Random Comments/Stream of Consciousness Thread

[amd013]

Am reading comments online about disgust and fear and the word coup being thrown around; I'm disgusted, but certainly not afraid. This isn't a coup; that entails a coordinated effort to overthrow a government. I was living in the Philippines during one of those, trust me this isn't the same. A couple of thousand angry people rioting (sorry, can't call it a peaceful protest) on TV does not a coup make.

This is a bunch of idiots rioting because they can't understand, or simply don't want to believe, how much they've been lied to and have bought into every bit of it. They can't seem to grasp that the person screaming 'Foul!' loudest above the crowd is only doing so for his own benefit and that it's been lies from beginning to end. Did you see where Trump even turned on Pense today for finally telling the truth, and even Mitch McConnell said enough is enough?

Well, on the bright side all of Trump's hard work to undermine his own party's credibility has paid off by apparently costing the party the Senate, so much easier now to undo all the harm he's done. Thank you President Trump!

So yeah, finally after four years of this constant embarrassment and nonsense I think I'm finally on board with Make America Great Again ... because now we actually need it.

A part of me is afraid. I sense we may see protests and riots through out Biden's term. Trump will be bitching and moaning and inciting unrest for the rest of his life.

I also feel like I am walking on egg shells when around Trump voters, or someone I think might be a Trump voter. 5 years ago, was never really interested in talking politics, but since Trump I have been so frustrated through out, now (last 4.5 years) I want/need to vent, but don't know who it is safe to vent to without risking a friendship. (I know a few it is safe too).

Sigh

[George at C-Springs]

Yeah, isn't it amazing how people can make sense, provide facts, and do so in a calm manner without cursing, name-calling, or providing false accusations? GEORGE 2024.

Well, maybe a little name-calling with 'idiots', so to be fair I changed it to 'people'. As for 'George 2024', uh-uh, no way; I thought you liked me!

A part of me is afraid. I sense we may see protests and riots through out Biden's term. Trump will be bitching and moaning and inciting unrest for the rest of his life.

Don't be afraid, it doesn't help anything. There have been literally thousands of anti-Trump protests over the past 5 years; before that there were anti-Obama, and so on and so on. That's the price of Freedom of Speech. As for Trump continuing to incite unrest, well, that will only succeed if his party let's him and if people continue to listen. He's just another Senator Joe McCarthy who's voice and influence will fade as time passes and more about his actions becomes known. I don't think his supporters will have any choice but to distance and disavow themselves from him; despite the near even 50/50 split in politics right now, I'll bet thirty years down the road if you polled people the numbers who say they supported Trump would plummet.

[Randall Flagg]

[Hunchback Jack]

I agree with your assessment of the situation, George, but I still think it’s a coup.

If a group of people, even if it’s just a few thousand, attempt to overthrow the results of an election by force, that’s a coup. That is what happened yesterday. True, it’s not necessarily the type of coup that tends to be successful, but the intent was there, the organization was there, and it was instigated by a charismatic leader, for his benefit.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the motivations you described are spot on, and you might think I’m just quibbling over a word. But I think it’s important to call this out for what it was.

[George at C-Springs]

I agree with your assessment of the situation, George, but I still think it’s a coup.

If a group of people, even if it’s just a few thousand, attempt to overthrow the results of an election by force, that’s a coup. That is what happened yesterday. True, it’s not necessarily the type of coup that tends to be successful, but the intent was there, the organization was there, and it was instigated by a charismatic leader, for his benefit.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the motivations you described are spot on, and you might think I’m just quibbling over a word. But I think it’s important to call this out for what it was.

Hmmmm ... interesting thoughts, but I still disagree. Let me explain why.

An actual coup attempt requires much more than just a disjointed mob whose only goal seemed to be to get on camera, wave flags, sit in chairs, and pose for pictures. Were they there because they wanted (and seriously expected to) overturn the election results by seizing the seat of government, or were they there because they bought into the hype of a charismatic leader and were only interested in making a show and venting frustrations?

