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Thread: The Saw Thread

  1. #51
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    SPOILER AHEAD

    sadly this series will continue. Saw IV was attrocious. I was having an argument with my friend over the saw series. He was telling me I was being too critical over it and I nit pick. I nit pick, the guy who loves movies like the Evil Dead trilogy and owns the DVD to the 1990 remake of Night of the Living Dead and has watched it numerous times, right.

    You SAW fans must agree that SAW IV made SAWs 2 and 3 pointless. Jeff died stupidly, the black cop from SAW IV died, detective Matthews died (making him surviving Amanda's trap and being saved by jigsaw pointless) and on top of that who is Hoffman and why the hell should I care? I think these games are getting out of control. It went from:

    A) two guys in a room, Zep holding a family hostage

    to

    B) Ten (was it ten?) people in an old house

    to

    c) A guy with various trapped people going through an old warehouse thing.

    to

    d) cop goes through the city finding people trapped all over the place.

    It's just outrageous, in my opinion. They need to go back to basics. Since when did people's lives rely in someone else's hands? Doesn't that make jigsaw's came pointless? I know Amanda had a trap where she had to kill to survive but Jeff gets to pick who survives and who dies. If Jigsaw thinking some woman driving by who witnessed Jeff's kid get hit and not reporting/testifying is enough of a reason to put her up naked to freeze to death, then he truly is crazy.


    As a horror fan and a fan of the first two movies I've thought the series has gone steadily downhill. SAW III was alright, but not as entertaining as the second or as gritty as the original. SAW IV was good up until the title of the movie came up (blind vs deaf was cool) but it felt so, uninspired, is the correct word.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    SPOILER AHEAD

    sadly this series will continue. Saw IV was attrocious.
    Only the end ruined it. Otherwise, I think it was still better than 2. The ONLY good thing about 2 was Shawnee Smith.

    You SAW fans must agree that SAW IV made SAWs 2 and 3 pointless.
    It made them illogical.

    who is Hoffman and why the hell should I care?
    Of course that could be said of anyone in just about any movie.

    I think these games are getting out of control. It went from:

    A) two guys in a room, Zep holding a family hostage

    to

    B) Ten (was it ten?) people in an old house

    to

    c) A guy with various trapped people going through an old warehouse thing.

    to

    d) cop goes through the city finding people trapped all over the place.

    I'd like to point out that II wasn't even a SAW movie. It was turned into a SAW movie. That's why it feels so out of joint.

    This film originally came from a script by the director Darren Lynn Bousman which was called "The Desperate". After trying for years to get it made but being told repeatedly that it was too violent, finally a company wanted to do it because they suspected "Saw" which was becoming a hit at Sundance might blow out big and they wanted to capitalize on its success. Some producers even described Bousman's script as "Too Saw-ish". Just before he was about to close a deal to make the movie, Saw (2004) opened huge at the box-office and the next day he received a call, and the producers asked if he could change it around to "Saw 2". Leigh Whannel (who wrote the first "Saw") was then brought on a little later to help Bousman with creating his original idea into a proper sequel to "Saw".
    It's just outrageous, in my opinion. They need to go back to basics. Since when did people's lives rely in someone else's hands? Doesn't that make jigsaw's came pointless? I know Amanda had a trap where she had to kill to survive but Jeff gets to pick who survives and who dies. If Jigsaw thinking some woman driving by who witnessed Jeff's kid get hit and not reporting/testifying is enough of a reason to put her up naked to freeze to death, then he truly is crazy.
    Uhm. Our lives are in other people's hands all the time. Also, was there EVER any doubt that Jigsaw was batshit insane?

