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Thread: The 12 Guardians of the Beams

  1. #26
    Kingslayer John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze's Avatar

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    BUT, my friend.

    What I'm saying, towards the end of Roland's world, before it started moving on, Sombra must have already owned the company, do you understand what I mean?
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  2. #27
    Salvation Comes w/ a Cost OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO's Avatar

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    How does that lead to the beam equipment being built after Sombra aquired control, though? My point is that all of this equipment has NCP logos because they knew about the beams and were working to help them stay in proper order, but then Sombra initiated a hostile takeover of the company(or something of taht nature) and gained control of it all. That is the point at which it all started to fall apart, because Sombra stopped maintaining it all and let it fall into disarray instead of directly destroying it so that they could maintain their corporate front. This rpobaly happened before the world started moving on because it was part of a number of things that caused the moving on.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  3. #28
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    Yeah, but then Sombra, who belongs to the CK, whom has breakers trying to BREAK the fucken beam, can't just send people to destroy the beam boosting boxes and kill the beam guardians?

    It still doesn't make sense.

    The only way I can figure, and I don't think Sk did it on purpose or meant it to be interpreted that way, is that The Crimson King wants the topple of the Tower, and thus the destruction of the multiverse, hence the failure of NCPs beam boosters and guardians may be an intelligent design goal instead of an accidental fuckup.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  4. #29
    Salvation Comes w/ a Cost OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO's Avatar

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    Who's to say that the beam breakers were there and active as long as the NCP equipment was? Perhaps the beam breakers came after Sombra started taking a less insidious methodology in the destruction of the tower. Most all evil grabs for power or destruction of good start with small insidious moved before outright hostility starts.I would even assume that North Central Positronics was active and making equipment before the time of Arthur Eld, and consequently before the time of The Crimson King, since Arthur Eld was after the world had moved on and they were trying to replace the equipment that had lead the world to ruin with magic and they were just rediscovering guns in Arthur's time. So, it is likely that NCP built all of the beam equipment before the world was destroyed by technology and moved on. Then the Crimson King acquired NCP through Sombra so that noone would take up where they left off and try to repair the equipment(which was probably highly unlikely anyway since the people working for The White already had a distrust of technology), so having control of the company, he didn't need to destroy it, he only had to keep the company from repairing it.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  5. #30
    Salvation Comes w/ a Cost OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO's Avatar

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    Also, I realize my theory changed a bit as this thread has progressed, but I am just exploring ideas, and like I said before, am probably way off anyway. I don't have a set theory on it.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  6. #31
    Kingslayer John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by OchrisO View Post
    Who's to say that the beam breakers were there and active as long as the NCP equipment was? Perhaps the beam breakers came after Sombra started taking a less insidious methodology in the destruction of the tower. Most all evil grabs for power or destruction of good start with small insidious moved before outright hostility starts.I would even assume that North Central Positronics was active and making equipment before the time of Arthur Eld, and consequently before the time of The Crimson King, since Arthur Eld was after the world had moved on and they were trying to replace the equipment that had lead the world to ruin with magic and they were just rediscovering guns in Arthur's time. So, it is likely that NCP built all of the beam equipment before the world was destroyed by technology and moved on. Then the Crimson King acquired NCP through Sombra so that noone would take up where they elft off and try to repair the equipment(which was probably highly unlikely anyway since the people working for The White already had a distrust of technology), so having control of the company, he didn't need to destroy it, he only had to keep the company from repairing it.
    dude! try making different paragraphs! I'm too tired to comprehend this today, i'll reply tomorrow.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  7. #32
    Salvation Comes w/ a Cost OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO's Avatar

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    That's all one paragraph because it deals with one aspect of the subject. It is also only five sentences and doesn't warrant a new paragraph. There's no point in blaming my writing style for your tiredness and inability to comprehend what I said.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  8. #33
    Kingslayer John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze's Avatar

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    touchy touchy....

    yeah, you're right, and I'll post tomorrow.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  9. #34
    Kingslayer John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by OchrisO View Post
    Who's to say that the beam breakers were there and active as long as the NCP equipment was? Perhaps the beam breakers came after Sombra started taking a less insidious methodology in the destruction of the tower. Most all evil grabs for power or destruction of good start with small insidious moved before outright hostility starts.
    BUt there's Doors, the Sombra Corp has access to other worlds, wouldn't they be able to send someone back to destroy the beam boosters and the guardians?

