Swine Flu Vaccine

[Jean]

I've had most of them for a few years by now.

yeah, i'm pretty sure those are the symptoms for a condition known as life.

But it is lethal.

[LadyHitchhiker]

I've had most of them for a few years by now.

yeah, i'm pretty sure those are the symptoms for a condition known as life.

But it is lethal.

You guys made me laugh out loud.

Yeah based on these symptoms just about anyone could say they have the swine flu.

Haven't started oinking yet, though

And yeah I've had a certain amount of those off and on for my life, too!

[Patrick]

I've had most of them for a few years by now.

yeah, i'm pretty sure those are the symptoms for a condition known as life.

But it is lethal.

You guys are cracking me up.

[John Blaze]

i don't know, but all of a sudden i have the irresistible impulse to roll in the mud.

[Patrick]

Now don't make me start posting still photos from "Deliverance."

[John Blaze]

"squeal like a pig, boy!"

[Daghain]

Okay, serious question time.

Obviously, in my parents' time (I was born in 1966, ancient, I know!), you just did what the doctor told you, so of course I got all the recommended vaccinations.

I don't have kids, so maybe I've missed a meeting somewhere, but honestly, WTF? I had to have a re-do of my MMR when I went to college, in 2001 (at the age of 35), because they discovered my original batch was "bad" (and let me say honestly, I was seriously pissed that I could have contracted any of those diseases because I had not been immunized correctly and was totally fine with another shot). I could NOT attend college without this vaccine. (I'm guessing Colorado State University is not the only college that requires basic immunizations to attend).

Back a few years ago when the gov't was screaming about a potential biological warfare smallpox invasion, I was smugly smiling knowing I'd already had the smallpox vaccine (which apparently stopped around 1971 - there's a ton of you who constantly ask me, "What is that scar on your arm?"). Maybe I'm just too programmed by my childhood, but quite honestly I'm happy I've been immunized and I would probably never question my own (hypothetcial) child's immunization schedule.

So, I'm seriously asking, what, exactly, is so frightening about vaccines? I understand a small percentage of the population may have side effects, but overall, why is there such an anti-vax movement going on? Seems to me, if you know your kid is going to have to have them sooner or later (if they want to attend school, college especially but I remember clearly this was a requirement for me to attend grade school as well; maybe times have changed, I don't honestly know; this seems to be a requirement of most colleges, AFAIK), then why not get it over with when they are young?

I get not doing the random flu-of-the-year shots, because I think the flu changes too much to make the vaccine any kind of useful (and I'm still undecided about the cervical cancer vaccine, although I think I probably *would* give it to my hypothetical daughter, although I'll admit I'd probably wait a year or two unless that cancer ran in my family, which, currently, it does not), but I'm seriously curious as to why some of you are so up in arms about the whole vaccine issue.

Enlighten me, people. I believe in herd immunity - once the majority of the herd is not vaccinated, anything can run rampant. So tell me why I'm wrong. I'm seriously curious.

[Melike]

Okay, serious question time.

Obviously, in my parents' time (I was born in 1966, ancient, I know!), you just did what the doctor told you, so of course I got all the recommended vaccinations.

I don't have kids, so maybe I've missed a meeting somewhere, but honestly, WTF? I had to have a re-do of my MMR when I went to college, in 2001 (at the age of 35), because they discovered my original batch was "bad" (and let me say honestly, I was seriously pissed that I could have contracted any of those diseases because I had not been immunized correctly and was totally fine with another shot). I could NOT attend college without this vaccine. (I'm guessing Colorado State University is not the only college that requires basic immunizations to attend).

Back a few years ago when the gov't was screaming about a potential biological warfare smallpox invasion, I was smugly smiling knowing I'd already had the smallpox vaccine (which apparently stopped around 1971 - there's a ton of you who constantly ask me, "What is that scar on your arm?"). Maybe I'm just too programmed by my childhood, but quite honestly I'm happy I've been immunized and I would probably never question my own (hypothetcial) child's immunization schedule.

So, I'm seriously asking, what, exactly, is so frightening about vaccines? I understand a small percentage of the population may have side effects, but overall, why is there such an anti-vax movement going on? Seems to me, if you know your kid is going to have to have them sooner or later (if they want to attend school, college especially but I remember clearly this was a requirement for me to attend grade school as well; maybe times have changed, I don't honestly know; this seems to be a requirement of most colleges, AFAIK), then why not get it over with when they are young?

I get not doing the random flu-of-the-year shots, because I think the flu changes too much to make the vaccine any kind of useful (and I'm still undecided about the cervical cancer vaccine, although I think I probably *would* give it to my hypothetical daughter, although I'll admit I'd probably wait a year or two unless that cancer ran in my family, which, currently, it does not), but I'm seriously curious as to why some of you are so up in arms about the whole vaccine issue.

Enlighten me, people. I believe in herd immunity - once the majority of the herd is not vaccinated, anything can run rampant. So tell me why I'm wrong. I'm seriously curious.

