks here will give me good info on going prices/asking prices/sellers, and often someone here will have something I want. I'd rather my money stay here with the members I trust.

Ultimately, it's my bad if I miss the initial sale... so it's up to the market at that point.

[Brian James Freeman]

This is a self-regulatory thing and I like to think that the buyer dictates the market.

I tend to agree. It seems like the market has said what it has to say about the prices for FULL DARK, NO STARS right now, given the quick sellout, so it'll be interesting to see what prices the book sells for on the secondary market.

Just because hundreds of people signed up for the Waiting List on our site doesn't mean they would have bought a copy, but on the other hand, that's a lot of people who might be watching eBay for a copy!

Best,
Brian

[Brian James Freeman]

Brian - Were you asking specifically about RETAILERS - you know, bookstores or whatever? Or are you including, as Rahfa indicated, collectors who buy one as an "investiment" with a plan to sell?

Personally, as much as I hate when I miss out on an offering, I figure the market of collectors will set the price when I'm prepared to buy.

Yep, my question was only specifically about retailers/booksellers, not collectors who go the investment route.

My opinion, not that it matters much, is that once a book is out there, people (whether it be booksellers or collectors) can try to sell it for whatever they'd like to try to sell it for! The market will determine the "true" value.

But we had a lot of complaints recently from the customers of a bookseller who didn't realize he was selling a particular book for more than the original retail, which got me thinking about the topic.

Best,
Brian

[turtlex]

I think I was editing my post for clarity when you replied, Brian. Sorry about that.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't go to a bookseller - I'd come here and see what the deal was with going prices, recent sales, etc and as I wrote above - usually what I want is available from one of the members.

[Sam]

For me, I look at how many times the book has exchanged hands. Buying direct from a retailer with a reasonable expectation that I am the first owner of the book would lead me to expect to pay the Publisher's price. I might grant the bookseller a little profit (maybe pay $400 rather than $350 just for the convenience and for their overhead) but I wouldn't buy from the bookseller if they decided to sell the book for say $500 instead of the $350 that was the list price. I'm sure someone would snatch it up, but I don't feel like the original owner should be paying secondary market prices for any item. They should be able to get it at the retail price from a retail dealer. BUT, the market is what it is, and a non-chain bookstore charges what it's owner decides to charge.

Personally, I would do my research first and go to reputable sellers that I know here before I'd go anywhere else.

[jhanic]

One thing that upsets me is when the publisher "finds" extra copies of one of his items, then sells them at a "secondary market" price.

John

[Rahfa]

This is a self-regulatory thing and I like to think that the buyer dictates the market.

I tend to agree. It seems like the market has said what it has to say about the prices for FULL DARK, NO STARS right now, given the quick sellout, so it'll be interesting to see what prices the book sells for on the secondary market.

Just because hundreds of people signed up for the Waiting List on our site doesn't mean they would have bought a copy, but on the other hand, that's a lot of people who might be watching eBay for a copy!

Best,
Brian

Buick 8 was a pretty quick sell out too...it sold for $250 then, and probably sells for $350-$400 now (on a good day).

I think $350 is a good price, but I don't think it leaves much room for the secondary market to grow (and I'm not saying it should). I'd be really surprised if it sold for more than $500 long-term, and more like $450...there will be the usual spike after release, but that's for suckers.

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

There are some retailers who buy books from specialty publishers, and then sell them to the book lovers (like me) with a layaway plan, and only charge the original price of the book. Those are my kind of retailers! I would order many more books from CD if they had a layaway plan, but I fully understand why they don't. Selling all those books and keeping up with orders probably keeps them busy enough without haveing to worry about late payments, keeping and checking records, etc.

[demorgan]

One thing that upsets me is when the publisher "finds" extra copies of one of his items, then sells them at a "secondary market" price.

John

I agree.

[tippy4]

I have no problem with a dealer or reseller selling the book for more than the publisher's price.

However, as jhanic pointed out, it annoys me when the publisher does it.

[Sam]

Or worse yet, doing like Doubleday did and jacking the price up and up before publication, even after you have paid for the book.

[BigCoffinHunter]

I have no problem with a dealer or reseller selling the book for more than the publisher's price.

However, as jhanic pointed out, it annoys me when the publisher does it.

Then again, it would also seem like the publisher would be justified in cutting the dealers' discount if they are just going to jack up the price of the book anyways. I guess it really just comes down to the publisher's policies, whether they allow it or specifically bar such practices in their agreements with the sellers.

[Patrick]

I think $350 is a good price, but I don't think it leaves much room for the secondary market to grow (and I'm not saying it should). I'd be really surprised if it sold for more than $500 long-term, and more like $450...there will be the usual spike after release, but that's for suckers.

I agree with this statement.

Brian, in today's market, had I missed this initial opportunity, I would not be looking to pay a dime over your original price from another source. In fact, had you been asking even $400 I would have reluctantly passed. For me, the $350 price tag was my maximum threshold of pain for this book, so you pegged your price just right.

Or worse yet, doing like Doubleday did and jacking the price up and up before publication, even after you have paid for the book.

Yes. I think everyone here has agreed that was a bullshit move, especially in the case of those who had already paid. If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear from those who think that this was acceptable.