    Quote Originally Posted by OchrisO View Post
    I would even assume that North Central Positronics was active and making equipment before the time of Arthur Eld, and consequently before the time of The Crimson King, since Arthur Eld was after the world had moved on and they were trying to replace the equipment that had lead the world to ruin with magic and they were just rediscovering guns in Arthur's time.
    Before the time of the CK? I don't think so. I believe that the CK is timeless in his own way, that his world in relation to the others is like Narnia. Time flies by in the others and such thousands of years can pass within his lifetime.

    Quote Originally Posted by OchrisO View Post
    So, it is likely that NCP built all of the beam equipment before the world was destroyed by technology and moved on. Then the Crimson King acquired NCP through Sombra so that noone would take up where they left off and try to repair the equipment(which was probably highly unlikely anyway since the people working for The White already had a distrust of technology), so having control of the company, he didn't need to destroy it, he only had to keep the company from repairing it.
    But that's stupid. If your stated goal is the destruction of the Tower, Yesterday shouldn't be soon enough. Especially if he knows that Roland is on his way and gunning for him. There's always that inherent risk.

    If he did what you said it's like when Dr. Evil has Austin Powers and puts him in a place where he has a chance to escape "No, I'm just gonna assume he doesn't escape and everything goes according to my plan, What?"

    It makes no sense.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  10. #35
    Salvation Comes w/ a Cost OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO's Avatar

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    [edit] "The Dark Tower: The Gunslinger Born"
    In issue #2 of this series it is revealed that the Abbalah/Los is the offspring of King Arthur Eld of All-World and the oldest of the Great Ones, red, spider-like creatures created from the Prim. After being presented 13 magical spheres by the treacherous Maerlyn (a Great One as well) and the monsters of the Prim in human disguise, Arthur and his court are changed by their chaotic magic. Sir Kay Deschain, the king's most trusted advisor, is the only one left unaffected. When he goes to spy on Maerlyn and his party, Sir Kay sees the Great Ones shed their human forms. Worst of all, the red spider is having her way with Arthur. Sir Kay injures the creature and drives off the Great Ones at the cost of his own life, but the damage is already done. The creature has conceived and will give birth to a son. Maerlyn prophesies that this red prince would be a ruler of chaos but would fall to a human descendant of Arthur Eld named Roland.
    So, The Crimson King didn't exist until Arthur Eld did the pants dance with his mommy. Therefore, the Crimson King had to come into existence sometime after NCP had created all of this stuff and technology had failed and almost destroyed the world. Also, I got the impression that The Crimson King was never in any sort of hurry to destroy the tower until he saw the Roland was getting close to it. That is the nature of presumably immortal(immortal in the aspect taht he probably wouldn't have died unless he killed himself or someone killed him) beings. When you ahev time on your side, there's no hurry. We only get in a hurry to do stuff because we know that we have roughly x number of years to accomplish anything. That was never a corcern for Los.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  11. #36
    Kingslayer John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze's Avatar

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    Wow. I have that, but I guess I didn't read it that closely, or did and forgot, or didn't and thought I did. Hmm.

    Ok, you get that point, guvnor, but what about my other two replies?
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  12. #37
    Salvation Comes w/ a Cost OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO has a spectacular aura about OchrisO's Avatar

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    I'm not sure, other than the idea that I never got the impression that he was in a great big hurry to destroy the tower until he discovered that Roland was close to his goal, at which point he went crazy in his haste. Perhaps it was just arrogance in that he thought that he had all the time that he wanted and didn't need to get in any hurry.


    Villains generally have a flaw that allows them to be defeated. it is usually arrogance of some sort. that's what the character of Dr Evil in Austin Powers makes fun of. Maybe Los neve rthought taht Roland would succeed in his goals and he was arrogant in the idea that he was in no danger of losing until it was upon him.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  13. #38
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    This is some incredibly juicy chat...I'm loving this thread. Your questions Bruno are some good ones....let me have a thunk about them and get back to you. And your answers Chris are spot on as far as I seem them.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  14. #39
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Oh I'm sorry! Did I interrupt a private chat in a public thread?
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  15. #40
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    Haha, I think I have exhausted all that I can say on it for now, plus I have to get ready for work soon.

    I was starting to wonder if anyone else was going to chime in, though.
    There's one hole in every revolution, large or small. And it's one word long.. people. No matter how big the idea they all stand under, people are small and weak and cheap and frightened. It's people that kill every revolution.

