Cemetery Dance discussion thread

[Splync]

I know I'm pretty new here and I'm not sure I really deserve a say, but I do have eight items currently on order with CD, two of them dating back to 2017, so I hope no one minds if I chime in.

Yes, the waiting sucks, but from what I understand about the situation, I don't know what else anyone there could have done to avoid the problem. I'm not an insider, and I freely admit there might be factors I'm not privy to or simply don't understand, but it's not like they're printing the books themselves or personally signing signature pages. There seem to be a lot of gears in the machine, and when one (or more) of those gears gets stripped, it's going to take time to get things moving again, right? And that's not even factoring in a global pandemic!

In the plumber analogy, you have to remember that someone stole the plumber's wrench, and the company he orders wrenches from went bankrupt, and his backup supplier only offers wrenches too small to do the job, and they're out of stock right now anyway. He could come over, but without his tools, all he can do is hang out and have a beer.

I've always gotten great customer service from Cemetery Dance, and I think the products are worth the wait, no matter how frustrating the lag might be. Plus, I feel like the sales and memberships they frequently offer more than make up for the downsides of ordering from them. I'm going to end up getting many of my books for probably half what they should have cost me. I'm honestly amazed CD is able to do it at all, especially given the general decline of bookstores and publishers. Maybe I should be annoyed, but I just feel lucky (genuinely) to have such cool books to look forward to.

EXACTLY!

Having a printer shut down, or having someone take forever to sign a signature sheet, or having an author stalling on writing an introduction, or experiencing a global pandemic are out of their hands.

Reasons are not the same thing as excuses (although I suppose the inverse is true). Claiming that CD does nothing but pump out excuses is an unfair claim, especially since they've still succeeded in publishing things in spite of these hardships.

And this is not to mention that their customer service is phenomenal, especially with their presence on these forums!

[Alec]

Were the comments made ‘disrespectful or ignorant’, I do not think so.
This thread affords very little in the way of information. It is inaccurate, gives false hope and causes heated discussions that should not be necessary.
Frankly either cancel an order or wait.

[Brian861]

As discussed on the CD forum; some the "creatives" that CD works with are terrible about holding up their end of the bargain. I.E. getting sig sheets signed, artwork done, and introductions written, etc. Furthermore, if you rush them to get these things done, they get all pouty, won't do a damn thing, and refuse to work with you any longer. And as with the Mandalorian; This is the way. A lot of moving parts in the machine.

Not a dig at Brian or Dan, but when you order from CD, an expected delay is a given and everyone and their brother knows this. So that's on you if you choose to order from them. There is a much bigger problem at CD and his name isn't Brian nor Dan. Brian is in fact dong a damn good job of washing that stigma off himself by the way he's running his press and his Patreon campaign.

And calling out my fellow collectors here, but ordering trades and books from other publishers through them is just dumb. You guys know those things are going to get caught up in shipping queue Hell and be delayed well beyond the release date from the original source. Sure you could save 10-20% via CDCC on a lot of these items, but again, eyes wide open that a delay will ensue.

[Splync]

Were the comments made ‘disrespectful or ignorant’, I do not think so.
This thread affords very little in the way of information. It is inaccurate, gives false hope and causes heated discussions that should not be necessary.
Frankly either cancel an order or wait.

For clarification, my remark about the disrespectful and ignorant comments was solely directed at Richard.

"Medieval monks could produce these books much faster than CD. If it was a situation in which this just happened occasionally, then no big deal. But it is the norm. It is quite simply the worst run business that I have encountered. Ever. They are long on excuses, but short on making any changes to address the problems. I won't order anything from them if I can obtain it somewhere else."

Can one respectfully call a company "the worst run business... Ever."? I also do not know that I've ever been respectfully told that someone else (medieval monk or otherwise) can do my job better than me, but then again, I'm not in the publishing world.

The "ignorant" part was in reference to him saying that they just continue to make excuses and never try to correct anything. As I said, printers closing and global pandemics are both situations that are completely out of their control. I wouldn't call them excuses. And to say that they don't change anything IS ignorant. Finding another printer IS doing something. It isn't like they just closed up shop because they hit a couple of bumpy patches over the years.

I'm simply trying to defend them against such claims because they are certainly NOT one of the worst businesses (publishers or otherwise) out there.

My goal wasn't to change Richard's mind; after all, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But I will refute claims that CD does nothing but "offer excuses" and "doesn't do anything to change", since those are simply not true. After all, they still are publishing books and there have been several titles that have been released in the past few months.

But hey, I guess my tendency to type out long sentences and paragraphs has been misconstrued as being an asshole. I'm sorry for being an English major who can be verbose and for any offense that that has apparently caused.

[Brian861]

I don't know about books, but word on the street is that monks can make some killer booze.

[Splync]

I don't know about books, but word on the street is that monks can make some killer booze.

