i always assumed it was a hypothetical and that no real kitties were harmed in the formulation of the theory. if he really did it, i have no idea. i do love joke's about changing an outcome through observation though
Hmmm...I'm not sure its solved that easily for me.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
nope, that's the answer, accept it.
First time I've been in this thread...and lo and behold!...everything I was going to say has been said by Jayson and Brice
shocking lisa, just shocking
I see...so the common belief is that the "history" behind when they drew Jake is not relevant because the loop was closed.
Basically that it doesn't matter?
Last edited by Letti; 03-08-2008 at 02:52 AM. Reason: I vanished my own spoiler tags because I realised there wasn't spoiler here.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
not in my estimation... maybe it didn't "matter" in that jake still lived, but it still mattered bc he and Roland both remember the droppage so it goes to the trust they have to re-establish. jake has to learn to trust roland with his life all over again bc he remembers that once he was betrayed to his "death" even if he didn't die for keeps.
So no body under the mountains right?
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.
It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet
I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis
I have to also agree with what has already been said and add that is is only possible because Jake was not from Keystone Earth. If he had then you could not have two Jake time lines since time only runs forward and once lost to/from the Keystone world its always lost.
As for a body under the mountain, I 'think' the answer is no, but I need to meditate on that one a bit longer as there is a way, theoretically speaking that there is a body that was Jakes but is not Jake. Theres a concept called conifold transitions that 'may' allow strings (as in String theory in physics) to be protected from influencing the dimensions around them as they collapse through a base dimension point, thus prevent a rip in dimensional sub-spaces. Now extend the possibility of such an event happening through a process Einstein loved to term 'spookiness' in which a single atom can be in two places with the same states at the same time. Now expand the whole thing up to two Jakes existing at one time, in order to prevent a temporal rip could a conifold transition take place around the Jake under the mountain to prevent the divergent time lines of another Jake in the same dimensional multi-verse. Hmm maybe I'll change my dissertation to this instead!
Would that include the meeting at the Gogatha?Correct, no body under the mountains. All of that never happened after Roland stopped Mort from pushing Jake.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
I wouldn't advice anyone to go hunting for it anyway, or for any other conclusive artefacts of time loop aftermath. Paradox may grow exponentially, and I am afraid nobody can know what it might lead to.
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know I was just stunned by this revelation.
Everything is always relevant....even if it isn't. It all matters.
There is absolutely a body under the mountains in my estimation and it IS Jake's.
Well, it still both did and didn't happen I believe. It is just useless information to the continuance of the story beyond the bond and trust issues between Roland and Jake.
I don't think this disallows Jake being from Keystone Earth. Remember Roland is as confused by the two time lines as Jake is in his own world. Even though time and space in Roland's world are moving on there is nothing to my recollection to indicate that time runs in any way, but forward. If the two time lines can exist in Roland's world I don't see why they can't in Jake's. Really the two timelines exist only in their memories for our purposes right here and are only awaiting resolution to sorta' negate one or the other at this point in the story.
Why might there be a temporal rip at all caused by Jake existing at two places at the same time? I'll admit the concept of conifold transition is new to me so maybe I'm missing something, but I see no need for any sort of temporal rip in dimensions. Or then...perhaps that's precisely what the doors and todash space are in our terms?
Originally Posted by TerribleT
Which never happened cause he knew no Jake to go looking for in New York because he never met him at a way station???
Well, if he never met Jake at the way station then he never sacrificed him at Walter's bidding which was Walter's price for the palaver. Maybe he also never found doorways on a beach? Or saved a tower? Maybe he's still back at Brown's? Or never left the desert?
I think it all happened.
...and here is where our opinions seperate my friend.
wise words.
Spoiler:
like i said brice, it's no more than a guess when it comes to the body. i'm not at all sure how it worked with jake's deaths and where the bodies go [that's why i brought up callahan earlier]. there very well could be dead jake under the mountains. i say it's another cat and by looking for it we change the outcome.
Same here--is truly fascinating.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
It really is. I love that there are so many threads that force you to think in new ways around here.
glad you started this one matt, this has been a good one for sure
Matt gives good thread.
"It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.
"When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah