King and the "n" word

[BillyxRansom]

For those who are unclear, I am talking strictly about King's writings.

Then I don't really see where the question comes from; any word can be used if dictated by the inner necessity of a given work of art or piece of literature. The only limitation can be inside the writer himself: his taste, the depth of his understanding his own characters, his mastery of the language he writes in, and the like. N-word, c-word, k-word should not be used without necessity in a piece of fiction; but, then again, no words, even "weather" or "telephone", should be used there without necessity.

I'm only talking about reader reactions. even people who aren't necessarily fans, or may not even have an opinion on him, but just notice the usage of the word if they come upon it. For instance, not all black people who read him will understand that he's just trying to be authentic. That's all I'm trying to understand, 1. if he ever got any backlash for it, and 2. if not, how did he avoid it? Regardless if he meant it to be authentic and genuine and true to the character, some people take things the wrong way. Like the end of IT (the novel) not the movie, some people are just going to be offended by it.

But with like a word like that, which has been known to get people into some SERIOUS DEEP trouble for using it.. I wonder how he was able to avoid that kind of feedback. Despite the fact that he chooses his words carefully, a lot of people do and still get in deep trouble for it.

[jhanic]

I guess what you're saying is that there are some people out there who would take offense of the use of certain words no matter what the context. I agree. I remember not that long ago that there were certain people who wanted to ban The Adventures of Huck Finn because of the use of the "N" word, and there were also those who objected to To Kill a Mockingbird because of its portrayal of the blacks, irregardless of the era of which both works were set. To satisfy these people would have rendered the books worthless.

John

[LadyHitchhiker]

And there are people in Russia who want to ban the new Indiana Jones movie because they think it puts the communists into a bad light. I mean there will always be people who are offended or want to protest different art forms.

[Jean]

How do you mean, "want to ban"? There's no censorship here, not only within any reasonable limits; also, the absolute majority's inclinations are strictly anti-communist. I know there are people who are unhappy about it, and I personally would be, and often am, unhappy with anything anti-Russian I can see in American movies, especially if it is done out of sheer ignorance or for political reasons (which is often the same). If we're talking about a honest work of a serious author, however, the principle remains the same: books are not written with the purpose to please everybody, they are not Hallmark postcards.

[BillyxRansom]

Well said, jhanic and Jean.

I just was interested to know if there had ever been any crazed people who tried to attack King for his usage of the word. Like, has he seriously seen ZERO backlash? Because, unlike Lee Harper and surely Mark Twain, the authors of the aforementioned books, respectively, I've never heard of King getting any backlash for anything he has said in his books. I've heard plenty of stories of "you stole my idea!" but nothing criticizing him for bigotry or anything like that. Not saying that he should have, I just think it's odd that I can't remember a time that this happened, being that he's, pretty much, the most successful author probably ever.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

[jayson]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

Perhaps when white people deal with a few hundred years of slavery followed by a hundred more of legal segregation it will be an equitable comparison.

[John_and_Yoko]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

Perhaps when white people deal with a few hundred years of slavery followed by a hundred more of legal segregation it will be an equitable comparison.

It's a complicated thing--most whites today aren't guilty of any of that, and yet they might still be benefiting from all that injustice, even if they're not aware that they are.

So at what point do you draw the line?

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I'm surprised that this conversation is limited to the use of the so called "N word" *shivers*
I mean, did not Detta constantly use the phrase Honky MahFah, and other assorted white racist statements? Why is it that we don't talk about King's blatant use of the "H" word? "Nigga" is a word that is constantly used by the very group that condemns its use, often in an affectionate tone. This idea of a word having inherent negativity is absurd. Abusive language is not tolerable, but if the "N" word is so terrible, then so is Honky, Cracker, Whitebread etc. Why is it that only this word gets so much attention?

Perhaps when white people deal with a few hundred years of slavery followed by a hundred more of legal segregation it will be an equitable comparison.

Thats a load of crap. Look at Jews, mostly white. You want to talk about racism, lets talk about Native Americans, if you can find one that is. Racial statements are ALL unacceptable. If you cant see that then you dont understand racism at all.

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

Now that we have a black president in the US. I dont think that anyone can say that AA citizens are not getting a fair shake. Or any other race for that matter. If you want to discuss racism, why not reverse racism. Lets compare student loans. But I guess since I am white I deserve to pay back 160,000 dollars despite a 4.0 GPA. But I didnt qualify for scholarships. Look, I hate what was done to black people during the slavery era. If I could change it I would. But we cannot. Racism is racism, no matter who is being repressed. Don't tell me that I need to go around apologizing for something that even my grandfather was not a part of. Besides, women in this country were the last to be granted suffrage. So, why dont we say the "W" word instead of woman. They were the most recent group to be repressed.

[John_and_Yoko]

Now that we have a black president in the US. I dont think that anyone can say that AA citizens are not getting a fair shake. Or any other race for that matter. If you want to discuss racism, why not reverse racism. Lets compare student loans. But I guess since I am white I deserve to pay back 160,000 dollars despite a 4.0 GPA. But I didnt qualify for scholarships. Look, I hate what was done to black people during the slavery era. If I could change it I would. But we cannot. Racism is racism, no matter who is being repressed. Don't tell me that I need to go around apologizing for something that even my grandfather was not a part of. Besides, women in this country were the last to be granted suffrage. So, why dont we say the "W" word instead of woman. They were the most recent group to be repressed.

Or the "G" word, you know, for "girl," the biggest insult in the history of insults?

Anyway, I think we're getting off-topic here....

The thing is, there's institutionalized racism and there's individualized racism (I'm using "racism" as an umbrella term--it need not refer to race at all). On an individual level, there is no "reverse" racism--racism is racism regardless of who's committing it and who's being targeted. On an institutionalized level, there is reverse racism because there's one dominant group oppressing all others. All kinds are wrong because they divide rather than uniting.

Personally, though, I think it's becoming a bit of a cliche, Stephen King making every villain he has a racist (I'm exaggerating--I haven't read NEARLY everything he's written), as if we either need to know "this is a villain because he's racist" or else "this guy's racist because he's a villain." What about people who hate (or would indifferently kill) ANYBODY, regardless of what group they happened to belong to? I'd consider THAT the ultimate in villainy--but hey, at least he wouldn't be a racist, right?

[BROWNINGS CHILDE]

I do believe that racism in certain characters makes the character believable. I mean if Henry Bowers didnt hate Mike Hanlon as a black kid, his character would not have rang true. Though Henry hated everyone, he especially hated Mike and Stan.

[John_and_Yoko]

I do believe that racism in certain characters makes the character believable. I mean if Henry Bowers didnt hate Mike Hanlon as a black kid, his character would not have rang true. Though Henry hated everyone, he especially hated Mike and Stan.

Well, true--no one is the PERFECT villain as I described anyway. To do that you'd have to be evil for evil's sake, I'd think, which is for another thread....

No one's perfect, and there are racists out there. And there's a little balance in that not everyone who says something racist in King's works is THE villain.

[Jean]

Dear friends,

please, if your intention is discussing the aspects of racism in your society, do so in General Political Discussion, or if you think it deserves a separate thread, make one in Blue Heaven or Dixie Pig. The discussion here must be limited solely to King and his work, and though to make our position clear we do have to touch upon non-King issues as well, please do not let them grow out of proportion in this thread. Special thanks to J&Y for bringing the thread back to topic.

[LadyHitchhiker]

How do you mean, "want to ban"? There's no censorship here, not only within any reasonable limits; also, the absolute majority's inclinations are strictly anti-communist. I know there are people who are unhappy about it, and I personally would be, and often am, unhappy with anything anti-Russian I can see in American movies, especially if it is done out of sheer ignorance or for political reasons (which is often the same). If we're talking about a honest work of a serious author, however, the principle remains the same: books are not written with the purpose to please everybody, they are not Hallmark postcards.

At least that's what our news said, jean. But then again, we know how reliable my news media over here is.... :rolls eyes: