Who is the strongest from the ka-tet?

[Letti]

Who is the strongest from the ka-tet?
Of course just after Roland - that's why I didn't put him inti the pull - because I guess (but who knows) we all agree that Roland is the strongest.

[Jean]

Susannah. And no, not "after Roland". She is stronger, because she is freer. She can make decisions of her own, uninfluenced by prejudice or obsessions,

Spoiler:

and her final exit proves it.

[MonteGss]

I totally jumped in this thread with a solid ROLAND vote. Nice surprise, Letti!

My vote is for Eddie.

[Daghain]

I voted for Jake. That's one gutsy kid. Think about it,

Spoiler:

you're like 11 years old and leave your parents (okay, they're not great but still) for an unknown world, go back to the man who let you die once already, and end up a having a showdown with both the wolves and the denizens of the Dixie Pig.

That's tough, baby.

[Letti]

I totally jumped in this thread with a solid ROLAND vote. Nice surprise, Letti!

My vote is for Eddie.

[She-Oy]

I voted for Jake for pretty much the exact same reason Daghain stated.
He had the most unconditional love (after Oy of course) of them all. And now that I think of it, he was probably mentally the most mature of all of them.

[Wuducynn]

Easy vote. Susannah all the way.

[She-Oy]

I think Suze was only thrown in there to be a mother-like figure. I didn't enjoy her character. I'm working on the psychological reasons why I didn't like her, but I just know I didn't.
She was nice, and she cared deeply for the ka-tet, but something just rubbed me the wrong way, so with that I could never ever vote for her.

[Wuducynn]

I think Suze was only thrown in there to be a mother-like figure. I didn't enjoy her character. I'm working on the psychological reasons why I didn't like her, but I just know I didn't.
She was nice, and she cared deeply for the ka-tet, but something just rubbed me the wrong way, so with that I could never ever vote for her.

Don't feel you have to understand why you dislike a character. It's your opinion and that's all that matters. On the other hand, especially considering how much time was spent as an intregal part of the ka-tet and the story, I do have to disagree that she was "thrown" in there to just be a mother figure.

[Jean]

Easy vote. Susannah all the way.

that makes, literally, two of us (exactly two Susannah votes so far)

I wonder why nobody has voted for Oy. If not for Susannah, I would chose him (after Roland this time, though: the descending order for me is Susannah - Roland - Oy). He was a real samurai.

[She-Oy]

Well I had a hard time with that. I wanted to vote for Oy, but end the end I voted for Jake, because I don't think Oy would have been there without him. Oy was there for him, just like Jake was there for Roland.

Oy was definitely my "favorite" of the ka-tet, I just think Jake may have been stronger.

Or maybe Jake and Oy are almost considered one in my book. Hmm, more to think about.

[Mordred Deschain]

I voted for Jake, pretty much the same reasoning as D above. However I do disagree with the mother figure part with Susannah. She was a strong Mo'fo! However, I also disagree with her being stronger than Roland as Jean said (the spoiler anyhow). I don't think Roland could have changed his destiny even if he wanted. He was bound from the moment he looked into the grapefruit.

Spoiler:

And it was his Destiny, not Susannah's, to reach the tower and enter it.

[Jean]

<...>
1. However I do disagree with the mother figure part with Susannah.

2. She was a strong Mo'fo! However, I also disagree with her being stronger than Roland as Jean said (the spoiler anyhow). I don't think Roland could have changed his destiny even if he wanted. He was bound from the moment he looked into the grapefruit.

Spoiler:

And it was his Destiny, not Susannah's, to reach the tower and enter it.

1. So do I.

2. It's exactly this belief in ka (not synonymous with destiny) that make Roland weaker than she. He even believed what such an evil, lying thing as the grapefruit showed him. He consciously wanted to be blind; getting rid of the blindfold and regaining his freedom is the main message I personally get from the saga (though everyone gets their own).

[Mordred Deschain]

I agree. I just think once he did look into it, that was pretty much it. I think the Glam is to powerful for Roland to make a different choice.

