The Right Profile: Discussion of Actors & Their Craft

[turtlex]

Yea... eventually I'm gonna sneak out of here quietly before I get flamed to bloody hell...but first, I have to comment - you so knew I would.

I just don't get the whole Bale thing. He's not that great an actor. He has his moments, but honestly, for every good movie he's done - he's done one equally as bad.

The DK voice was rediculous. It was stupid... Dude?!? You're in a mask. I would love to know who's idea that was. I am willing to bet it was not Nolan's. It comes off as completely cheesy to me.

And how can DK belong to anyone except Ledger. He steals every scene he's in.

Isn't saying Bale is the best Batman like saying ... never mind. We haven't exactly had a plethora of "good" Batm...Batmen to compare him with.

The Machinist - Meh. Weight loss. Wow. Gee.
The Prestige - Oh My ... I thought it was just so boring.

People... wanna see bad? He's got a list... Laurel Canyon. Captain Corelli's Mandolin. ( sorry sweetie ) the remake of Little Women. Reign of Fire. ???

Honestly, he sorta peaked with Newsies!

Okay, I'm out on the Bale thing now. I know you all love him, so I'm bowing out.



Yea... my movie snobbery is definitely showing.

[candy]

Yea... eventually I'm gonna sneak out of here quietly before I get flamed to bloody hell...but first, I have to comment - you so knew I would.

I just don't get the whole Bale thing. He's not that great an actor. He has his moments, but honestly, for every good movie he's done - he's done one equally as bad.

The DK voice was rediculous. It was stupid... Dude?!? You're in a mask. I would love to know who's idea that was. I am willing to bet it was not Nolan's. It comes off as completely cheesy to me.

And how can DK belong to anyone except Ledger. He steals every scene he's in.

Isn't saying Bale is the best Batman like saying ... never mind. We haven't exactly had a plethora of "good" Batm...Batmen to compare him with.

The Machinist - Meh. Weight loss. Wow. Gee.
The Prestige - Oh My ... I thought it was just so boring.

People... wanna see bad? He's got a list... Laurel Canyon. Captain Corelli's Mandolin. ( sorry sweetie ) the remake of Little Women. Reign of Fire. ???

Honestly, he sorta peaked with Newsies!

Okay, I'm out on the Bale thing now. I know you all love him, so I'm bowing out.



Yea... my movie snobbery is definitely showing.

i love you for your snobbery

[Woofer]

Isn't saying Bale is the best Batman like saying ... never mind. We haven't exactly had a plethora of "good" Batm...Batmen to compare him with.

Exactly. Val Kilmer? George Clooney? Michael Keaton?

I'm not a Bale fanatic and I don't know who I would've chosen had I been in charge of casting, but I do think that he makes a better Batman and a better Bruce Wayne than anyone we've seen since ever.

IMO, since Batman doesn't have any "powers" and relies only on just training and gadgets, getting the actor right is critical. I agree about the voice issue, as I already mentioned, and while he wears a mask, it's just not enough of a disguise. I think he should mask his voice using a highly sophisticated digital voice synthesizer manufactured by the Wayne corporation and built into his suit.

And while HL stole the movie with his performance, other people and aspects were great as well. (ETA: Damn, I posted while not finished. I blame Mr. Woofer.) In fact, HL's performance alone being great would be less so were the others not complimentary. I think that the intricate plot also added to this. As a fan of a lot of bad movies, I can confidently state that a single performance, no matter how great, is rarely enough to save a movie. (Not to say that HL wasn't awesome. Srsly, Jack Nicholson should be fucking jealous. Jesus.) A diamond in a pile of shit is still in a pile of shit, and The Dark Knight was far from shit.

[Brice]

Even if they were though, Heath made them all look mediocre in comparison.

[candy]

i have a hard hat on when i say this but

Spoiler:

while HL was good, i dont get all the raves bout him in DK, and i feel that had he not died the reviews would not be as raving.

ok that me running out behind Pam

[Woofer]

i have a hard hat on when i say this but

Spoiler:

while HL was good, i dont get all the raves bout him in DK, and i feel that had he not died the reviews would not be as raving.

ok that me running out behind Pam

I agree with the second part of your spoiler comment.

