View Poll Results: Should the Coda have been part of TDT VII?

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    64 91.43%
  • No

    5 7.14%
  • Don't care/Other/Undecided

    1 1.43%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 105

Thread: Coda or no Coda?

  1. #1
    Traveler Bobby Garfield is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4

    Default Coda or no Coda?

    Just finished the book. Just made this account as well.

    The end of this book (the REAL end) was perfect, because it focused on Roland's redemption and the realization that all the people who died for him hadn't died in vain. I truly shed a few tears as I read him calling out all the names. The fact that all of these deaths were final was what made Roland's journey truly special.

    Then there was the Coda, which basically contradicted all of the deaths in the series. It was like SK said "Just kidding!" to all the readers! Not even can I no longer enjoy the ending, I can't even take any of the series seriously!

    The point is, I really regret reading the Coda. I was compelled to read it only because it was technically still part of the book, and I didn't think I could consider the book finished until I had read it from cover to cover. My question is this. Should the Coda be contained in the book, or should it be a separate piece, in any form (for instance, a page on his website)?

  2. #2
    Gunslinger Apprentice Harrald is on a distinguished road Harrald's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    122
    My Mood
    Psychedelic
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    It's more about the journey than the destination.


    IMHO
    Insert witty comment here.

  3. #3
    Silverloch John_and_Yoko will become famous soon enough John_and_Yoko's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,444
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default

    I personally think the coda gives information that has bearing on the entire rest of the story (up to it). Besides, I re-read the first subchapter of The Gunslinger once I finished, and saw it in a whole new light after that.

  4. #4
    Traveler Bobby Garfield is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harrald View Post
    It's more about the journey than the destination
    I probably didn't make it clear in my post (I actually came off rather angry, and I cry pardon) but this is the point I'm trying to make; I feel like the book was better left off as just the journey to the Tower. He could have made the "destination" part separate. As it is, I feel like the compulsive reader who has just finished reading the book is liable to read on regardless of whether or not they actually want to find out what's inside.

    I'll hold off on posting again until I've had time to let the ending actually sink in.

  5. #5
    - razz is a jewel in the rough razz is a jewel in the rough razz is a jewel in the rough razz is a jewel in the rough

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,241

    Default

    not every story has a happy ending. and as irrational as the Coda is, it seems more real, because it's not some happy ending.

  6. #6
    Silverloch John_and_Yoko will become famous soon enough John_and_Yoko's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,444
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Garfield View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Harrald View Post
    It's more about the journey than the destination
    I probably didn't make it clear in my post (I actually came off rather angry, and I cry pardon) but this is the point I'm trying to make; I feel like the book was better left off as just the journey to the Tower. He could have made the "destination" part separate. As it is, I feel like the compulsive reader who has just finished reading the book is liable to read on regardless of whether or not they actually want to find out what's inside.

    I'll hold off on posting again until I've had time to let the ending actually sink in.
    Well, the "first" ending may have been the one he would have wanted to do (it's Robert Browning's ending as well), and the coda may have (partly) been a jab at the readers who'd been reading it for years and would likely have felt cheated if he HAD ended it there. Hence the warning, which didn't necessarily need to be there.

  7. #7
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    8,311
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Garfield View Post

    Then there was the Coda, which basically contradicted all of the deaths in the series.
    How did it contradict all the deaths in the series? All those deaths really did happen.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  8. #8
    Traveler Bobby Garfield is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Garfield View Post

    Then there was the Coda, which basically contradicted all of the deaths in the series.
    How did it contradict all the deaths in the series? All those deaths really did happen.
    The way I read it, all of the deaths were undone and he was literally placed back in time. Or, if he got transported to another world, the deaths lost their finality, since "there are other worlds than these".

  9. #9
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    8,311
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Garfield View Post

    The way I read it, all of the deaths were undone and he was literally placed back in time. Or, if he got transported to another world, the deaths lost their finality, since "there are other worlds than these".
    He was placed back in time, but that doesn't mean those deaths didn't happen. There has always been "other worlds than these" in the series, so most deaths really aren't final.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  10. #10
    Citizen of Gilead stone, rose, unfound door is on a distinguished road stone, rose, unfound door's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    634
    My Mood
    Yeehaw
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    What would be the point of not having the coda? I'd have felt cheated and disappointed if it had ended in a 'they lived happily ever after' when it was obvious that simply couldn't be. Anyone who's read the revised Gunsligner should have known it had to finish the way it did. That's what made it such a great story in my opinion.
    Anyway, you've been warned.

  11. #11
    Kate / Batwoman turtlex is on a distinguished road turtlex's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Along The Path Of The Beam
    Posts
    16,075
    My Mood
    Gay

    Default

    First, welcome to the site. Way to jump right in

    Personally, the Coda was written, that's what Sai King felt, so yup - it belongs.

    I agree completely with what Razz said, about not all stories having happy endings, but I will also submit that since we now know of the repeating, etc... there is still hope for the next ending to be happy. Or at least happy-er.
    The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...

