It - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

[DT1999]

I am listening to the new audiobook of IT right now and I forgot how scary it is. I think it is the only book that can still give me nightmares. It is so strange, I haven't read this book since I was 15. It's almost like I have never read it because my perceptions are so different than they were 10 years ago. At 15 I didn't even bat an eye at THE Sex Scene. It doesn't bother me now, but I did have to morally ask myself if I was okay with it and convince myself that I was. That is just a major example though. I just think it's cool how much better I "get" the adults in the book and understand their thoughts and motivations.

I found the underground gangbang quite odd; Eddie perhaps needed to clear his head?

Just finished the book last night and enjoyed it... Kinda agree with the earlier post about ending it with killing It but then again at least by dragging it out it gives Silver his final place in the book.

Had a hard time starting this one though. Read about 30 pages in the first week but finished the book in a month, seemed like once I got in there it flew by.

[TheCrisisKing]

The Nostalgia Critic, as promised, has delivered a piss pants hilarious review of the dreadful adaptation of one of the most beloved horror novels of all time. Not only does he rip IT a new one but Stephen King's style as well. DO NOT BE ANGERED THOUGH. THIS IS A SATIRE. If you can't laugh at the flaws of your beloved then you aint much of a fan. http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/vid...ritic/28239-it Pennywise Lives!

[John_and_Yoko]

I loved that "I Love Lucy" reference....

I beg to differ with our friend, though--balloons ARE scary.

But of course "Dr. Smith" would come back....

[flaggwalkstheline]

that guy with the glasses is so awesome

[TheCrisisKing]

"The clown really doesn't do anything to the kid except point at him and call him fat.....what-a-jerk

[mystima]

love the Spaceballs reference

[maerlyns_rainbow]

I am currently re-reading IT for a second time, and I had to come see what others think about this story. I personally love the book, for all the reasons everyone has already stated. I don't really have anything to add, I just had to say I think it's interesting how many people were offended by the sex scene (myself included, at least the first time through.) We all chose to read this book, probably knowing something about SK's other works (violent, scary, and many situations that are not necessarily "p.c.") and of all the horrible things that happen in the story,

Spoiler:

George's arm being ripped off, Eddie Cocoran's head being torn off, the step dad that beats the younger Cocoran boy to death with a hammer, Tom Rogan's vicious beatings of both Bev and Kay, the list goes on and on

it just seems strange to me that the sex scene is the most graphic or disturbing part to anyone. I read many SK books before getting around to IT, and I feel as though I know his writing style very well, yet even while reading some of these scenes a second time, I get goosebumps and chills and think, "How could characters so evil exist and events so horrible happen?" Because although IT is only a book, these kinds of things happen in real life every day. I realize now that I'd rather read (or see) a scene about a physical act of love, no matter how twisted from my own views on the subject, than the horrible, violent things that happen to the characters in IT.

EDIT: I want to go back and say that I'm not saying the scene isn't odd or doesn't seem out-of-place, because I agree with those who think that is is and does. I'm just speculating on the strangeness of us all that see sex (even if they are 11) as a scarier/worse thing than murder and death.

[pathoftheturtle]

Seems the only readers who didn't find it disconcerting are those of us who first read It as pre-teens ourselves.

The tendency you're talking about to react more to sex than to violence is cultural. I know it's often commented on / joked about when puritan censors go to work. Modern media have totally desensitized most people to murder and mayhem.

...although IT is only a book, these kinds of things happen in real life every day. ...

A very good point.

The important thing is that King does care about these issues, IMO. I don't believe he wrote any of It with a callous attitude.

[maerlyns_rainbow]

Seems the only readers who didn't find it disconcerting are those of us who first read It as pre-teens ourselves.

The tendency you're talking about to react more to sex than to violence is cultural. I know it's often commented on / joked about when puritan censors go to work. Modern media have totally desensitized most people to murder and mayhem.

...although IT is only a book, these kinds of things happen in real life every day. ...

A very good point.

The important thing is that King does care about these issues, IMO. I don't believe he wrote any of It with a callous attitude.

The difference we place between sex and violence is totally cultural. Like how in Europe, movies with violence are rated more mature than movies with sex. But in America is exactly the opposite, it seems. You can't show two people having sex on tv (well, anymore you can show just about anything, but they do censor it) but look at how many shows about violent crime there are (not to mention how popular they are!)

