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Thread: Cemetery Dance discussion thread

  1. #21176
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by herbertwest View Post
    Hello Brian,

    Out of curiosity, what book is it about?
    The Southern Reach Trilogy.


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    I am not knowledgeable on Vandermeer's work. Are 'Area X' and 'The Southern Reach Trilogy' one and the same?
    Yea I believe so.


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    I was just reading some of the details regarding Dark Debts by Karen Hall.

    From the original announcement on August 4, 2016: "Stephen King has written a terrific original introduction about why he loves this book so much!"

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/extras...by-karen-hall/

    From the original product page: "Stephen King has written a terrific original introduction about his first selection for the line."

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/dark-d...ld-seal-1.html

    Five years later, from the Production Updates page: "We are still waiting on the introduction from Stephen King."

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/production-updates.html

  3. #21178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Two-Cent View Post
    I was just reading some of the details regarding Dark Debts by Karen Hall.

    From the original announcement on August 4, 2016: "Stephen King has written a terrific original introduction about why he loves this book so much!"

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/extras...by-karen-hall/

    From the original product page: "Stephen King has written a terrific original introduction about his first selection for the line."

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/dark-d...ld-seal-1.html

    Five years later, from the Production Updates page: "We are still waiting on the introduction from Stephen King."

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/production-updates.html
    My understanding was that it had been written before the book was announced, but that was incorrect, and I leave chasing Steve to Rich. That is 100% his job. I will email just about anyone to get a project finished, but my hands get all clammy and I feel like a total imposter when I have to write an email to Stephen King. Other people can claim to be Joe Cool about it, and they probably are, but not me. He's the last of my childhood heroes...

    I had BIG ideas for this line when it launched, so being stalled at this book bums me out greatly. But thank you (genuinely) for the reminder to nudge Rich again, I will go do that now.

    Best,
    Brian
    Founder and publisher of Lividian Publications. My other website is BrianJamesFreeman.com. Please always feel free to email me or send me a PM if you have any questions about either!

  4. #21179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Two-Cent View Post
    I was just reading some of the details regarding Dark Debts by Karen Hall.

    From the original announcement on August 4, 2016: "Stephen King has written a terrific original introduction about why he loves this book so much!"

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/extras...by-karen-hall/

    From the original product page: "Stephen King has written a terrific original introduction about his first selection for the line."

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/dark-d...ld-seal-1.html

    Five years later, from the Production Updates page: "We are still waiting on the introduction from Stephen King."

    https://www.cemeterydance.com/production-updates.html
    My understanding was that it had been written before the book was announced, but that was incorrect, and I leave chasing Steve to Rich. That is 100% his job. I will email just about anyone to get a project finished, but my hands get all clammy and I feel like a total imposter when I have to write an email to Stephen King. Other people can claim to be Joe Cool about it, and they probably are, but not me. He's the last of my childhood heroes...

    I had BIG ideas for this line when it launched, so being stalled at this book bums me out greatly. But thank you (genuinely) for the reminder to nudge Rich again, I will go do that now.

    Best,
    Brian
    I AM not worried about this series. I am glad it stalled. I collect Stephen King books, intro's to other books by him, etc... This saved me some headache.

    PS. Great JOb in responding to negative press lately. That would be the least favorite part of the job, if I had to do it for you.

    If anyone above cancels their orders, I would love a lettered copy of THE STAND and the Shining! any pc copies laying around. The Double day years are awesome books. Looking forward to the VIKING years next! and then....

  5. #21180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
    My understanding was that it had been written before the book was announced, but that was incorrect, and I leave chasing Steve to Rich. That is 100% his job. I will email just about anyone to get a project finished, but my hands get all clammy and I feel like a total imposter when I have to write an email to Stephen King. Other people can claim to be Joe Cool about it, and they probably are, but not me. He's the last of my childhood heroes...

    I had BIG ideas for this line when it launched, so being stalled at this book bums me out greatly. But thank you (genuinely) for the reminder to nudge Rich again, I will go do that now.

    Best,
    Brian
    As always, your reply is professional and polite, Brian. We have an idea of what you are dealing with there and you always go above and beyond to resolve matters. Thank you for all that you do!

  6. #21181
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    Rich really needs to hand the reins over to someone else so he can focus on his own work. Honestly doesn’t seem like his heart is in it any more. I mean 5+ years to get an introduction from Stephen King?

  7. #21182
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    I think the only way to help CD is to force honest accountability.

    Maybe it's just me but it seems CD always responds with misdirection in answer to direct questions.
    "let me look into that", "I'll check with somebody on this", "I'm not sure but I think", "can't check now somebody's not at the office" "I'm not the one that makes those decisions",
    My absolute favorite is "you can have your money back" really? after waiting a decade?
    gee thanks CD, how wonderful of you.

