Roland is his dinh. He belongs to him.
Because of Jake - that's what he asked from him.
Because of ka - ka forces Oy to choose Roland.
Something else.
I'm not original in thinking Oy actually followed Jake's orders a lot more than Roland's.
Just because Oy was told by Jake to stay with Roland (what I think) doesn't mean that it didn't serve ka.
He does it for Jake, if he did it for Olan, or even for Ka i believe Oy would have talked more besides the very few times he did after Jake fell.
Maybe secondary for Ka...
Thirdly Olan his ex-Dihn...
............ The Ka-tet broke when Eddie died, so technically he is no longer their official Dihn. I think ex-dihn or former dihn is in the book multiple times after eddie died.Why did you write ex-Dihn?
I think Roland was his dihn as long as he lived.
Oy died well after Eddie, making Olan Former-Dihn of Oy and Susannah till their death and departure respectively.
Oy knew to follow Jake's final order; to protect Roland. This was also Eddie's order to Jake and Oy.
I think Oy also knew that he wasn't far from the clearing at the end of the path anyhow.
I meant, he knew staying would lead him to the clearing at the end of the path very shortly afterward.
And I know even Roland believed it of Oy, that he wouldn't have left Jake's grave without Jake's command.. but I believe Oy to be a true Gunslinger. Oy had a sense of purpose. He had a sense of purpose to move forward just as they all had.
i dont think so, i think Oy only left jakes grave because Jake ordered him to leave and protect Roland, as Eddie ordered jake to. If it was Ka, they would not have needed to be told, it would just have been
I agree with Letti, that if Oy had not followed jakes orders he would have lain down and died at jakes grave.
When he (oy) followed roland, his heart was just not in it, it was as if he had left a part of him at jakes graveside, and it is this more than anything else that tells me he left only because his beloved jake told him to
Let me try to gather my thoughts together. Maybe I will succeed, maybe not, but here goes.
Well, I do think while it was because of Jake's command Oy didn't stay beside Jake's grave and followed Roland, I think ka had its fingers somewhere there. You never know, maybe ka meant Susannah to go (though it still hurts me, it does) and Oy to stay. You can't compare Oy and Susannah, one's soul is pure and innocent, one is a human being and thus complicated. Oy indeed is a complex being, but not complicated like humans, if ya ken what I mean?
Fair enough, the will of animals isn't weak, and they can do as they want, despite of commands. Oy could have followed with Susannah, yes, letting love to blind him. But this little samurai knew what had to be done and moved on, though it must have hurt him really much, knowing Jake was so near. Oy must have known death would be painful because of his choice. Such a brave heart.
But maybe again, true samurais don't feel pain when they are dying. They just kind of slip away, content knowing they've done their part, and letting the surviving ones know there is no hard feelings, just love. That's what I've always hoped for, anyway. But I swear, I would've torn my book apart, had'nt Sai King mentioned a strange-looking dog barking happily in New York.
It would just have been too much to bear if Oy hadn't made it, ka or not.
I don't know if any of this made sense, but I'm doing a reread right now, and all my thoughts are kind of a mishmash.
"...neither the stupid jokes nor the easy surface emotions were the truth of Cuthbert Allgood."
I like the question this thread has created: who was Oy's ultimate Dinh?
In DT7, after Jake's death, when he and Roland are in the Dixie Pig following Jake's old trail, Oy is thinking of Jake and refers to Jake, very specifically, as his dinh. Of course, in the sharing water scene, Oy also calls Roland his dinh. However ... I think that, if Roland ever, for any reason (and it would be grossly out of character) tried to harm Jake, even if he was just following the Cort style school of disciplining apprentice gunslingers, Oy would have attacked Roland with no hesitation. So I'd have to say ... Jake is Oy's ultimate dinh, but he accepts Roland because Roland is Jake's dinh. Whew.
He also thinks that he will be with Jake very soon, as soon as he finishes this last job Jake gave him. So I think its pretty clear, in the books, that Oy chose to accompany Roland out of his love for Jake ... of course, his love serves ka, but I believe he's fulfilling Jake's dying wish.
Interesting. But I would still argue that Oy's ultimate loyalty is to Jake ... and he does call Jake dinh in TDT.
Nah, I meant The Dark Tower. I have a bad habit of abbreviating anything possible.You mean The Drawing of the Three? Oy appeared in The Waste Lands.
Grrr. I knew someone would ask that.I don't remember Oy calling Jake dinh at all (but my memory is quite bad). Could you show us the quote?
Ah. Here we go. Pg. 92, when Oy and Jake are running away from the low men under the Dixie Pig: "Oy had no idea why he heard anxiety in his ka-dinh's voice."
So not exactly his dinh, but his ka-dinh. Which means ... anyone? anyone? Buehler?"
Sorry for stealing your time but thank you so much for the quote. Really interesting. If only SK wrote a real DT dictionary.. but I have a feeling there is difference between dinh and ka-dinh (or is it because it would make my point stronger?).. I am interested in the others' opinion.
Roland would have understood.
I'm afraid it's not only the hypothetical difference between dinh and ka-dinh, but the difference between what Oy actually said and what the author suggested he thought. Also, a ka-tet is, for lack of a better word, a floating notion: in the main ka-tet consisting of five members Roland is doubtlessly the dinh, for all those who form the ka-tet; in a smaller, very personal ka-tet formed between Oy and Jake, Jake is the dihn.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I believe that Oy chose Roland instead of Susannah because of ka. Oy had already followed Roland cause Jake wanted to, otherwise he would have died there, over his grave.
There are hints in all books that the members of the ka-tet had already been there. Somehow Susannah knew that Roland was supposed to finish his quest alone (how would she know?)
Maybe Oy doesnt differ from Eddie, Susannah and Jake by just being an animal. In my opinion, is bound by the ka. Oy was meant to stay there and save Roland himself, fulfilling his final role in this quest. It was a tragic moment, even though essential, from my point of view.
I voted for Ka I agree that Roland needed to finish the quest alone hence why each level of the tower tells his story and noone elses.
I think it was Ka that allowed the relationship to be forged between Oy and Jake and if Jake hadn't told Oy to take care of Roland he still would have done because he had a job to do because of Ka. Otherwise Roland would have died so the quest would have ended so near the tower.
I think maybe Jake's instruction to Oy was superflous but indicated his love for Roland. In addition Oy would have ended up in the clearing no matter what he did and, therefore, be with Jake.
Last edited by Sickrose; 11-12-2009 at 03:58 AM. Reason: Add spoiler tags
ka
“The devil's voice is sweet to hear.”
-SK.