Saved: the next loop is the last before final salvation
Saved: after a number of loops
Saved (neither of the above: give your own version)
Damned: the next loop is the last before final damnation
Damned: stuck in the eternal loop forever
Damned (neither of the above: give your own version)
I do think the horn is the key to Roland's salvation. He "forgets" the horn during the crucial battle and that is what he needs. When Roland is made to do it all again, this time he has the horn in his possession which is the key he needed. However, he may have done this journey before, and each time he gets closer.
The Tower is completely aware that Roland is incapable of not saving it. I mean, the Tower is supposed to be God, so it probably wouldn't send Roland back unless it was pretty darn sure he'd make it again.
I don't agree there, I think the Tower is saving Roland.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Ironically I think you're both right. I think the Tower/Gan/Whoever is aware that Roland is destined to save it. I.e. it's ka he will do so. So sending him back isn't really a danger for something that exists in all times and is aware of the outcome of events.
But I think Matt's right too, through Roland's progression via each cycle, he is saved as well, bit by bit. (Assuming that's what you meant?)
I am a Llamafox...Originally Posted by razz
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The Tower is not a human being... so why would it be afraid of anything?
Anyway I don't think that the Tower was ever in real danger.
The world is not moving on because of the Tower - the Tower is falling because of the moving world.
Ehhh... I will try to express it a little bit more later.
Roland would have understood.
ah. so you are.I am a Llamafox...
and still, you think in a linear viewpoint. despite everything i say. when j00 add time and space into an equation, everything changes. because the tower is already saved. it is already damned. Schroedinger's cat tells us that. and j00 give human traits to things that are not human. when it does not resemble anything human, j00 assume it does not act or think in any way relative to human activity.
Is joo a technical word or are you accenting in a funny way?
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I see it as Roland is continually pushing toward the tower, and with that is correcting the mistakes that he makes as he goes. It seems as if he will be doomed to repeat this for nearly eternity, yet like the tower, there will be a top. He will reach it, but think how long it would take you to go back and fix minute mistakes from your own life. That 3 seconds it took to pick up the horn at Jericho hill, is but just a blink of an eye. How many more minor and major mistakes must he fix to finish the journey?
Another part of me wonders if he was supposed to somehow prevent his first ka-tet from being destroyed? I have been constantly thinking about the tower from the chronological order it went in, thus ending at the tower. However, what if the mistakes are fixing themselves backwards (I'm kind of thinking/rambling out loud here). Time may run one way, but does ka? I just keep taking myself back to Jericho hill and Mejis. What if Roland is supposed to save his mother, his original ka-tet, not battle Cort so young? Maybe these things are what the tower is trying to have him fix to ensure that it will forever be protected?
Another thought, are Susan, Eddie, and Oy all doomed to the repeat process as well, or does he draw new people, or different versions of those again of them from another world?
Tet, long days and pleasant nights.
I do hope he doesn't need to fix all his mistakes.
Anyway if he realises in time that there are more important things than the Tower he will be able to fix most of them.
Roland would have understood.
I voted Saved, next loop before Salvation, because I think the horn is significant. The blast of a horn heralds change and I suspect that is its symbolic role in the next cycle.
I think small changes early on snowball, and one mistake corrected (the major one being not dropping Jake when he has the choice) would ripple up the story in a massive way. I can see Rowland with a whole right hand arriving with his Ka-Tet more or less intact at the Tower. Although all of them seem to defer to Rowland in matters of decision, they are also responsible for humanizing him as well, and reminding him of the impact of his choices.
I totally agree with almost all of that, great post Rider.
And welcome to the site.
The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket
Thankye sai Matt, much appreciated!
My view is that the loop (the DT story from start to finish) is in it's own little bubble somewhere, out of the normal course of time. The repetitions affect no-one but Roland, because he alone - when he reaches the top of the Tower - is taken out of the loop for a moment, so that he may realise his fate, before being inserted back into it.
Therefore, everyone and everything inside the loop remains the same each time. But Roland is the catalyst and only he has the power (through his actions and thought) to change the circumstances and affect the outcomes.
I love this theory so much.My view is that the loop (the DT story from start to finish) is in it's own little bubble somewhere, out of the normal course of time. The repetitions affect no-one but Roland, because he alone - when he reaches the top of the Tower - is taken out of the loop for a moment, so that he may realise his fate, before being inserted back into it.
Therefore, everyone and everything inside the loop remains the same each time. But Roland is the catalyst and only he has the power (through his actions and thought) to change the circumstances and affect the outcomes.
And do you think that there are other humans or any other creatures who have the same destiny? Can it happen to anybody else, too?
Roland would have understood.
Yes, I think so - for example, it happens alot in Greek mythology. And the idea that "hell is repetition" is quite common in fiction.
God's I hope not - how would any of us fare having to fix all our mistakes. No, fate puts him back in the desert to fix his major mistakes from that point on, I hope.
I still believe there's eventual redemption for Roland, but probably more than one loop in the future.
Some great posting in here!
Maybe he doesn't need to fix them? Maybe the realization is his redemption. Maybe, this is the answer to why he has the horn?Tet, long days and pleasant nights.
I do hope he doesn't need to fix all his mistakes.
Anyway if he realises in time that there are more important things than the Tower he will be able to fix most of them.
Yes, the frustrating thing about the loop that Rowland is in particularly is that he never returns early enough to do anything different about Susan Delgado. Maybe Ka wouldn't be served in this, but I would darn well like to think I could have a go. Maybe Rowland was so young and headstrong at that time that his choices weren't really choices at all ... he had only one path and only later did he mature enough to be able to make real choices.
Or maybe it's an evidence that Susan's death wasn't his fault.
Roland would have understood.
I had never thought about it in that way!!!! Thank you!
Part of me always curses Rowland for being such a hormone filled muppet in those early days, even though I know if I was in his place I would have acted in exactly the same way, no question!
Nor had I. It has just come to my mind.
Roland would have understood.
R_o_D , no big deal, but is your universal spelling of Rowland a deliberate ploy, or just a recurring typo?
I find it strange seeing Roland's name like that.
The same question has been on my mind for long, Brian.
Roland would have understood.
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