If Final Fantasy has taught me anything, they are also quite good with their fists in a fight!

[daniel_pyle]

I don't know about books, but word on the street is that monks can make some killer booze.

I say we get a bottle and pass it around!

[Joe315]

I know I'm pretty new here and I'm not sure I really deserve a say, but I do have eight items currently on order with CD, two of them dating back to 2017, so I hope no one minds if I chime in.

Yes, the waiting sucks, but from what I understand about the situation, I don't know what else anyone there could have done to avoid the problem. I'm not an insider, and I freely admit there might be factors I'm not privy to or simply don't understand, but it's not like they're printing the books themselves or personally signing signature pages. There seem to be a lot of gears in the machine, and when one (or more) of those gears gets stripped, it's going to take time to get things moving again, right? And that's not even factoring in a global pandemic!

In the plumber analogy, you have to remember that someone stole the plumber's wrench, and the company he orders wrenches from went bankrupt, and his backup supplier only offers wrenches too small to do the job, and they're out of stock right now anyway. He could come over, but without his tools, all he can do is hang out and have a beer.

I've always gotten great customer service from Cemetery Dance, and I think the products are worth the wait, no matter how frustrating the lag might be. Plus, I feel like the sales and memberships they frequently offer more than make up for the downsides of ordering from them. I'm going to end up getting many of my books for probably half what they should have cost me. I'm honestly amazed CD is able to do it at all, especially given the general decline of bookstores and publishers. Maybe I should be annoyed, but I just feel lucky (genuinely) to have such cool books to look forward to.

EXACTLY!

Having a printer shut down, or having someone take forever to sign a signature sheet, or having an author stalling on writing an introduction, or experiencing a global pandemic are out of their hands.

Reasons are not the same thing as excuses (although I suppose the inverse is true). Claiming that CD does nothing but pump out excuses is an unfair claim, especially since they've still succeeded in publishing things in spite of these hardships.

And this is not to mention that their customer service is phenomenal, especially with their presence on these forums!

This thread is 13 years old and is riddled with the same complaints through out its 20000 posts. Brian and Dan are great ambassadors for cd and I’m sure have told Richard about the complaints. It’s Richards business. Dan and Brian just work there.

[Brian861]

It’s Richards business. Dan and Brian just work there.

Mic drop.

[Roseannebarr]

As discussed on the CD forum; some the "creatives" that CD works with are terrible about holding up their end of the bargain. I.E. getting sig sheets signed, artwork done, and introductions written, etc. Furthermore, if you rush them to get these things done, they get all pouty, won't do a damn thing, and refuse to work with you any longer. And as with the Mandalorian; This is the way. A lot of moving parts in the machine.

Not a dig at Brian or Dan, but when you order from CD, an expected delay is a given and everyone and their brother knows this. So that's on you if you choose to order from them. There is a much bigger problem at CD and his name isn't Brian nor Dan. Brian is in fact dong a damn good job of washing that stigma off himself by the way he's running his press and his Patreon campaign.

And calling out my fellow collectors here, but ordering trades and books from other publishers through them is just dumb. You guys know those things are going to get caught up in shipping queue Hell and be delayed well beyond the release date from the original source. Sure you could save 10-20% via CDCC on a lot of these items, but again, eyes wide open that a delay will ensue.

Maybe a better business model- Given all the delays is doing what Ps pub and letterpress are doing. Collecting $$ closer to release date of their more expensive books.

[east-tennessee]

In business as in life, few things stay the same. Companies must be willing to move with the times and adjust their operations in response to increased competition, technological advances, stakeholder expectations and other pressures. True business change is more than just a rudder shift, however. It's the result of a structured and planned process to make the company more efficient and profitable.

[jeffingoff]

I agree with everyone.

I was joking when I wrote that, but it's true.

I agree with the frustrations of so many who have given so much money, time, and faith to CD and gotten only a tight little trickle of return on that energy.
I agree that CD has suffered a litany of unfortunate events that rival those engineered by Count Olaf.
I agree that complaining about the ensuing delays is as useful as beating a horse deader 'n Mr. Ed.
I agree that there's only so much Brian, Dan, and Mindy can do without Richard stepping into the line of fire. (really, think about all the heat Brian and Dan continue to take here and how they continue to handle disgruntled folks right out in the open for all of us to read--that takes no small amount of patience, self-control, and courage. At the very least they've earned my respect for that.)

But mostly I agree with the point that's been made upthread--at this point we all know what to expect. And if you feel the business hasn't or won't change their end of things, then you need to change your end of things. It's either: buy and wait or don't buy and move on. Complaining won't change anything. But changing your behavior will change things. Change = change. And The Changeling was a fantastic movie (the George C Scott one not the Jolie one--though that one was pretty good).

I'm in the buy and wait camp. And knowing I've put myself there and who I'm doing business with I've chosen to be patient and wait. I haven't cancelled any of my preorders. And I haven't emailed asking where my Jane Goes North is. Because I know. I am aware. Though I don't buy as much as I used to. Being told my salary is about to go over a cliff has a little to do with that. But until that trickle turns into a flowing raging river, I'll probably be very picky with my preorders from CD.

[allasorte]

The Exorcist Screenplay Lettered edition, does anyone know when those will be shipped? Thank you

[ur2ndbiggestfan]

Mr. Ed is dead !!!???
I never saw that in the obituaries thread.
Now I'm totally depressed, of course, of course.

[Randall Flagg]

Mr. Ed is dead !!!???
I never saw that in the obituaries thread.
Now I'm totally depressed, of course, of course.

The horse that played Mr. Ed is said to have died in 1979 at the age of thirty, thirty-three, or thirty-four (depending on the source). Other, equally reputable sources, give the horse's date of death as 1968, 1973, and 1974.

[St. Troy]

...I guess my tendency to type out long sentences and paragraphs has been misconstrued as being an asshole. I'm sorry for being an English major who can be verbose and for any offense that that has apparently caused.

My (internet) experience has always been that explaining myself in detail often only intensifies existing misunderstandings (make of that what you will).

[Brian861]

Mr. Ed is dead !!!???
I never saw that in the obituaries thread.
Now I'm totally depressed, of course, of course.

The horse that played Mr. Ed is said to have died in 1979 at the age of thirty, thirty-three, or thirty-four (depending on the source). Other, equally reputable sources, give the horse's date of death as 1968, 1973, and 1974.

Often seen being ridden by Elvis and Kennedy on their horse range out in Montana.

[MLG]

I don't know about books, but word on the street is that monks can make some killer booze.

Here in the Northwest they make killer fudge and truffles! https://www.brigittine.org/

[Hunchback Jack]

...I guess my tendency to type out long sentences and paragraphs has been misconstrued as being an asshole. I'm sorry for being an English major who can be verbose and for any offense that that has apparently caused.

My (internet) experience has always been that explaining myself in detail often only intensifies existing misunderstandings (make of that what you will).

Yes.

[DanHocker]

RE: Night Shift. I'll tell you all this, the last thing I want or can even handle is the cases for Night Shift dragging on too long. My storage warehouse is already packed to the brim and adding Night Shift books on top of that will put us at overflowing. No one wants the cases to be done sooner than I do, as the warehouse guys and myself are the ones who have to figure out where to put all the books until the cases get made. Timing is really unfortunate because we'll have 2 projects sitting in the warehouse that take up a ton of space just waiting on cases. The best of CD 2 limited and soon all of Night Shift. So the sooner we're able to get the cases manufactured the better for everyone. Better for you guys so you have the books you ordered, better for us so we aren't choked to death by stationary product.

[Ari_Racing]

Dan or Brian, do you have an estimate date when The Stand will be up for sale?

[DanHocker]

Dan or Brian, do you have an estimate date when The Stand will be up for sale?

If we do things how we've done them in the past, it won't be until after we ship Night Shift.

[St. Troy]

...the last thing I want or can even handle is the cases for Night Shift dragging on too long...the sooner we're able to get the cases manufactured the better for everyone...

Dan: keeping in mind, of course, that you can't see the future, control the case maker, or cure COVID, I have a general question: how long does it typically take a case maker to make cases once they've been provided with a physical book? Is it like X number of weeks to design, then Y number of weeks to produce and ship to CD, etc.? Just curious about the general lay of the land.

[Ben Mears]

RE: Night Shift. I'll tell you all this, the last thing I want or can even handle is the cases for Night Shift dragging on too long. My storage warehouse is already packed to the brim and adding Night Shift books on top of that will put us at overflowing. No one wants the cases to be done sooner than I do, as the warehouse guys and myself are the ones who have to figure out where to put all the books until the cases get made. Timing is really unfortunate because we'll have 2 projects sitting in the warehouse that take up a ton of space just waiting on cases. The best of CD 2 limited and soon all of Night Shift. So the sooner we're able to get the cases manufactured the better for everyone. Better for you guys so you have the books you ordered, better for us so we aren't choked to death by stationary product.

How about shipping Night Shift without the cases and sending them along when they have been completed? That would open up some warehouse space.

[DanHocker]

...the last thing I want or can even handle is the cases for Night Shift dragging on too long...the sooner we're able to get the cases manufactured the better for everyone...

Dan: keeping in mind, of course, that you can't see the future, control the case maker, or cure COVID, I have a general question: how long does it typically take a case maker to make cases once they've been provided with a physical book? Is it like X number of weeks to design, then Y number of weeks to produce and ship to CD, etc.? Just curious about the general lay of the land.

Brian will have to answer that one, I'm not really sure.