  16. #41
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    John, my purposes here are two fold: 1) to let you know that you are not alone in pointing the ambiguity of the beams and 2) to suggest that this ambiguity might be representative of the dualistic nature of the Tower metaphysically.

    I posted this in the "what is the tower" thread a few months ago

    One of the things I recently discussed with someone was the lack of metaphysical descriptions of the tower. One of the paradoxes that I can't get my head around is that the tower seems to represent both good (the beams, Gan) and evil (the Great Old Ones who tried to manufacture the prim with technology) simultaneously without distinction. This being said, King does not use the same ambiguity in discussing the protagonists and antagonists of the story. I.e. Roland represents the "white" while C.K. represents the "red" and other antagonists represent the "black." Even the beams themselves are ambiguous. They need saving and in some way represent Gan, yet weren't they made by the old ones and are part of North Central Positronics etc..? I'm thinking of the scene in Wastelands where the portal of Shardik is described. Eddie is scared to death when he places his ear against the machinery, yet this same machinery is what created the beams and the tower. It seems like a very dualistic cosmology to me. Is the tower the embodiment of the dualistic nature of Gan/God- both good and evil? Help me out if it pleases ya. I say thank ya big big.

    Maybe it would be helpful to start thinking about it like this, perhaps not.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    They need saving and in some way represent Gan, yet weren't they made by the old ones and are part of North Central Positronics etc..? I'm thinking of the scene in Wastelands where the portal of Shardik is described. Eddie is scared to death when he places his ear against the machinery, yet this same machinery is what created the beams and the tower. It seems like a very dualistic cosmology to me. Is the tower the embodiment of the dualistic nature of Gan/God- both good and evil? Help me out if it pleases ya. I say thank ya big big.

    Maybe it would be helpful to start thinking about it like this, perhaps not.
    But NCP didn't create the beams, the beams are a magical apparatus which holds up the Tower and Probably goes back to the indefinite past. However, when the beams started failing NCP made these Beam Boosters (my words) to help them stay strong. The machinery didn't create the beams and Tower, the Tower is like God, it always was and always will be.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  18. #43
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Song of Susannah and Comic book Spoilers below



    Spoiler:

    Its mentioned in SOS and in issue 2 of The Gunslinger Born that there was a point when there was no Dark Tower...The Dark Tower (Gan) arose from the Prim.
    The Beams were originally purely spiritual entities but when the Great Old Ones tried to conquer the Dark Tower they damaged it and the Beams and the GOOs, having mastered combining magic and technology tried to repair them using technology.
    Like Chris has already said, it appears that North Central Positronics was most likely taken over by Sombra.




    This post has been edited by maerlyn
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I agree with CK on this one, and that's why I see it representative of both good and evil, which seems to fit the dualistic views that DT seems to espouse. The prim was all that was needed before it receded.

  20. #45
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    God, i'm gonna pull out my TGB and read them all over again, I'm getting buttfucked by these quotes.
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  21. #46
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Its implied in the DT books too, but I don't want to stand in the way of you getting buttfucked.

  22. #47
    Kingslayer John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze is a jewel in the rough John Blaze's Avatar

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    no it is not, or I would know.

    give me some page numbers, fuckface!
    "So many vows. They make you swear and swear. Defend the King, obey the King, obey your father, protect the innocent, defend the weak. But what if your father despises the King? What if the King massacres the innocent? It's too much. No matter what you do, you're forsaking one vow or another."

  23. #48
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Page numbers forthcoming when I get a little time, fuckface.

  24. #49
    Interplay Fan HanzouNorak is on a distinguished road HanzouNorak's Avatar

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    ok forgive my shitty memory but,

    exactly where does it say the Sombra own NCP? and if it never did say that;

    maybe the CKs cronies found NCP tech and used it rather than Sombra owning NCP before hand, this would explain the lack of action against the Beam Boosters, they simply didn't know about them,after all if there was a nuke war, how did Sombra survive? and since we see Sombra is run by Taheen, it more likely somthing the Taheen went back and created to hunt down the Rose, and eventualy probaly Stephen King.

    or, considering how Shardik was outta control, how could they manage getting close to the Beam Booster? they couldn't move in heavy artilery (if they had any) because of the woods, and conventional lasers, sneetches, energy swords, and guns would be superfical damage on a creature/machine that size.

  25. #50
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by HanzouNorak View Post
    ok forgive my shitty memory but,

    exactly where does it say the Sombra own NCP? and if it never did say that;
    It doesn't say that, it is a theory of mine.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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