Last edited by Letti; 03-04-2008 at 10:14 PM. Reason: just correcting the quote part
The answer is within
all matter is energy, all energy is GOD
I hear everyone saying that somehow, Roland my achieve Salvation, and end the loops. No my question is what exactly does salvation mean? or more precisely, what does it mean when applied to Roland? Bcause there are many forms of salvation. it could mean he is going to get to go to heaven. it may mean he is actually able stop and have loved ones. It could mean he can finally reast, or actually get to see what is at the top without being sucked back through time.
Or he could finally be allowed to die.
What do you think?
Last edited by Darkthoughts; 12-28-2008 at 02:07 PM.
i don't know exactly what it means in toto but i do believe that part of it is he doesn't slaughter the entire town of tull. or rape sylvia pittston with his gun. i think a part of his salvation lies in not only acknowledging that a trap lies waiting for him in tull (which he does) but in doing something to avoid that trap (which he doesn't).
i've also often wondered if part of his salvation might not entail making the decision to not drop jake. however, that leads to an entirely different set of circumstances. would he still go toward the sea and find the doors? would he know what to do with them? would he draw susannah and eddie? what would happen to jake in his world during the time between his first drawing and the time of his second "real" drawing?
i'm still thinking about this though, so i might have some other ideas later. anyone else?
I think that the Dark Tower being a book where all contexts converge, everyone (who uses this word at all, I mean - we are actually not that many) understands it in accordance with the terms in which his concept of the world is shaped. For me it means that after he dies he goes immediately to Heaven; I already mentioned elsewhere that I totally consider Roland a Saint, like St. Joan of Arc, St.George, St.Ignatius Loyola, St.Martin of Tours, or St. Louis IX (I see parallels with many others, too).
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Given the nature of the quest and it's main protagonist, you could probably substitute Salvatation for Redemption.
Razz, if you don't mind I will move this thread to DT7 section. It fits there a lot.
When I get home I will try to write down my thoughts about the question, too.
Roland would have understood.
I think it's a good question Razz. To me, Roland's "salvation" would entail being able to die, just die. I cannot say what, if anything, would become of him at that point. I do not have any specific beliefs as to what may or may not come after physical death in the temporal world. I prefer some metaphors to others, but unless and until it happens to me, I can only say I don't know.
sure thanks
I think his "salvation" means to cry off the obsession.
sorry razz, i misunderstood at the beginning. i think i get it now.
perhaps his salvation is simply that he gets to live the rest of his life out without circling back continuously. he does everything he needs to do to the best of his ability, without the ferocious and unyielding implacableness that is his trademark, and in the end he gets to just live.
in the calla is where i'd like to see him, with rosa. then in the end, he just dies peacefully in his sleep, having already come to terms with everything he's done in his life and all the choices he's made. and if he believes in heaven he ends up there, if he doesn't he ends up in a perfect, peaceful blackness. i think that part is up to him.
or perhaps he goes where Susannah went. but the only piece of that puzzle he'd fit into would be Eddie and Jake's Father. Maybe in that case Rosa would be there. more than likely Susan. Though while i can imagine Roland Dying peacefully in the Callas, i can't imagine him even living in New York, let alone spending the rest of his life there.
Maybe he will meet his Susan in another world and they will be happy somewhere...
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Rosalita, you mean?
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is only one salvation for Roland, and that salvation is death.
But to achieve salvation there must be redemption.
If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
See the turtle, aint he keen? All things serve the fucking beam-Eddie of NewYork
You burn prettily-Corwin of Amber
why do say that? death is the only option?
I'm not high on the "he has to die" thing. I do not believe the actual top of the Tower is death for Roland (at least I hope not)
This entire thing is a cycle, I'm not convinced (at this point) that the Tower is even in jeopardy if Roland is not trying to save it.
I don't think that death is the salvation because for my part I am sure that Roland can die anytime during the loop.
Roland would have understood.
Death is not salvation. Death is death. But
to conquer death
you only have to die
you only have to die...
[off topic]
forgot to list it when asked about favorite musicals! will edit when bearwife gives me back the computer
[/off topic]
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just bumping this thread as Jackie's thread is more or less a companion to it. Whilst Jackie's discusses what we thought we would see, Monte's asks what we think he will see on his final loop (if you think he will ever end looping )
Cheers!
My mind changes daily on whether or not Roland will end the loop...doesn't matter too much for this thread anyway.
I still like the idea of him reaching the clearing, where he is reunited with everyone who he calls out as he walks towards the Tower.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah
The other thing you have to think about would be then would Mordred then exist? and etc. with everyone he touched/killed. too much to think about
as for the original question...
one possibility could be that this IS his salvation... SK mentioned we should all know that it is the JOURNEY we live for, not the ending. Roland just doesn't realize it, not only that but he can continue to see Jake, Eddie, Suze, and Oy, the ones he loved. (personally i don't think that is it, just throwing it out there)
Letti's
I agree there.I don't think that death is the salvation because for my part I am sure that Roland can die anytime during the loop.
But the beam over Gilead fell before he decided to save it (correct me if i'm wrong it has been a while since i've read those parts) and LONG before his "restart" in the desert.Matt:: I'm not high on the "he has to die" thing. I do not believe the actual top of the Tower is death for Roland (at least I hope not)
This entire thing is a cycle, I'm not convinced (at this point) that the Tower is even in jeopardy if Roland is not trying to save it.
I agree entirely with Jayson.
I have always imagined that death is at the top of the Tower for Roland. But to appreciate that, I guess it depends on your own opinion of death. To me it would be a release, a relief and a comfort to Roland - especially if you consider that at that moment in time he is aware of all the loops he has been on.
I'd love to see him in the Calla with Rosa, but I don't think he could ever truly happily do that, he'd be like a soldier back from Vietnam - unable to equate his new peaceful life with everything he's done and seen.