[turtlex]

Okay, I gotta pop back in... on account of it being about Heath Ledger and not ... you know, that other guy in Dark Knight.

Spoiler:

I think what is absolutely amazing about Ledger's performance is the utter immersion in the role. He literally disappeared behind the make-up and still managed to project menace, hurt and evil.

I disagree, wholeheartedly, about the kudos coming because of his death. There was a lot of set talk and leaking of comments to the press, about Ledgers performance ... they were already talking Oscar, long before his unfortunate death.

[candy]

ok, runs in opposite directions away from Pam
i agree that HL did a fine job, what annoys is people who jumped on the band wagon, a lot of times not even seeing the film.

[Woofer]

I also agree with you, Pam, as strange as it may sound. I know it seems as if I am agreeing with everyone, but that's only because I believe parts of each.

Spoiler:

That is to say that I agree with HL's performance. I'm glad that I waited to see it (since I missed it in the theater, another story) because the hype around it had spoiled it a bit in advance. The cooling off period allowed me to come to the movie with a more receptive mind. (I feel like BW in the party giving the "I believe in Harvey Dent" speech. )

HOWEVER, death always brings out more commentary, more reviews, more people who claimed to know that he was going to come to this spot from the first second they saw him in Roar, etc. That's what I mean about his death fueling the raving reviews. What's the old joke? If you want your art to be successful, you need to die.

[turtlex]

Did anyone see Heath in "Candy"? Amazing.

[Still Servant]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents into the Bale discussion.

I don't think anybody mentioned Rescue Dawn. I thought that was an amazing film. I also really like Bale's performance in 3:10 to Yuma.

Also, it's never fair to list an actor's bad films. Every actor, no matter how good he or she is, has their fair share of clunkers. I dare anybody to name an actor that hasn't made a bad film.

[turtlex]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents into the Bale discussion.

I don't think anybody mentioned Rescue Dawn. I thought that was an amazing film. I also really like Bale's performance in 3:10 to Yuma.

Also, it's never fair to list an actor's bad films. Every actor, no matter how good he or she is, has their fair share of clunkers. I dare anybody to name an actor that hasn't made a bad film.

Spencer Tracy. Katharine Hepburn, too. I'll venture to Vivian Leigh, as well. And James Dean. All - Never made a bad film... or rather, never been bad in a film.

Actually, my theory is that there are a lot of really bad films, but that doesn't mean an actor has to be bad in them.

Gene Hackman is in a lot of bad movies, but he's always good in them. He can rise above. Dianne Wiest is the same way. Michael Caine is as well, at least very close ( hard to forgive Jaws:The Revenge ). Julie Walters comes to mind, too.

Regardless - I stand behind those I've mentioned.

[pathoftheturtle]

General actor criticism may not be apposite for this thread, but, while we're on it, I tend to agree with turtlex regarding great actors. Of course, it is also true that an actor can be good even if not perfect. It is wise to take a balanced view before you judge... but not wanting to jump to conclusions doesn't have to mean that it is never fair for one to form an opinions.

[Still Servant]

James Dean died before he was able to make a bad film.

I'd have to research the other actors bios in order to see if they had bad films. I'm sure they have a few that are just ehh.

Just because a film is in black & white doesn't make it good.

[turtlex]

James Dean died before he was able to make a bad film.

Oh. I didn't realize you'd had a qualifier there... is there a minimum number of movies you had in mind?!?

He made three films, btw, and was outstanding in all three of them. Playing three very different characters. All were in color.

I'd have to research the other actors bios in order to see if they had bad films. I'm sure they have a few that are just ehh.

The films may be "ehh" but the performances, I feel you'll find, were not. That was my point. That they could rise above.