I want to thank to Daghain for asking this. It was on my mind from the first time I've read this thread. It is all same protocol here. So I really wonder your answers curiously.

[John Blaze]

Okay, serious question time.

Obviously, in my parents' time (I was born in 1966, ancient, I know!), you just did what the doctor told you, so of course I got all the recommended vaccinations.

I don't have kids, so maybe I've missed a meeting somewhere, but honestly, WTF? I had to have a re-do of my MMR when I went to college, in 2001 (at the age of 35), because they discovered my original batch was "bad" (and let me say honestly, I was seriously pissed that I could have contracted any of those diseases because I had not been immunized correctly and was totally fine with another shot). I could NOT attend college without this vaccine. (I'm guessing Colorado State University is not the only college that requires basic immunizations to attend).

Back a few years ago when the gov't was screaming about a potential biological warfare smallpox invasion, I was smugly smiling knowing I'd already had the smallpox vaccine (which apparently stopped around 1971 - there's a ton of you who constantly ask me, "What is that scar on your arm?"). Maybe I'm just too programmed by my childhood, but quite honestly I'm happy I've been immunized and I would probably never question my own (hypothetcial) child's immunization schedule.

So, I'm seriously asking, what, exactly, is so frightening about vaccines? I understand a small percentage of the population may have side effects, but overall, why is there such an anti-vax movement going on? Seems to me, if you know your kid is going to have to have them sooner or later (if they want to attend school, college especially but I remember clearly this was a requirement for me to attend grade school as well; maybe times have changed, I don't honestly know; this seems to be a requirement of most colleges, AFAIK), then why not get it over with when they are young?

I get not doing the random flu-of-the-year shots, because I think the flu changes too much to make the vaccine any kind of useful (and I'm still undecided about the cervical cancer vaccine, although I think I probably *would* give it to my hypothetical daughter, although I'll admit I'd probably wait a year or two unless that cancer ran in my family, which, currently, it does not), but I'm seriously curious as to why some of you are so up in arms about the whole vaccine issue.

Enlighten me, people. I believe in herd immunity - once the majority of the herd is not vaccinated, anything can run rampant. So tell me why I'm wrong. I'm seriously curious.

i believe i may love you now.

[jayson]

So, I'm seriously asking, what, exactly, is so frightening about vaccines? I understand a small percentage of the population may have side effects, but overall, why is there such an anti-vax movement going on?

it's a valid question dags.

since there is no one standard answer for why all people are opposed to vaccinations (or why all anyone does anything) i can't answer for anyone other than myself.

the short version of the answer is contained right in this part of what you said:

"...a small percentage of the population may have side effects."

given the severity of some of the potential side effects (seizures, deafness, coma, death) when it's my child, it is a very scary prospect to face.

while it was never my strong suit in college, i do understand statistics and probability and realize that the odds of my child being in the percentage to experience these negative effects is quite small. but, it is not zero, and rational or not, when it's not zero and it's your baby, it can be a daunting proposition.

additionally, as i mentioned previously, i personally question the statistical data itself. i cannot simply accept government studies from a government so beholden to pharmaceutical companies. call it conspiratorial if you wish, but under the bush administration, legislation was passed making it more difficult to bring any kind of legal action against the vaccine manufacturers for adverse effects of their products. when one considers that mr. bush's father is a former chairman of eli lily, that donald rumsfeld is the former chief of searle, and many many other high ranking members of the administration were previously high ranking members of pharmaceutical companies, it causes some concern that their thought processes might be based on something less than objective science. add in the number of congressional reps and senators who take millions of dollars from the pharmaceutical companies and what you have are studies that are simply too conflicted to be believed.

for instance, they can tell me all they want that aluminum in vaccines is harmless. they said the same for years about mercury in thimeresol and we know now that's not the case.

the collusion with the government also makes it increasingly difficult for generic vaccines to be developed or distributed widely enough to be available to everyone. we are facing this with the mmr vaccine. i am firmly opposed to the baby getting it as a single dose of all three. i question the safety of some of these so-called "vaccine cocktails." it is completely possible from a medical standpoint to break the mmr up into three separate shots. however, it is often impractical (or even impossible on a practical level) to do so. our pediatrician gets vaccines from a specific supplier. they sell it as one vaccine, period. there is no choice involved. additionally, even if we could obtain the vaccines in their three individual components (which would not be covered by our insurance and who knows how exorbitant that cost would be), it would necessitate three individual visits to the doctor. our insurance only covers a specific number of visits. like many people, we could not afford to pay for these "extra" visits out of pocket.

for the record, we have been vaccinating the baby, but on a schedule we devised with cooperation from our doctor. when looking for a pediatrician before ella was even born, we were not going to consider anyone who would not allow us to play a role in determining the vaccination schedule.

i know that doesn't really answer the question as to why large numbers of people are questioning the efficacy of vaccinations, but again i can only speak for me. i would suggest however, that as a whole, we are moving further and further from a societal model where people just do what their doctors or authority figures say without question. more and more people are doing their own research and asking their own questions. on the whole, i think this can only be a good thing for civilization.