    As a horror fan and a fan of the first two movies I've thought the series has gone steadily downhill. SAW III was alright, but not as entertaining as the second or as gritty as the original. SAW IV was good up until the title of the movie came up (blind vs deaf was cool) but it felt so, uninspired, is the correct word.
    I disagree. I rank them as I, III, IV, II.
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    SPOILER AHEAD

    Jeff died stupidly
    That is the one thing that I agree with. I was so excited when he walked on screen in Saw IV, only to be shot 3 times by Strahm. What a waste of an excellent character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    on top of that who is Hoffman and why the hell should I care?
    If you're serious, I'll explain. Hoffman was the police detective who's been "helping" JigSaw since Saw III. Being that Saw III and IV are happening at the same time, it hasn't been that long. Why or how he is helping JigSaw has yet to be revealed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Since when did people's lives rely in someone else's hands? Doesn't that make jigsaw's came pointless?
    There are two answers to this:

    1. Jeff had to choose to let them die or live depending on if he felt they deserved to. In a way, just like Rigg, I believe that JigSaw was going to have one of them take over his "work" when he died depending if they

    2. The victims lives rely in other peoples hands (aka unescapable traps) because Hoffman is most likely rigging them to make them unescapable. This too has yet to be revealed why.
    A NEW GAME BEGINS

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post

    Only the end ruined it. Otherwise, I think it was still better than 2. The ONLY good thing about 2 was Shawnee Smith.
    I disagree, I thought SAW II is about the most entertaining of them all if you just want to see a big game. I love the twist at the end of that movie and the ending. Also like how it was just like the original, it was just more intricate. Still had that claustraphobic atmosphere. SAW IV lost that, with people going through the whole city.

    Of course that could be said of anyone in just about any movie.
    It was in the delivery. That was the twist? This guy who got hardly any air time to allow me to even give two craps about him is Jigsaw's partner? YAWN, boring. At least Amanda working with Jigsaw in the second was a good twists. Don't know Hoffman, don't care about Hoffman...knowing the writers he'll die in the opening scene of the next movie.

    I'd like to point out that II wasn't even a SAW movie. It was turned into a SAW movie. That's why it feels so out of joint.
    SAW IV didn't feel like a SAW movie at all. SAW had more elements from the original than 3 and 4.

    This film originally came from a script by the director Darren Lynn Bousman which was called "The Desperate". After trying for years to get it made but being told repeatedly that it was too violent, finally a company wanted to do it because they suspected "Saw" which was becoming a hit at Sundance might blow out big and they wanted to capitalize on its success. Some producers even described Bousman's script as "Too Saw-ish". Just before he was about to close a deal to make the movie, Saw (2004) opened huge at the box-office and the next day he received a call, and the producers asked if he could change it around to "Saw 2". Leigh Whannel (who wrote the first "Saw") was then brought on a little later to help Bousman with creating his original idea into a proper sequel to "Saw".
    And Alien 3 was originally supposed to be on a wooden planet. What was planned doesn't matter to the final project. I'm sure he got to make the movie he wanted while adding to the series.

    Uhm. Our lives are in other people's hands all the time. Also, was there EVER any doubt that Jigsaw was batshit insane?
    No, Jigsaw is pretty sane. It's his utter saneness that makes him appear insane. He just has a real skewed perspective on humanity and life, but there is a method to his madness and morals to boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky
    If you're serious, I'll explain. Hoffman was the police detective who's been "helping" JigSaw since Saw III. Being that Saw III and IV are happening at the same time, it hasn't been that long. Why or how he is helping JigSaw has yet to be revealed.
    I know who he is and what he did. I just meant, why should I care? Right after they successfully kill off every character to have been in the series they throw in a lame twist, 'hey, see this guy...*snicker* he's Jigsaw's buddy...bet you didn't see that coming'. Very lacklustre twists, which the other three movies at least ended on a strong note.
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  5. #55
    S P I R A L Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky has a brilliant future Ricky's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    I just meant, why should I care? Right after they successfully kill off every character to have been in the series they throw in a lame twist, 'hey, see this guy...*snicker* he's Jigsaw's buddy...bet you didn't see that coming'. Very lacklustre twists, which the other three movies at least ended on a strong note.
    Yeah, I felt the same way when I was sitting in the theater waiting for "the big twist". I wasn't suprised. It just seemed to obvious. On another note, because he didn't get alot of screen time, I didn't care that he was the accomplice either. However, I do have faith in Saw V.