A true coup has several key elements; organization, coordination, planning, and most importantly the backing of a significant military force of some kind (police, army, militia, etc.). Once a coup attempt is made, if successful the aggressor must be prepared immediately to assume the seat of power and control the populace. That was most certainly not in the cards for yesterday, unless you were to entertain the thought that the Trump was directing the actions (I choose not to believe that, no matter my dislike for the man) and that the United States military would support him (completely out of the question).

In yesterday's case we had a haphazard (I saw no signs of true planning and coordination as far as an actual assault; there were no diversions or other significant tactical events surrounding this one) group overwhelm, by sheer numbers, a small and seemingly unprepared defensive force. The defensive force did not freely use weapons (they seemed extremely restrained to me), neither (for the most part, I gather) did the aggressors. Once access to the facility was gained, the aggressors made no obvious effort to accomplish a particular objective such as seize personnel, a particular location, nor did they make any serious effort to remain entrenched. Without a doubt they had no military force in place to enforce their position once they had gained access and control; all they did was roam the halls, randomly raise hell, and make a spectacle. They additionally had no singular spokesperson, and no attempt that I've heard of yet was made to actually wrest any type of control from the government.

Had they done any of those things, it would have been a simple matter of authorizing free use (versus restrained use) of deadly force to regain control of the facilty. The option of calling in military backup from any of the surrounding bases to reinforce security forces that slowly (oh so slowly) deployed might have been discussed for such a significant event. With use of deadly force authorized, this group more than likely would have crumbled with minimal resistance.

So while it was without a doubt a blemish on the country, a failing of the defense force, an embarrassment to the US on an international scale, possibly the beginning of the end of the Republican party, and quite astoundingly (after everything else) the one thing that Donald Trump will probably be remembered for, I just don't think it can be defined as a coup attempt. Represented as one in the media perhaps, but it just didn't meet the requirements.

Thankfully it's over, for now, and with any luck won't be repeated ... no matter how you define it.

George

[mae]

It was a failed coup because their intention was most definitely to disrupt ratifying the counting of the Electoral College votes and officially declaring Biden the winner and next president. In their little minds that would prevent the inauguration from taking place and Trump would remain in office. Similar to the failed 1991 coup in the Soviet Union, where communist hardliners wanted to preserve the old ways in light of democratic changes.

[Randall Flagg]

Most of California is locked down tighter than a bugs butt, but we were able to go to one of our favorite places.


Sunset today as viewed from our patio:

[Merlin1958]

I thought this was the "Random Thoughts", not the "General Political Discussion" thread ?

[Tommy]

Random thoughts encompasses political thoughts, no? Kind of hard to go off topic in a random thread, just saying....

[Merlin1958]

Random thoughts encompasses political thoughts, no? Kind of hard to go off topic in a random thread, just saying....

Sure it does, 1 or 3 posts, but its getting up there to the 5-6+ posts on 1 subject. All I'm saying. Just FYI. You all will do as you please.

[herbertwest]

Most of California is locked down tighter than a bugs butt, but we were able to go to one of our favorite places.


Sunset today as viewed from our patio:

What a view !

[Ari_Racing]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I'm intrigued by the chance of a new impeachment. Considering this government will be over in twelve days, what impact would it have?

[firemonkey66]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I'm intrigued by the chance of a new impeachment. Considering this government will be over in twelve days, what impact would it have?

It would prevent a traitor from ever holding office again.

[Ari_Racing]

Oh. That makes sense.

And this impeachment would be voted by the new senate or the ones that have been elected these days will start their functions from Jan 20 on?

[Iwritecode]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I've never understood this. There's soo much more to this website with literally hundreds of other threads/topics. Why limit yourself to just one sub-forum?

I never even pay attention to where I am on the site. I just click "new posts" and if a thread looks interesting, I'll click on it.