I do want to say, that the question is unfair in to certain degree. I think they were all strongest. They each had their weaknesses which made them all weak at points. And Callahan shoud be included, he did become part of the Ka-tet. And once he regained his faith, he became pretty strong. And they all stood true.

[She-Oy]

WOw, yeah. How poor Callahan is easily forgotten, but he was the first to give his life for the effort. Although, it sort of seems to me, he had been waiting for that very moment, and he wanted out and didn't fear the end as much as some of the others.

Perhaps that was because of his faith. DOn't know.

[Daghain]

You know, Mordred, I think you have a point there. I think the essential nature of the ka-tet is to be complimentary to one another, so that where one is weak, another is strong. Alone they are strong, but together they are stronger. After all, ka-tet is "one of many", no?

[Matt]

I'm fully on board with that idea, its very cool.

Like the Katet was drawn specifically to fill the gaps in the other members. Probably how all true katets are.

[Chassit]

I agree with Daghain, Jake and for the same reasons


XIX

[Jean]

I'm fully on board with that idea, its very cool.

Like the Katet was drawn specifically to fill the gaps in the other members. Probably how all true katets are.

it's certainly so. They still can be discussed separately, though, I think.

[Wuducynn]

You know, Mordred, I think you have a point there. I think the essential nature of the ka-tet is to be complimentary to one another, so that where one is weak, another is strong. Alone they are strong, but together they are stronger. After all, ka-tet is "one of many", no?

That's right. I think ka is a part of it, but ka is not all of it. Ka can be changed and is not all powerful. It's part ka and part free will.

[Chassit]

I have been thinking...perhaps I should have voted for Oy. I mean, he did continue on at the end after everything (and I believe he was fully conscious of his upcoming death) just to complete Jake's last request.

Food for thought imo...


XIX

[Mordred Deschain]

Wow! I actually had a good point!

I agree with what you said about Oy, Chassit, but that's why I don't think any one member was stronger. I think even if you include Roland, there were things the others were stronger in then him. They each needed eachother to truly be a ka tet. And remember, if I'm remembering this correctly, but weren't the others a Ka-tet before Roland?

[Daghain]

Mordred, why are you surprised? You have some really good insight.

I don't know if the others were ka-tet before Roland. If he drew them all (with the exception of Oy, but you might say he drew Oy because he drew Jake) then they would not have been ka-tet until he drew them to him, I guess in essence to replace his former ka-tet of Cuthbert and Alain (and possibly Jamie, but we hear so little about him).

But yeah, I do believe that the entire purpose of a ka-tet, one of many, is to make a group of people with complimentary skills a cohesive unit. Where one is weak, another is strong. So, for example, if Roland has almost no sense of humor, he is balanced by Eddie, who has enough for three or four people. Or, where no one seems to have "the touch" (other than Roland's uncanny ability to work on instinct) Jake fills that void. Or where no one can really track anyone (Roland is about the best at this) Oy can follow a scent anywhere.

So, each member's skills make a whole. Alone, they might have made it, but together they are formidable.

[Wuducynn]

Mordred, why are you surprised? You have some really good insight.

Yeah MD quit beating yourself up! That's my role! You DO have good insight and ideas...keep them coming <--I know I always do

[Jean]

1. I agree with what you said about Oy, Chassit, but that's why I don't think any one member was stronger. I think even if you include Roland, there were things the others were stronger in then him.
2. They each needed eachother to truly be a ka tet. And remember, if I'm remembering this correctly, but weren't the others a Ka-tet before Roland?

1. Absolutely. That's why the title question of this thread is so great. It makes us think what are the grounds on which we call a person strong or weak. For me it's his ability to make free decisions, that's why I said Susannah. If it was persistence and ability to reach one's goal, I would say Roland, etc.

2. Right, but everyone is here inclined to answer another question, namely, who is the most important for the ka-tet; this question may be incorrect by definition of a ka-tet.