    I'm pretty ecstatic that Bousman's gone.
    A NEW GAME BEGINS

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post

    Only the end ruined it. Otherwise, I think it was still better than 2. The ONLY good thing about 2 was Shawnee Smith.
    I disagree, I thought SAW II is about the most entertaining of them all if you just want to see a big game. I love the twist at the end of that movie and the ending. Also like how it was just like the original, it was just more intricate. Still had that claustraphobic atmosphere. SAW IV lost that, with people going through the whole city.

    Of course that could be said of anyone in just about any movie.
    It was in the delivery. That was the twist? This guy who got hardly any air time to allow me to even give two craps about him is Jigsaw's partner? YAWN, boring. At least Amanda working with Jigsaw in the second was a good twists. Don't know Hoffman, don't care about Hoffman...knowing the writers he'll die in the opening scene of the next movie.

    I'd like to point out that II wasn't even a SAW movie. It was turned into a SAW movie. That's why it feels so out of joint.
    SAW IV didn't feel like a SAW movie at all. SAW had more elements from the original than 3 and 4.

    This film originally came from a script by the director Darren Lynn Bousman which was called "The Desperate". After trying for years to get it made but being told repeatedly that it was too violent, finally a company wanted to do it because they suspected "Saw" which was becoming a hit at Sundance might blow out big and they wanted to capitalize on its success. Some producers even described Bousman's script as "Too Saw-ish". Just before he was about to close a deal to make the movie, Saw (2004) opened huge at the box-office and the next day he received a call, and the producers asked if he could change it around to "Saw 2". Leigh Whannel (who wrote the first "Saw") was then brought on a little later to help Bousman with creating his original idea into a proper sequel to "Saw".
    And Alien 3 was originally supposed to be on a wooden planet. What was planned doesn't matter to the final project. I'm sure he got to make the movie he wanted while adding to the series.

    Uhm. Our lives are in other people's hands all the time. Also, was there EVER any doubt that Jigsaw was batshit insane?
    No, Jigsaw is pretty sane. It's his utter saneness that makes him appear insane. He just has a real skewed perspective on humanity and life, but there is a method to his madness and morals to boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky
    If you're serious, I'll explain. Hoffman was the police detective who's been "helping" JigSaw since Saw III. Being that Saw III and IV are happening at the same time, it hasn't been that long. Why or how he is helping JigSaw has yet to be revealed.
    I know who he is and what he did. I just meant, why should I care? Right after they successfully kill off every character to have been in the series they throw in a lame twist, 'hey, see this guy...*snicker* he's Jigsaw's buddy...bet you didn't see that coming'. Very lacklustre twists, which the other three movies at least ended on a strong note.
    I actually have a lot to say, but it is hard to think with non-stop talking going on in your ears. And I mean that literally. Non fucking stop.

    I will say that your pointing out Alien 3 wasn't supposed to be an Alien movie explains a lot. It had potential, but it flushed potential down the toilet and chose, instead, to suck hugely.

    Sorry, I usually like to explain more, as you can see, but I srsly cannot think.
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


  7. #57
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    For those of you who care, the Saw V teaser poster and trailer have been released:

    Teaser Trailer:

    http://saw5.com/

    Teaser Poster:

    A NEW GAME BEGINS

  8. #58
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    ::waits for turtlesong to find this thread and have a lengthy discussion with me::
    A NEW GAME BEGINS

  9. #59
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    I've read entire thread. I see there is not much people who loves these series.
    It's about expectations I thing.
    I like SAW movies(yes, all of them), and first one was really good and best of all, to me. I never think these would be cult movies or valuable piece of art, but they are fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    I, obviously, have watched it, but didn't find any message, not especially any nice one.
    Life is valuable and everything that's good around us we handle as they are natural and we are dreaming of more and more and more. And when we get it we start to dream again and nothing is enough. We should love to live and we should see the nice sides of your lives. We can see and feel them just after we have lost them.
    Isn't it a nice message? Even if it's put into a bloody movie?
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frunobulax View Post
    We need some levity now.

    "I cried when I saw a man with no shoes. But then I saw a man with no feet....and I laughed really really hard."
    -Jerri Blank
    Although Letti's story is very touching, yours is more to the point. The excalation of horrors and pseudo-psychological thrill in the movie was such it very soon became ludicrous.