I also think King writes about issues that are important to him, and that he takes every word he writes very seriously. It takes some guts to be a middle-aged white guy writing about the issues that he does. And he always has a wonderful point of view, even from characters that it must be hard for him to understand exactly where they would be coming from (like Mike's dad remembering about the fire at The Black Spot.) Just one of the many things to admire about him. (It's always creeps me out how he could be so into the mind of some of his more twisted and deranged characters. I don't know how anyone could think like that!)

[Son of Paul]

(It's always creeps me out how he could be so into the mind of some of his more twisted and deranged characters. I don't know how anyone could think like that!)

When it comes to the true bad guys, they are usually monsters or powerful creatures not of our world. They are the truly wicked, the truly evil. With the human bad guys, King uses them as mentally unstable, or sympathetic victims of earlier abuses. That's the pattern I've noticed, at least. It makes them seem fuller as characters, and allows King himself into their minds. Real people, with some misfire in their brain that allows the bad things to be justified (by the individual bad guys).

[Rice Dancer]

Which narrator?

[lordmerchant]

Just finished up reading IT this week for the very first time...and wow what took me so long to get around to it!!?
I have seen the mini-series many, many times in my life so I had a vague idea of the premise, I did not kid myself that I would know the plot exactly, as we all know King's is just too immense to distil into a movie (without it being 17 hours long).

I heard a lot of reviews and hearsay saying that IT is a bit slow to get going and to stick with IT, all would be worth IT in the end, but I have to say I did have experience myself. Generally I prefer his more weighty novels (the stand, UTD, DT series etc) so I found the character development and back stories/diversions fantastic. I loved all the characters but was drawn to Bill and Ben in particular, this is in part due to excellent characterisation and partly because I used to be a fat kid with a stutter. The way these two guys seemed completely real to me was massive, I found myself wondering how much of himself King poured into these guys – they seem TOO REAL to be fictional.
I found myself a little shocked by the sex scene in the sewers in the closing chapters, not lynch-mob shocked, just “crap, didn’t see that coming” kinda shocked. I can definitely see my self coming back to this time and again.

Rob

[ICry4Oy]

Based on what you say lordmerchant, I may just have to purchase and read "IT" afterall. I saw, and hated, the mini-series so I never bothered with the book. May just have to rectify that now...

[Jean]

bears are shocked beyond words

ICry4Oy - It is the Best Book King has Ever Written.

The miniseries are minipieces of maxishit.

Drop everything now, I repeat evertyhing, go get the book and READ IT.

Yes, now. Switch your computer off.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Sex should be less censored because it helps the world move on, making life, in many instances, and celebrating life in other instances.

Violence however helps life end. Whether it be physically to die, or to emotionally or spiritually die, violence does not help life.

[pathoftheturtle]

Sex should be less censored because it helps the world move on, making life, in many instances, and celebrating life in other instances.

Violence however helps life end. Whether it be physically to die, or to emotionally or spiritually die, violence does not help life.

Hm. You sure have a point on one level. But if reproduction is good for the continuation of life, so is a stable home for children. I can see why some would object to a portrayal appearing dismissive of monogamy. However, censorship in general is a whole other complex issue; I'm not at all sure that it's justifiable in any case. And, anyway, I think (as I've tried to say here eariler) that when you dig into the full novel, It says a lot more about love & sexuality than we tend to first notice.

[LadyHitchhiker]

Sex should be less censored because it helps the world move on, making life, in many instances, and celebrating life in other instances.

Violence however helps life end. Whether it be physically to die, or to emotionally or spiritually die, violence does not help life.

Hm. You sure have a point on one level. But if reproduction is good for the continuation of life, so is a stable home for children. I can see why some would object to a portrayal appearing dismissive of monogamy. However, censorship in general is a whole other complex issue; I'm not at all sure that it's justifiable in any case. And, anyway, I think (as I've tried to say here eariler) that when you dig into the full novel, It says a lot more about love & sexuality than we tend to first notice.

I agree with you. I guess I didn't explain my whole point. Sex is great, don't get me wrong, but it's best in monogamy. Also, some of the dirty sex acts that are portrayed don't assist with the continuation of the species and can be rather traumatic to individuals - especially young ones - watching it. But some of these videos made popular simply by being censored I would hope would not be nearly as popular if there wasn't such a profound censorship in our media. I mean, you used to be able to watch The Discovery Channel and Animal Planet and learn about reproduction amongst animals - that's as natural as natural can be - and now when you watch those channels, if it DOES portray the animals of the wild kingdom, it's almost always matters of violence done by them or unto them. How is watching animals being abused, or watching animals simply shredding each other apart going to help with the continuation of life?