[herbertwest]

Oh. That makes sense.

And this impeachment would be voted by the new senate or the ones that have been elected these days will start their functions from Jan 20 on?

I read a crazy theory : imagine he gets impeached. And Pence then pardon him.
Would be absolutely crazy... but those days, who knows?

[herbertwest]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I've never understood this. There's soo much more to this website with literally hundreds of other threads/topics. Why limit yourself to just one sub-forum?

I never even pay attention to where I am on the site. I just click "new posts" and if a thread looks interesting, I'll click on it.

I pretty much only go through 3 or 4 subforums : The Oracle, Calvin Tower, Other authors you collect



Simply dont have enough time to do more.
Between work. My Club Stephen King social networks, my personal life.... simply dont have enough time.

Should take work off the equation, would be easier

[firemonkey66]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I've never understood this. There's soo much more to this website with literally hundreds of other threads/topics. Why limit yourself to just one sub-forum?

I never even pay attention to where I am on the site. I just click "new posts" and if a thread looks interesting, I'll click on it.

Me too, although I always seem to end up in the same ones

[George at C-Springs]

I've been out and exploring more areas of TDT lately; as I posted in one of those, I'm constantly surprised to see names of people I've never seen before who've been here much longer than I have and with thousands upon thousands of posts.

[Merlin1958]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I'm intrigued by the chance of a new impeachment. Considering this government will be over in twelve days, what impact would it have?

I see, so as long as you're posting Liberal rhettoric and bashing the outgoing administration, you may post anywhere and for however long the conversation continues. God forbid, you do not support that agenda or post any Trump/Republican information or opinion though. In that case the predominantly Libefral membership will fall upon you like a pack of wolves to make their standpoint "Right" and genenrally speaking, refer to you and yours as less educated, uninformed, clueless idiots. That about sum it up here?

[amd013]

Oh. That makes sense.

And this impeachment would be voted by the new senate or the ones that have been elected these days will start their functions from Jan 20 on?

I read a crazy theory : imagine he gets impeached. And Pence then pardon him.
Would be absolutely crazy... but those days, who knows?

After being thrown under the bus, not sure Pence would be inclined to pardon him. Besides, I am not sure if a pre-emptive pardon will stand up (not a lawyer, let alone a constitutional lawyer). But still pardons are only for federal crimes, which so far Trump hasn't been charged with, let alone convicted. It would not help Trump with any crimes he is charged with in regards to his call to Georgia as that is a state crime. Also I think the investigation in New York is also state.

Personally if I was friends or family of Trump, I would not want a pre-emptive pardon. It would make people assume you are guilty of something even if you have never been accused.

[racerx45]

Most of California is locked down tighter than a bugs butt, but we were able to go to one of our favorite places.


Sunset today as viewed from our patio:

Swinging by your favorite spot for to go beverages on the way home?

[Randall Flagg]

No. I'm on the Central Coast. No hotels in Napa or Sonoma county are booking "tourism" rooms.

[Tommy]

Well, it doesn't state a limit and several of us spend most of our time here at Calvin's Corner, so it's kinda our place to talk about anything, including politics.

I'm intrigued by the chance of a new impeachment. Considering this government will be over in twelve days, what impact would it have?

I see, so as long as you're posting Liberal rhettoric and bashing the outgoing administration, you may post anywhere and for however long the conversation continues. God forbid, you do not support that agenda or post any Trump/Republican information or opinion though. In that case the predominantly Libefral membership will fall upon you like a pack of wolves to make their standpoint "Right" and genenrally speaking, refer to you and yours as less educated, uninformed, clueless idiots. That about sum it up here?

What did you think of what happened at the Capitol, Bill?

[Randall Flagg]

Bill, your the first person to bring up the political discussion doesn't belong here. Seems to me that liberals, conservatives, and moderates have all said something in recent days.



If I feel maybe we should move on, then I'll post numerous (non-political) things to try and steer the randomness in another direction.