[Melike]

Here, in the area I'm responsible of, there is not even one baby that is skipped mmr vaccine. And we have to go to their house and vaccinate the baby, if we find out one hadn't. And till now, I didn't experienced even one serious side effect.(though, I am not very experienced... )

In every operation you have, in every medicine treatment you get, there is always the same risk. Even the most innocent medicines have deathly risks...

[jayson]

you are absolutely right melike, with every medical procedure there are risks.

like i said, it may not always be the most rational response, but as a parent, it can be quite frightening to face those risks no matter how unlikely the possibility may be.

honestly, i viewed the issue completely differently two years ago. having a child has changed the way i look at a lot of things.

[alinda]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWfCnjnShnM"]YouTube - What's In A Flu Shot[/ame]

[Daghain]

Damn, alinda, I can't see that video at work (shakes fist at IT) I'll have to remember to check it out later.

And thanks, jayson. I knew I could get a straight answer out of you. But I have another question - I get that you're concerned about the side effects of any vaccine Ella gets, but aren't you more concerned about what might happen if you DIDN'T vaccinate her? I'm assuming your answer is yes based on the fact that you are vaccinating her.

And I totally agree you can't believe everything the government tells you.

[jayson]

And thanks, jayson. I knew I could get a straight answer out of you. But I have another question - I get that you're concerned about the side effects of any vaccine Ella gets, but aren't you more concerned about what might happen if you DIDN'T vaccinate her? I'm assuming your answer is yes based on the fact that you are vaccinating her.

you're correct, i am quite concerned about the what could happen if she wasn't vaccinated. in the end, you weigh one against the other and we decided to vaccinate her on a schedule we hope will reduce the possibility of adverse effects. still, every time one of those appointments comes up, i am an anxious mess.

And I totally agree you can't believe everything the government tells you.

"blind faith in your leaders or in anything will get you killed" - bruce springsteen

[Melike]

you are absolutely right melike, with every medical procedure there are risks.

like i said, it may not always be the most rational response, but as a parent, it can be quite frightening to face those risks no matter how unlikely the possibility may be.

honestly, i viewed the issue completely differently two years ago. having a child has changed the way i look at a lot of things.

I understand that. And it is the most righteous reason.

[rosie real]

you know, i was 17 when i got cervical cancer. i was lucky. it was treatable. but so many women aren't lucky. back then, nobody had heard of hpv. nobody knew that certain types of cervical cancer were caused by a virus. imagine how different my life would be if they had known 23 years ago what they know now. imagine if there had been a vaccine for hpv when i was a child. maybe i would have been able to have children. maybe not, cause there were some other issues. but maybe.

i never had measles. i never had mumps. i don't know if the vaccines kept me from getting them or not - i don't think anyone can ever really answer that question. but i do believe that vaccines are a good idea. and i'm strongly encouraging my god daughter's mother to discuss the hpv vaccine with her and her doctor.

all that said, i think blind faith (in anything) is dangerous. doing your own research and finding a doctor who is willing to listen to your viewpoint on your treatment (or your child's treatment) is, in my opinon, critical.

imagine if that vaccine had been available back then. . . .

[Patrick]

... having a child has changed the way i look at a lot of things.

QFT!

[LadyHitchhiker]

I speak from experience, that if they had had the meningitis vaccinations available for my little girl to take, then maybe she might not have died when she was 6 years old. We would have gladly taken the small risk of her not handling the vaccine as well as others, to have prevented her from dying.

[alinda]

I will seek and find you.
I shall take you to bed and have my way with you.

I will make you ache, shake & sweat until you moan & groan.

I will make you beg for mercy, beg for me to stop.

I will exhaust you to the point that you will be relieved when I'm finished with you.

And, when I am finished, you will be weak for days.

All my love,
The Flu

[ICry4Oy]

Hell, that almost makes me want to get the flu.

[alinda]

[Sam]

See, now if you had signed that Linda I'd be standing on your doorstep right this moment awaiting you with a rose in my teeth and a ribbon wrapped 'round me.

[jhanic]

I plan on getting the Swine flu shot when it becomes available for my age group (64+) although most of the authorities say that I'm at very low risk for actually getting the virus because back in the '50s a similar flu was epidemic. Why take the chance on getting the flu in the first place? I tutor first grade reading at one of the local inner city schools, so I'm in contact with possible carriers all the time.

John

[tamez]

i def. do not get the shot.
i get harassed at work about it from my co-workers
who are all convinced that it's god's gift...

our "sign up" sheet is posted in a public place
so they all can see that I never get it
and tell me i'm going to make them sick...

plus it's free. a local grocery store chain has
started providing it for free for all the teachers
that work in my district.
i don't freakin' care! i'm still not gonna get it and
really? how can anyone tell me i'm gonna make them
sick because i didn't get it... if they got it and if they believe it works?
hello?