And I loved It. I understood the depth of love that they had for each other. I have nothing against It. Yes, it was a bit overwhelming and confusing because of cultural matters that have formed opinions inside my head, and because of spiritual standpoints that I have, but ultimately I still stand by my basis that I think sex should be less considered "dirty" and violence should instead.

[CrimsonMordred]

I agree, I think violence is much more damaging to the psyche. The movies that are rated X should be the snuff films and especially violent films. While I do believe sex should not be considered for children, I think blood and gore is not to be taken lightly either.

And IT (as you can tell by my signature) is by far my favorite book. It just has so many different little stories inside of it, and so many different, and colorful characters, that reading it multiple times is a real thrill. Pennywise has to be one of the greatest villains of all times.

Do you know how Stephen King was inspired to write this story?

[Fabled]

Well, I am a bit more than halfway through IT and am not at all upset about reading the spoilers. Not really looking forward to the sewer sex in the end, but I'm sure I'll get by.
^_^

So far, I'm really into it and loving the story.
I love how King really makes statements about the histories and attitudes of the towns he writes about. I feel like when I finish a book of his, or a chapter, that I've learned a little bit more about American history and human nature.

I especially love the shifty nature of the Deary old-timers who know that something is up but won't talk about it. Like the most grotesque and best kept secret.

[Seymour_Glass]

The miniseries are minipieces of maxishit.

Too much truth for one post.

[beam*seeker]

Well, I am a bit more than halfway through IT and am not at all upset about reading the spoilers. Not really looking forward to the sewer sex in the end, but I'm sure I'll get by.
^_^

So far, I'm really into it and loving the story.
I love how King really makes statements about the histories and attitudes of the towns he writes about. I feel like when I finish a book of his, or a chapter, that I've learned a little bit more about American history and human nature.

I especially love the shifty nature of the Deary old-timers who know that something is up but won't talk about it. Like the most grotesque and best kept secret.

I wish you guys had marked the sewer gangbang post as a spoiler, I am about half way through myself. And I hope the fact that I already saw the maxishit miniseries won't spoil the ending.

[Jean]

beam, there is a spoiler warning in the title of this thread. It means that those who haven't finished reading should realize that people won't spoiler-tag any It-related content

[beam*seeker]

beam, there is a spoiler warning in the title of this thread. It means that those who haven't finished reading should realize that people won't spoiler-tag any It-related content

Must have missed the warning. I really did not feel that part though.

[AndrewP]

Again, I am pleased to see that so many people here feel the same about so many things King-related as I do. The gangbang in the sewer? The first time through, I was TOTALLY taken aback. I mean, not because it was sex, but because it was a bunch of kids, and it really seemed to come out of NOWHERE! Two summers ago, my girlfriend and I took a cross country trip, coast to coast and back again, and we downloaded the unabridged audio book to listen to while driving around late at night. She had never read any Stephen King before, and going into the story, I told her that she would love the characters, love the story, get freaked out plenty of times, enjoy it thoroughly, etc., but to be prepared for the ending. I didn't tell her anything else, but she was pretty shocked too. However, knowing what was coming, I thought more about why it ends this way. I suppose that the only thing the children have strong enough to stand up to IT is their emotional connection and love for each other. The sex is a physical manifestation of that love. I think? (However, I still feel badly for Beverly, who has to literary bear the brunt of this "outpouring" of love... is this one of the reasons she is unsuccessful in later relationships with men and allows herself to be so horribly abused by Tom? Hmmm...)

On another note, perhaps it was because I was listening to the story this time, and unable to really slow down and concentrate at my pace, but the whole mind-meld with IT seemed incredibly confusing. I wasn't sure what the hell was going on, "biting IT's tongue in his mind", etc. I am sure that I will go back to this book again, and I will be sure to reread that part more carefully. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Odetta]

For Jean... Why I hated the ending of IT...

After the whole sex in the sewer nonsense (which still to this day seems ridiculous and I have no understanding of why that is there) the end just fades into nothingness... I don't want to know what happens to the characters after they battle IT. I want to leave it hanging. Don't try to wrap everything up. Just becomes so anti-climactic and it is such a letdown after a really good read.