    All the smoke & mirrors bullshit is tiring.

    If everybody would start calling CD out.. really calling them out, they might change their ways.
    I wish everybody would answer this question internally to themselves.
    Would your own company or the company you work for still be in business if it was ran like CD?

    The top company policy worldwide is on time delivery.

    I personally will never buy directly from CD ever again.
    It's not worth the headache and by the time it's actually released who cares anymore.


    “The battle between good and evil is endlessly fascinating because we are participants every day.” - Stephen King

  8. #21183
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    Maybe I'm in the minority here but I'm not really up in arms over CD delays. I guess I feel like I was aware of their history of delays prior to me ordering anything. Also if I wanna weigh the pros and cons, CD had come through with me many more times than they have disappointed me. For every delayed book I have on order right now (5) I feel like CD has went out of their way to accommodate my requests on multiple occasions.

    I think we all have a different perspective on time and patience.

  9. #21184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aronstg View Post
    Maybe I'm in the minority here but I'm not really up in arms over CD delays. I guess I feel like I was aware of their history of delays prior to me ordering anything. Also if I wanna weigh the pros and cons, CD had come through with me many more times than they have disappointed me. For every delayed book I have on order right now (5) I feel like CD has went out of their way to accommodate my requests on multiple occasions.

    I think we all have a different perspective on time and patience.
    Very true. This kerfuffle has kicked up a lot of good conversation. I told someone who was concerned that I’m waiting on my CD preorders with good faith that I’ll someday get them. But not everyone has the same tolerance for delays.

    And what’s got many so upset this time round is Richard’s energy and focus promoting his work—Gwendy and Boogeyman—while all else seems to be at a standstill. If it weren’t for all those emails and promotions for a book CD isn’t even publishing then people might not have been so stirred up.


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    I don't own many CD titles and can't be bothered to do the extensive research it would take to confirm, but I wonder (my brain has generated this impression but I don't know if it makes sense) if the long-delayed books discussed here all date to the same time period, or at least the time before CD started straightening out some of their processes (which I'm pretty sure I heard did happen). Of course, if the time period in question is "pre-2021," then that's a true problem.

    I really hope CD is able to permanently clear the logjams; I love their work, and I think they compare quite favorably to a few publishers out there who I won't mention (because they don't deserve to be dragged simply because their tastes don't align as closely with mine).
    Hear me shout, "Come on in!
    - What's the news? Where you been?"

    'Cause there's no wind left in my soul
    - and I've grown old.

  11. #21186
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    ...what’s got many so upset this time round is Richard’s energy and focus promoting his work—Gwendy and Boogeyman—while all else seems to be at a standstill...
    That's the thing: I'll happily buy "pipeline" excuses all day every day, but when certain things positively whooooosh down the pipe and others are lodged for 5 years or more, we have to wonder just what is going on with the pipe and what the plumber has been doing (this likely is where people begin to wonder how good-faith businesspeople generate such results).
    Hear me shout, "Come on in!
    - What's the news? Where you been?"

    'Cause there's no wind left in my soul
    - and I've grown old.

  12. #21187
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    But, why justify bad business behavior?
    Three response statements posted here sort of highlight my discomfort with the new CD norm

    “I was aware or their history”
    “I’ll someday get them”
    “Upset this time round”

    Why is this the acceptable norm with CD?
    Over promise, under deliver?
    I somehow missed this course in my studies.

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aronstg View Post
    Maybe I'm in the minority here but I'm not really up in arms over CD delays. I guess I feel like I was aware of their history of delays prior to me ordering anything. Also if I wanna weigh the pros and cons, CD had come through with me many more times than they have disappointed me. For every delayed book I have on order right now (5) I feel like CD has went out of their way to accommodate my requests on multiple occasions.

    I think we all have a different perspective on time and patience.
    Very true. This kerfuffle has kicked up a lot of good conversation. I told someone who was concerned that I’m waiting on my CD preorders with good faith that I’ll someday get them. But not everyone has the same tolerance for delays.

    And what’s got many so upset this time round is Richard’s energy and focus promoting his work—Gwendy and Boogeyman—while all else seems to be at a standstill. If it weren’t for all those emails and promotions for a book CD isn’t even publishing then people might not have been so stirred up.


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    “The battle between good and evil is endlessly fascinating because we are participants every day.” - Stephen King

  13. #21188
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    Quote Originally Posted by webstar1000 View Post
    I love CD but am starting to consider pulling my money… I have A LOT with them. And the stuff I’m reading and seeing is very concerning to me. I do not understand why they just don’t fill the backlogs. When your authors are getting mad at you like that? It’s a real problem.
    They don't fill the backlogs because they can't afford to fill the backlogs because they are using the money from new pre-orders to pay for production of older books that are already sold.