Are you saying you've seen no films starring Spencer Tracy, Katharine Hepburn, Vivian Leigh or James Dean? Oh, and they made quite a few in color as well. Gone With The Wind? Color. Guess Who's Coming To Dinner? Color. Giant? Color.

Just because a film is in black & white doesn't make it good.

Nor does it mean they should be dismissed out right.

[Heather19]

James Dean died before he was able to make a bad film.

Oh. I didn't realize you'd had a qualifier there... is there a minimum number of movies you had in mind?!?

He made three films, btw, and was outstanding in all three of them. Playing three very different character. All were in color.

I'd have to agree with Pam about James Dean. I've seen a ton of his earlier work, he did a lot of those playhouse shows in the early 50's and he shined in them as well. Out of everything I've seen, I've never seen a poor performance come out of him. He really immerses himself in the role. I would even go so far as to say he was the greatest actor ever (but of course that is my own personal opinion). I'm not saying he would never have made a bad film in his career had he lived longer. But I just can not imagine getting a bad performance out of him.

Maybe we should start a new thread about actors and their craft since we seem to getting more and more sidetracked here. I'd actually love to see this discussion continue more.

[turtlex]

Heather, that's a great idea, re: new thread on actor's and their craft.

I'll see if I can get one of the mod's in this forum to start it and move these comments.

SS - I love talking this stuff with you so be sure to look for it.

[Darkthoughts]

Hmm, I'm not sure where I stand on HL's performance in DK either. It was good and I really enjoyed his performances as an actor in general, but his Joker didn't blow me away. I actually preferred Nicholson.

[jayson]

quite a bit of great conversation lately in one of the film threads has focused on actors and their performances.

that discussion warranted its own thread, so this is that, a thread for the discussion of actors and acting.

i'll be moving the relevant posts from the other thread here momentarily.

[turtlex]

jayson rocks. Thank you.

[jayson]

and chronologically, your post is first so you get thread-starter status on this one, so perhaps i should tell you good choice on the clash reference in the title.

[turtlex]

Oh, yeah, that was totally me !!!

[Darkthoughts]

Hey Feverino! How come your comment got sent to the archive?

To answer your comment, I'm not so sure HL did lose himself in the role. Personally I think he was able to relate to the role being so messed up at that point in his own life, I think the spin put on it by the film industry or the media - that is was the role that drove him over the edge - was really more shameful or possibly tasteless way to drum up publicity.

I agree, that Nicholson is always Nicholson whatever the role - but I found him so well suited to The Joker - almost comical, but utterly insane and dangerous because of it.

[turtlex]

( um, we had two of the same threads, so - zip, off one goes )

Just a quick note here... since we were talking about actors rising above crap movies - at least I was - a perfect example is Julie Walters in :gulp: Mamma Mia!. Yes, a movie with an exclamation point in it's title.

Now, granted, I'm a big Julie Walters fan. Ever since Educating Rita and her amazing performance in Billy Elliot. Now, I'm not sure if anyone here loved Mamma Mia! or not, but honestly - I think it's about the worst movie I've ever seen in recent years. And that includes 88 minutes with Al Pacino.

But, somehow, Julie Walters is able to rise above and bring a charm to her role. Given the movie, that's nothing short of a miracle.

( and honestly, I'm all for contemporary musicals - I loved RENT and really enjoyed Evita, and frankly - I like me some ABBA even, this movie is just painful for me to watch )

Quick suggestion - if anyone wants to see Meryl Streep sing, they should skip Mamma Mia! and stick around for the ending of Postcards From The Edge. Sincerely, that's an awesome movie, she's great in it, and it's funny as all get out. Plus, you get Shirley MacLaine in one of her best.

re: Jack. To me, sometimes he's not acting anymore, but just being Jack. That's not acting. If you can forget you're watching Jack, then that's acting.

[Darkthoughts]

I know what you mean completely, and I agree, I find Brad Pitt the same. But with the Joker, as with his role in One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest I thought he fit the character well enough for Jack and the character to be one and the same. I think delivery of lines and stance and an ability to compliment your fellow cast are also good acting qualities.