    And, Nikolett - no, it doesn't make the shitty movie better. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. There's nothing wrong in seeing good things in poor movies, but trying to watch something really good might be a nice change (and killing more than one bird with one stone)
    But dearest Jean, why is a movie good? Because you think and feel it is. It comes from you soul. Everything is born there. In your mind and in your soul. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. Absolutely ture but it's true about all the movies and books and stories and so on.
    For you if someone says somethng clever or valuable in a shit movie it's still shit. Because your personality needs more to accept something as good.
    For me if someone says something interesting or deep in a shit movie I say "Hey, what has she just said?" or "What a minute, what has he just done?" and I start to think of it... and it makes it better for me.
    I read a horrible book for 300 pages and it was so boring it's a surprise I could finish it at all. (It's a very famous Hungarian book and I felt I had to read it why the blue hell people were crazy about it.) And the last line of the book was incredibly good.
    And altought the whole book was a bag of shit because of the last line I was it's worth to read it and it's an okay book.

    My Moon would agree with you. He says a last line of a book can't make a book good. For him or you not. For me it's possible.

    Many people don't like coffee. Me neither. But if I put lots of sugar in it I can drink it. It becomes drinkable moreover it's good however I can feel tat speciel coffee taste I don't like.
    Most of the people who don't like coffee won't like or drink it with lots of sugar, either. They say it's still horrible.
    Here, I can understand you well, Letti.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruthful View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    What do you think about this movie?
    I am not interested in horror movies very much I hardly ever watch them... but this one. The idea in it is so great.
    I like the idea as well.

    The concept of a sanctimonious psychopath who uses various forms of torture in order to force people into accepting his twisted notion of do-gooderism is intriguing. My problem with the movie-and I'll admit that I only saw one of the film's sequels, but I'm assuming it was nearly identical to the original movie-is the poor execution. Poor casting, no thematic development-it's basically the same idea on spin cycle-and no genuine conflict.

    I thought Hostel was far superior for a number of reasons. It had not only one but several compelling plot points. The premise of the film, i.e. that there could be a secret torture chamber, catering to Western sadists and which is countenanced by the local authorities, located in an EU nation :eye roll: is beyond stupid, but the underlying themes of the film are interesting.

    1. That the profusion of degrading, atomizing pornography accessible through modern channels has desensitized our society-or at least a large portion of it-to the point where we need to seek pleasure in something that literally turns our fellow man into a piece of meat-this also conjures up the unresolved questions of Europe's relationship to The Holocaust, and makes you search deeper for an explanation as to how/why so many individuals would be able to dehumanize another race so completely and utterly without resort to their own conscience. Does this imply that the thing we call a "conscience" is not biologically innate? Or that it does not exist at all? If so, what does that say about us as a species?

    2. The utter credulity-some would describe it as ignorance-of Western, but in particular American, tourists. The idea that Americans have such a deluded view of how human nature operates-because we are so isolated from the depredations and horrors that are ubiquitous throughout most of the world-that we expose ourself to those very threats whenever we encounter the baser, more feral aspects of life. This reminds me of a store-owner near me whose sister relayed an anecdote about a crime that happened in her home county in China, where a businessman had his organs stolen from him when he went to use a restroom. We usually think of naive, stupid Americans in this role, e.g. Rachel Corrie, Lori Beronson, etc.,but the theme of Hostel could be applied just as easily to any prosperous, overly civilized Western country, e.g. Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the countries of Western and Central Europe, etc...

    I think the casting, direction, and most of the technical aspects of Hostel outshine Saw, which is why I think it's a much better film in addition to the aforementioned reasons.
    Ruthful, I agree with you. Though I like Saw movies, Hostel was more different. Especially Hostel: Part II. There are more things about human nature, in it.