  14. #21189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfan24 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfan24 View Post
    well it was bound to happen at some point. Especially after the email today.
    The Collectors Club email?


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    Yup. Pushing more books when others languish.
    The kicker in that email, for me, was the promise of a signed Richard Chizmar book available only thru the collector's club.
    Messin' with Sasquatch

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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by webstar1000 View Post
    I love CD but am starting to consider pulling my money… I have A LOT with them. And the stuff I’m reading and seeing is very concerning to me. I do not understand why they just don’t fill the backlogs. When your authors are getting mad at you like that? It’s a real problem.
    They don't fill the backlogs because they can't afford to fill the backlogs because they are using the money from new pre-orders to pay for production of older books that are already sold.
    I’ve been waiting over 15 years for Best of CD 2. This should be one hell of a book if it took that many preorders to pay for it!!
    WANTED:
    Any DT S/L’s #181

  16. #21191
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuz View Post
    They don't fill the backlogs because they can't afford to fill the backlogs because they are using the money from new pre-orders to pay for production of older books that are already sold.
    I suppose it's impossible (for us outside the company) to truly know this, but A) it fits the evidence, and B) it would be mighty troubling.
    Hear me shout, "Come on in!
    - What's the news? Where you been?"

    'Cause there's no wind left in my soul
    - and I've grown old.

  17. #21192
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    I'm curious to know how other authors see the Cemetery Dance business model.
    Curious to read their perspective on the matter.

    I mean Wow, Jeff Vandermeer's statements shared by jeffingoff pretty much sum it up.



    Quote Originally Posted by jeffingoff View Post
    There’s a fire burning on Facebook tonight. Jeff Vandermeer spilled some serious tea. Flammable tea. I think Richard needs to address this one.





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  18. #21193
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    Hey Brian, are we getting close to a public announcement for sale of the Doubleday Years release of The Stand?

    Thanks.

  19. #21194
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotuz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by webstar1000 View Post
    I love CD but am starting to consider pulling my money… I have A LOT with them. And the stuff I’m reading and seeing is very concerning to me. I do not understand why they just don’t fill the backlogs. When your authors are getting mad at you like that? It’s a real problem.
    They don't fill the backlogs because they can't afford to fill the backlogs because they are using the money from new pre-orders to pay for production of older books that are already sold.
    There’s absolutely no doubt in my mind this is what is going on at CD.

  20. #21195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cook View Post
    But, why justify bad business behavior?
    Three response statements posted here sort of highlight my discomfort with the new CD norm

    “I was aware or their history”
    “I’ll someday get them”
    “Upset this time round”

    Why is this the acceptable norm with CD?
    Over promise, under deliver?
    I've accepted that delays were implicit in CD's "pay now, receive later" model; I don't know if that is "bad" business (acting in bad faith) or just "poor" business (failing to execute an honest, if not fast, plan). [The answer likely is more obvious to those of you who regularly buy from specialty presses (I rarely do).]

    But some delays have greatly exceeded what even the most patient and passive among us might have built into their expectations, raising the question: is this incompetence, bad faith, or incredibly bad luck?

    I really hope CD is heeding the wakeup call of Jeff VanderMeer's comments - when this many customers (and at least one author) are this upset, there must be change.
    Hear me shout, "Come on in!
    - What's the news? Where you been?"

    'Cause there's no wind left in my soul
    - and I've grown old.

  21. #21196
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    Lucky for CD that King still likes them (as far as we know).

    I know King has some kind of relationship with Chizmar, but I don't know if that protects CD against losing King's business, or if their relationship would suffer because of the business.
    Hear me shout, "Come on in!
    - What's the news? Where you been?"

    'Cause there's no wind left in my soul
    - and I've grown old.

  22. #21197

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigobau View Post
    Hey Brian, are we getting close to a public announcement for sale of the Doubleday Years release of The Stand?

    Thanks.
    Not yet. The plan is to have the book rolling at the printer before that public announcement because the printer is taking a lot longer on these big projects, and the case maker is now scheduling 14 to 16 weeks out. I know lots of people have already reserved their copy, so this "wait to announce" plan doesn't cut down on any of the actual wait for them, but as we've mentioned before, the overall goal is to get projects a lot closer to the printer or at the printer before announcing them. (The Doubleday Years books, and the bundle preorder offers, were offered before this "policy" change was made.)

    To give everyone an idea of the current time frames with the printers, we delivered the files for STRANGE WEATHER in March and the books were completed in August. We delivered the files for the THE SOUTHERN REACH TRILOGY is May and the estimated finished date is currently October 6. That'll probably slide about two weeks based on past experience. And because our new printer isn't comfortable with making dummy books by hand, the slipcases cannot be started until we have finished books. We could use the estimated bulk sizing and hope for the best, but the results are often... mixed. If there's one thing we're proud of, it's that people are usually VERY happy with the finished product they receive, even if it's embarrassingly late.