    ...And The Gunslinger Followed.

    Im always on the Batman rule, sir. - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857

    "It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic

    Remember, Remember, The Fifth of November, The Gunpowder, Treason, and Plot.

  12. #12
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Firstly, welcome to the site.

    I agree with what most have said as far as the coda being warranted because it negates the "happy ending" scenario.

    I definitely agree with Matthew (AHTCK) that we should already have expected that no death is necessarily final in King's multiverse. For that matter I don't necessarily think that the Eddie and Jake in the Coda section are necessarily the same Eddie and Jake who accompanied Roland. It is entirely possible that these are different versions of Eddie and Jake. It's been the matter of some debate around here in many other threads which you may find interesting.

    Ditto for the notion that time has been reset. Recently, In another thread, Bev Vincent said that he doesn't believe time was reset or that Roland was sent back in time but that he went to another level of the Tower and thus this is not precisely the same Roland we met in The Gunslinger (forgive me Bev if I incorrectly summarized your thoughts). I tend to agree with this interpretation. I don't see the Tower as a "reset button" though I know that many do interpret it that way and that King is intentionally ambiguous in the ending.

    Either way, you have certainly asked an interesting question in your first posts here and I look forward to discussing more of this stuff with you.

  13. #13
    Silverloch John_and_Yoko will become famous soon enough John_and_Yoko's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,444
    My Mood
    Angelic

    Default

    That makes sense to me--it explains why
    Spoiler:
    he has the Horn of Eld this time and remembers taking it, even though the default time was way after that battle ended, not to mention having the most vague memories of the Tower even while thinking he's never been to it before.

  14. #14
    Traveler iamjacksgoat is on a distinguished road iamjacksgoat's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    16
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I'm glad I read the coda. I felt cheated when I thought it left off at Roland shouting the names of the dead, approaching the Tower. The coda made me feel sad and slightly empty, but then it gave me hope for Roland's future.

    I could do without the Susannah in New York Epilogue though. I got kind of angry at Susannah for leaving as she did, and would have rather had her fate left open to the reader to interpret.

  15. #15
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hungary (till I move to Fatu Hiva with Brice)
    Posts
    10,962
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    Very good question, Bobby. I can understand your feeling but I must say the Coda belongs to the series moreover it's really really important - we can't let ourselves think that it can be left out.
    It makes so many things clear... and we can get really close to Roland. We didn't know much about him before the end of the series. Or that's how I felt when I reached the last lines.
    And it's absolutely possible that Roland didn't go back in time but got to another level of the Tower. His next loop might be really similar to the last one but they will be different.
    You can start to think (if you can accept the Coda what can be really hard some time) how Roland can break the loop.

    Roland would have understood.

  16. #16
    The White Guy Chap is on a distinguished road Chap's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Todash
    Posts
    1,526
    My Mood
    Cynical
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I prefer it with the Coda.
    The first ending, with the door slamming shut - it didn't even say if Roland walked in the door before it shutting or not. I was left wondering if he got inside at all
    So I was happy when I found the coda a few pages later

    and I have to add:
    after I voted, this massage came under the poll:
    Voters: 19. You have already voted on this poll
    Some are born to sweet delight,

    some are born to the endless night.

  17. #17
    Traveler RiseofDespair is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Depends...
    Posts
    4
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I kinda agree with you. I felt pretty mad when I found out that the ka-tet's breaking had been for naught, that he would take the same quest over and over, with the same result, knowing that they would die again and again... it broke my heart, and part of my sanity. But I still think the coda belonged, no matter how much it hurt.

  18. #18
    Gunslinger Apprentice Lady_Macbeth is on a distinguished road Lady_Macbeth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    150
    My Mood
    In Love
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Yes, the coda is a real slap in the face when you first read it, but it really does make sense when you think about it. It goes along with the theme that you shouldn't be so focused on destination, that you miss the ride, so to speak. Also, Ka is a wheel, remember? So wouldn't it make sense that everything just sort of go around in a circle? In all honesty, we'd probably be dissapointed with whatever Stephen King stuck up there, because the journey to get there was just so epic, and built up your suspense so much, that I really can't think of anything he could have ended the book with that wouldn't be anti-climactic in a way. I say the ending is just as good as any, and you have to admit, it's sort of humorous in a way.

  19. #19
    Gunslinger Apprentice Bumbler19 is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Well with the whole, all these deaths weren't final thing, my "death is final" feeling for this series ended when Jake came through the Demon Door. The important thing to remember is that these deaths are final... for those versions of those people.

    The second Jake Chambers was different than the first, in some small way. Shown by the conflict of the (did i die? but i'm still alive) memories.

    The second Jake didn't die the same way the first Jake did, i believe that because he was strong in the touch he was able to pull some of those feelings from Roland and probably from the beam imo.
    But the second jade never fell, you could call his coming to midworld through the demon door a death-rebirth thing. That is what I understand as Jake2's first real death.