  10. #60
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    What I really hated was the fact that the end of Saw III, which I liked, was never resolved. Guy kills Jigsaw out of revenge, he's told he has to play a game to save his daughter. 2 seconds later, guy gets shot, and girl is rescued by Hoffman. Oh, I almost forgot, this 30 seconds or so took parts of 3 different movies to play out. That sucked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
    What I really hated was the fact that the end of Saw III, which I liked, was never resolved. Guy kills Jigsaw out of revenge, he's told he has to play a game to save his daughter. 2 seconds later, guy gets shot, and girl is rescued by Hoffman. Oh, I almost forgot, this 30 seconds or so took parts of 3 different movies to play out. That sucked.
    I get that and the other faultfindings about the movie. I agree these, but I am trying to say, I just find them entertaining. First one was really promising, so we all have had great expectations. But they just keep on repeating the same things.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frunobulax View Post
    We need some levity now.

    "I cried when I saw a man with no shoes. But then I saw a man with no feet....and I laughed really really hard."
    -Jerri Blank
    Although Letti's story is very touching, yours is more to the point. The excalation of horrors and pseudo-psychological thrill in the movie was such it very soon became ludicrous.

    And, Nikolett - no, it doesn't make the shitty movie better. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. There's nothing wrong in seeing good things in poor movies, but trying to watch something really good might be a nice change (and killing more than one bird with one stone)
    But dearest Jean, why is a movie good? Because you think and feel it is. It comes from you soul. Everything is born there. In your mind and in your soul. It's all in the mind, soul and heart of the beholder. Absolutely ture but it's true about all the movies and books and stories and so on.
    For you if someone says somethng clever or valuable in a shit movie it's still shit. Because your personality needs more to accept something as good.
    For me if someone says something interesting or deep in a shit movie I say "Hey, what has she just said?" or "What a minute, what has he just done?" and I start to think of it... and it makes it better for me.
    I read a horrible book for 300 pages and it was so boring it's a surprise I could finish it at all. (It's a very famous Hungarian book and I felt I had to read it why the blue hell people were crazy about it.) And the last line of the book was incredibly good.
    And altought the whole book was a bag of shit because of the last line I was it's worth to read it and it's an okay book.

    My Moon would agree with you. He says a last line of a book can't make a book good. For him or you not. For me it's possible.

    Many people don't like coffee. Me neither. But if I put lots of sugar in it I can drink it. It becomes drinkable moreover it's good however I can feel tat speciel coffee taste I don't like.
    Most of the people who don't like coffee won't like or drink it with lots of sugar, either. They say it's still horrible.
    I think I agree with you Letti. To my thinking it's sort of like this: If you live a lousy miserable lonely life, unhappy all the time, but find a bit of happiness (maybe even love) at the end wasn't it worth it? I not only like bad movies, I'm quite fond of them. The worse they are the better. The only thing I can't stand is boring. It doesn't have to be particularly good though.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

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    I’ll be your friend forever


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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky View Post
    For those of you who care, the Saw V teaser poster and trailer have been released:

    Teaser Trailer:

    http://saw5.com/

    Teaser Poster:

    I can't wait to see this one, but I don't have time nowadays. Is there anybody who has seen it?

  14. #64
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    I've seen it, not quite as good as the others, but I really did like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
    What I really hated was the fact that the end of Saw III, which I liked, was never resolved. Guy kills Jigsaw out of revenge, he's told he has to play a game to save his daughter. 2 seconds later, guy gets shot, and girl is rescued by Hoffman. Oh, I almost forgot, this 30 seconds or so took parts of 3 different movies to play out. That sucked.
    I get that and the other faultfindings about the movie. I agree these, but I am trying to say, I just find them entertaining. First one was really promising, so we all have had great expectations. But they just keep on repeating the same things.
    Oh I find them entertaining too, I just think that things would have been 10 times better if they'd followed up on that cliffhanger.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Melike View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer View Post
    What I really hated was the fact that the end of Saw III, which I liked, was never resolved. Guy kills Jigsaw out of revenge, he's told he has to play a game to save his daughter. 2 seconds later, guy gets shot, and girl is rescued by Hoffman. Oh, I almost forgot, this 30 seconds or so took parts of 3 different movies to play out. That sucked.
    I get that and the other faultfindings about the movie. I agree these, but I am trying to say, I just find them entertaining. First one was really promising, so we all have had great expectations. But they just keep on repeating the same things.
    Oh I find them entertaining too, I just think that things would have been 10 times better if they'd followed up on that cliffhanger.
    Yes, that's right. I think they find the other way more easy to follow.

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