    And since I know some of you would like independent verification of this industry-wide printer issue, here is another publisher who is reporting similar issues with his printer:

    https://grimoakpress.com/blogs/news/...binding-delays

    Brian
    Founder and publisher of Lividian Publications. My other website is BrianJamesFreeman.com. Please always feel free to email me or send me a PM if you have any questions about either!

  23. #21198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by craigobau View Post
    Hey Brian, are we getting close to a public announcement for sale of the Doubleday Years release of The Stand?

    Thanks.
    Not yet. The plan is to have the book rolling at the printer before that public announcement because the printer is taking a lot longer on these big projects, and the case maker is now scheduling 14 to 16 weeks out. I know lots of people have already reserved their copy, so this "wait to announce" plan doesn't cut down on any of the actual wait for them, but as we've mentioned before, the overall goal is to get projects a lot closer to the printer or at the printer before announcing them. (The Doubleday Years books, and the bundle preorder offers, were offered before this "policy" change was made.)

    To give everyone an idea of the current time frames with the printers, we delivered the files for STRANGE WEATHER in March and the books were completed in August. We delivered the files for the THE SOUTHERN REACH TRILOGY is May and the estimated finished date is currently October 6. That'll probably slide about two weeks based on past experience. And because our new printer isn't comfortable with making dummy books by hand, the slipcases cannot be started until we have finished books. We could use the estimated bulk sizing and hope for the best, but the results are often... mixed. If there's one thing we're proud of, it's that people are usually VERY happy with the finished product they receive, even if it's embarrassingly late.

    And since I know some of you would like independent verification of this industry-wide printer issue, here is another publisher who is reporting similar issues with his printer:

    https://grimoakpress.com/blogs/news/...binding-delays

    Brian
    I always appreciate your responses here Brian.

    One thing that doesn’t work for me here is that you mention when you sent the files to the printer vs. when they are physically printed. Strange weather was offered for sale 4 years ago. Why are files just now getting to the printer? There HAS to be a better way to offer these books for sale instead of taking interest free loans from everyone.

  24. #21199

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfan24 View Post
    One thing that doesn’t work for me here is that you mention when you sent the files to the printer vs. when they are physically printed. Strange weather was offered for sale 4 years ago. Why are files just now getting to the printer? There HAS to be a better way to offer these books for sale instead of taking interest free loans from everyone.
    If we were handling the announcements the same way then as we are now, the book wouldn't have been announced until March or so of this year. That would have been pretty nice, eh?

    The delay on STRANGE WEATHER was a signature sheet problem (artist had the sheets but no time to sign), and by the time it was resolved, we were deep in the SLEEPING BEAUTIES printer mess, which also took a long time to resolve.

    If current policies had been in place, it wouldn't have been a big deal. But they weren't, and the goal right now is to finish the project well.

    (On the plus side, if you want to look for a plus side, we took advantage of the delay and commissioned unannounced interior artwork for all four volumes of STRANGE WEATHER as a little bonus for the collectors to say "thank you" for waiting so long.)

    Brian
    Founder and publisher of Lividian Publications. My other website is BrianJamesFreeman.com. Please always feel free to email me or send me a PM if you have any questions about either!

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    Gunslinger Apprentice craigobau has a spectacular aura about craigobau has a spectacular aura about craigobau's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian James Freeman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by craigobau View Post
    Hey Brian, are we getting close to a public announcement for sale of the Doubleday Years release of The Stand?

    Thanks.
    Not yet. The plan is to have the book rolling at the printer before that public announcement because the printer is taking a lot longer on these big projects, and the case maker is now scheduling 14 to 16 weeks out. I know lots of people have already reserved their copy, so this "wait to announce" plan doesn't cut down on any of the actual wait for them, but as we've mentioned before, the overall goal is to get projects a lot closer to the printer or at the printer before announcing them. (The Doubleday Years books, and the bundle preorder offers, were offered before this "policy" change was made.)

    To give everyone an idea of the current time frames with the printers, we delivered the files for STRANGE WEATHER in March and the books were completed in August. We delivered the files for the THE SOUTHERN REACH TRILOGY is May and the estimated finished date is currently October 6. That'll probably slide about two weeks based on past experience. And because our new printer isn't comfortable with making dummy books by hand, the slipcases cannot be started until we have finished books. We could use the estimated bulk sizing and hope for the best, but the results are often... mixed. If there's one thing we're proud of, it's that people are usually VERY happy with the finished product they receive, even if it's embarrassingly late.

    And since I know some of you would like independent verification of this industry-wide printer issue, here is another publisher who is reporting similar issues with his printer:

    https://grimoakpress.com/blogs/news/...binding-delays

    Brian

    Thanks Brian! Much appreciated.

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