    I think King tried to reiterate this in the Susannah in New York chapter. He changed Jake and Eddie much more drastically they became "twins" more than making you believe they were the same character. They had a different last name... they were brothers... which that is a twin quality built in the ka-tet.

    I don't regret reading the coda, mostly because I really did consider stopping when King introduced the Coda and chose to read on. I knew I might not like it, King basically said if I continue, I might not like it.

    It also adds a new view on when the series talked about how long and how far Roland has traveled. Before the Coda we were led to believe (or at least this is what i thought) that the reason it was so long was merely time/space stretching due to the world "moving on". But now because of the coda it is both the world moving on AND how far Roland has really traveled due o repeating it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Macbeth View Post
    In all honesty, we'd probably be dissapointed with whatever Stephen King stuck up there, because the journey to get there was just so epic, and built up your suspense so much, that I really can't think of anything he could have ended the book with that wouldn't be anti-climactic in a way. I say the ending is just as good as any, and you have to admit, it's sort of humorous in a way.
    agreed i was thinking just before i actually finished reading it that I wasn't sure if i wanted to... I didn't want to say goodbye to Roland and his ka-tet, typing this all of a sudden sounds really selfish. But it really was the journey for me. Even though there are no more direct pages to turn, i know in some-where or some-when even if only in my imagination, the journey still continues.

    Now for my tower fix, i must get a hold of The Little Sisters of Eluria, and more DT comics. Also looks like i'm diving into salem's lot and hearts in atlantis next for my page turners.

  20. #20
    Gunslinger Apprentice Bumbler19 is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RiseofDespair View Post
    I kinda agree with you. I felt pretty mad when I found out that the ka-tet's breaking had been for naught, that he would take the same quest over and over, with the same result, knowing that they would die again and again... it broke my heart, and part of my sanity. But I still think the coda belonged, no matter how much it hurt.
    But the horn is there now, if only a promise to Roland that things MAY be different things could still change, if not this time around, eventually.

  21. #21
    Gunslinger Apprentice Kes is on a distinguished road Kes's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Pasadena, California
    Posts
    66
    Country
    Country Flag
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    I tend to agree with the "I could have skipped the epilogue" poster. I think I might have rather left Susannah's fate to my own imagination. Though I think her choice, "the man or the gun" is a mirror of the choice that Roland will have to make before the end of the path holds the clearing for him, and not the Tower.

    As for the Coda...I considered stopping and never knowing, letting what Roland found be his alone. But I couldn't do it. And reading the ending was one of the most horrifying, harsh, painful, despairing and wondrous experiences I've had in fiction.

    It was painful, and saddening and absolutely the ONLY possible ending that would have made any sense. Ka IS a wheel. Say thankya.
    The wrath of the witch-burners is in direct proportion to the comeliness of the witch.
    Clark Ashton Smith


  22. #22
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    8,311
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kes View Post
    I tend to agree with the "I could have skipped the epilogue" poster. I think I might have rather left Susannah's fate to my own imagination. Though I think her choice, "the man or the gun" is a mirror of the choice that Roland will have to make before the end of the path holds the clearing for him, and not the Tower.

    As for the Coda...I considered stopping and never knowing, letting what Roland found be his alone. But I couldn't do it. And reading the ending was one of the most horrifying, harsh, painful, despairing and wondrous experiences I've had in fiction.

    It was painful, and saddening and absolutely the ONLY possible ending that would have made any sense. Ka IS a wheel. Say thankya.
    Can you believe I actually met someone who never went past where Roland enters the Tower. To this day he doesn't know and doesn't want to know.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  23. #23
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    15,452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuducynn View Post
    Can you believe I actually met someone who never went past where Roland enters the Tower. To this day he doesn't know and doesn't want to know.
    Does he leave movies before they're over too?

  24. #24
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    8,311
    Gender
    Gender

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuducynn View Post
    Can you believe I actually met someone who never went past where Roland enters the Tower. To this day he doesn't know and doesn't want to know.
    Does he leave movies before they're over too?
    Ha! Great question. If I chat with him over SK.Com I'll let you know his answer.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  25. #25
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hungary (till I move to Fatu Hiva with Brice)
    Posts
    10,962
    Country
    Country Flag

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wuducynn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kes View Post
    I tend to agree with the "I could have skipped the epilogue" poster. I think I might have rather left Susannah's fate to my own imagination. Though I think her choice, "the man or the gun" is a mirror of the choice that Roland will have to make before the end of the path holds the clearing for him, and not the Tower.

    As for the Coda...I considered stopping and never knowing, letting what Roland found be his alone. But I couldn't do it. And reading the ending was one of the most horrifying, harsh, painful, despairing and wondrous experiences I've had in fiction.

    It was painful, and saddening and absolutely the ONLY possible ending that would have made any sense. Ka IS a wheel. Say thankya.
    Can you believe I actually met someone who never went past where Roland enters the Tower. To this day he doesn't know and doesn't want to know.
    I cannot believe it. My mind refuses to do so.

    Roland would have understood.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts