I want to agree with you on this valtron...But as I pointed out to Alinda, there just seems to be no unity to bond and do something...What polarizing event would nowadays get people together to make a stand? I will give you one...Global Climate Changes....It scares me to death what is happening, but we cannot get the most intelligent people to agree there is even an issueOriginally Posted by valtr0n
I fear the world will move on before this happens.....
'but not for you Gunslinger, never for you. you darkle. you tinct. may I be brutally frank? You Go on.'
It's very refreshing to see that I am not the only one who defines that word in this way. There is a world of difference between patriotism and nationalism. Unfortunately in recent years the two words have become conflated, and this has been to our detriment as a nation. The kind of "love it or leave it" mentality is sickening. We should always be striving to be a better nation, not just "good enough".
VastOne, there'll never be a unity... I didn't mean to imply that in my post. The views of the people are changing, for the better, and that's a good thing. But, like you said, there won't be any unity, not now. The change of view will come in handy after...
It will take a cataclysmic event to fix things, to wake people up, to tear them down, to bring them back together. I don't know what this event will be. Global warming is a possibility. It doesn't really terrify me. What I do know is that there will be a period of chaos, followed by a period of personal struggle in small communities, followed by a "reboot" of our "nation."
Those who make it through the initial chaos will live to see society as it was intended. Small groups, working together, towards only one common purpose: the continuation and advancement of the species.
Don't you get it?! We are the walking dead! We are the walking dead...
Sounds an awful lot like a certain SK book that happens to be my favorite....
'but not for you Gunslinger, never for you. you darkle. you tinct. may I be brutally frank? You Go on.'
I have just read the synopsis... I would have never believed it existed if I hadn't just seen it with my own eyes. This level of propaganda shows such a total disrespect for one's own people...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps the most disturbing thing is that they could very easily remake that film and change the Russians to "Militant Muslims" and they'd have a huge hit movie. The propaganda hasn't ended, it's just shifted focus. They changed the Red Menace to a Beige Menace and the march to militarization moves on.I have just read the synopsis... I would have never believed it existed if I hadn't just seen it with my own eyes. This level of propaganda shows such a total disrespect for one's own people...
Yes, the muslims have become the new "communists" it seems. There must always be some undefeatable evil. How else do we justify a never ending war?
War sells. It sells magazines, ad time on TV, movie tickets, country music (don't even get me started on Tobi Keith and his ilk) and garners campaign contributions. Not to mention, that those billions of dollars we're spending on war has to end up in someone's pocket, and I'd bet very little of it ends up in the pockets of the men and women actually putting their lives on the line. Feh, it's disgusting.
::bashes head on desk:: I had forgotten all about Red Dawn. Now I'm pissed off and depressed all over again. ::Burns the writer and director in effigy::
Donna
"What can I tell you, baby? I've always been bad."--Spike
did you see Wag the Dog? "...If you take courage, Mom". I fucking thought it was funny. I thought it was a witty exaggeration. I mean, I thought so before the Yougoslavia events...
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Actually, I have not seen Wag the Dog. It's one of those movies I keep meaning to see and when I'm at the video store can never think of, dammit.
Donna
"What can I tell you, baby? I've always been bad."--Spike
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Joseph Goebbels
Sound like a familiar strategy to anyone?
Wag the dog is an amazing movie - it shows just how easily the media can maninpulate the ignorant masses.
It is a pretty good movie. Unfortunately, we no longer need it as an example of how the media can manipulate public opinion. We now have the build-up to the invasion of Iraq as a real-life example. I prefer the movie version. At least nobody real people were killed.
I have just read the synopsis... I would have never believed it existed if I hadn't just seen it with my own eyes. This level of propaganda shows such a total disrespect for one's own people...
I am just stunned the attempts were still being made in 1984!
It's not like it was made in 1962 or 1963 right after "Karibskiy krizis, Карибский кризис,Caribbean Crisis, October Crisis" A.K.A The Cuban Missile Crisis. Why keep at it?
This is Hollywood, should the U.S. government bear the shame of this movie? I think so, maybe. By that time, (age 15 per my birthdate in relation to movie release date) I KNEW I was being fed bullshit. All of these actors, director and producers were born in the 40's and 50's...they were old enough to know better. But our government started all the bull. So...I hold them guilty as well.
Damn!...again I thought to list the things my country did that gave me pride and again I come away with shame.
All that's left of what we were is what we have become.
I feel like a 10 ton wagon loaded with 15 tons of bullshit now.
The cynic in me has been emboldened.
All that's left of what we were is what we have become.
I've been thinking about this all night, and, make no mistake, I am in NO way trying to defend Red Dawn in any way at all. That being said, it IS Hollywood. They only make movies that they think will make a profit. Also, writers write what they know. Whoever wrote this movie grew up with McCarthyism and in a day when a good percentage of the population owned bomb shelters. Same for the producers and directors.
I was about the same age as you when this movie came out, and I also knew it was bullshit, but I was in the vast minority. I remember this movie being a fairly big hit. I live about a two hour drive from places you can see gun racks in the back of pickup trucks. I'm sure the attitudes of the day were better than they were in the mid '60's, but here in the American midwest the redneck types were losing their minds over this movie. Of course, they probably wouldn't have been so gung ho over it if they hadn't gotten nightly news updates from our completely unbiased <~~note the sarcasm news media about the wonderful job our government was doing protecting freedom and all that jazz.
Donna
"What can I tell you, baby? I've always been bad."--Spike
Seeing all your posts on the American 'arrogance' (this is more or less how I see it, at least) I couldn't help a big smile on my face since WE as French are always thought to be an extremely arrogant people. I can't deny that we are and that when we're not France-centric, we are Euro-centric, but this is changing really fast. I never had any American History class since the beginning of it was linked to the history of protestantism and then with the various wars that were fought. War is actually the main thing we study when we're taught history. Just like the British, the French having had such a huge tradition of fighting their neighbours on the ground that they were 'different' and might 'provide something we don't have', it seems natural that we'd be taught things this way.Couldn't agree more. Of course there is cultural ignorance in all parts of the world, but it seems more and more that this is becoming somewhat a point of pride for Americans. Our current administration prides itself on the fact that it does not consider the advice of other nations on particular issues, and Americans rally around that concept as if it were the best possible policy. Consensus and diplomacy are seen by many here as signs of national weakness.
The other issue that I have with the cultural ignorance which pervades much of this country is that it is willful. Jean makes an excellent point about how one chooses to believe or not believe the lies they are being told by their governments and their media and their educators. It has been my observation that many Americans that are ignorant of other cultures are willfully ignorant. They know that there is more than they are being told, they simply don't care to find out. It's easier to just accept the perpetuated truth.
But do not worry too much my friends because of the ridicule of the teaching of world history in the US (after I've seen a CNN map of France in 2005 that put Lyon in Belgium, I do understand that the media don't help people learning what the world is either!) because you are not the only ones! During our last presidential campaign, the media were totally biased and showed all the good things Sarkozy said or did and only the bad ones Ségolène Royal said or did. This actually led most of my stupid friends who are intellectually lazy to believe that what was said in the news was true (this was an even bigger problem since the free news that we're given when taking the metro agreed with what was said in the news but the more elaborate papers that cost 1€ said the opposite, but since no one reads the 'elaborate' papers, all the lazy people voted for Sarkozy. I recently spoke with a friend about this and she admitted that she hadn't really paid attention and had hardly read the flyers they were sending us! So I guess it IS true that it is a human thing and not only American, even if I agree with Jean when he says it's become a way bigger problem in the US than anywhere else. The French people who I've just written about were scorned by other young ones because of their laziness in the end.
I also asked a Japanese friend and she said that in Japan, they were only taught Japanese history (and there are two different ways of teaching it: one that says that what happened during WW2 in Asia was totally shocking and that Japan had to make excuses all over Asia, and another that says the contrary! This is really messed up in my opinion).
What a great thread!I have just read the synopsis... I would have never believed it existed if I hadn't just seen it with my own eyes. This level of propaganda shows such a total disrespect for one's own people...
I am just stunned the attempts were still being made in 1984!
It's not like it was made in 1962 or 1963 right after "Karibskiy krizis, Карибский кризис,Caribbean Crisis, October Crisis" A.K.A The Cuban Missile Crisis. Why keep at it?
This is Hollywood, should the U.S. government bear the shame of this movie? I think so, maybe. By that time, (age 15 per my birthdate in relation to movie release date) I KNEW I was being fed bullshit. All of these actors, director and producers were born in the 40's and 50's...they were old enough to know better. But our government started all the bull. So...I hold them guilty as well.
Damn!...again I thought to list the things my country did that gave me pride and again I come away with shame.
As I was reading through, Red Dawn was the movie that came to mind... also Rocky 4 was really pathetic and there was another one whose name eludes me about 2 American backpackers who accidentally get caught behind Soviet lines and are tortured because they are assumed to be spies.
Having lived in both the US and Canada and being a dual citizen, I feel I have divided loyalties to both countries. Most of my schooling has been in Canada and I must say that we were taught a great deal of WORLD history as well as our own. When we studied Communism, it was simply presented as another type of governance and USSR was one of the examples of this type of government. I don't recall much "propaganda" regarding the "Cold War" in our schooling. Most information on that would have been through the media (primarily from the US).
I have always been annoyed that people in the US know nothing of the history of other countries... we learned about the US, why doesn't the US learn about Canada?
One thing that I have always admired about the US is their pride in their country. Canadians are some of the least patriotic people I know and I often wish that just a little of the Americans enthusiasm would rub off.
Buddy, you think you look strong? You’re wearing a cape.
This makes me think about the American South, and how history is taught there, especially as regards the Civil War and immediately before and after.
I'm not from there myself, but I wonder if anyone who is from that region might enlighten me. After all, since the victors write the history books, doesn't that mean that Southerners would be taught that they practiced slavery and rebelled against the U. S. government and therefore deserved (perhaps needed) what they got? Having learned a little of U. S. history from that time period, I don't believe it was a simple good vs. evil idea. Should they fear being taught a neutral (not to say pro-South) take on that period in American history because it's "wrong"?
I am enrolled in an experiment on line that is measuring the emotional well being of the participants, and recording our self registered data and comparing this data to the Earths activities to find a correlation between what we feel and how our plant reacts .
here is a link if you are interested...http://www.globalcoherenceproject.org/
The answer is within
all matter is energy, all energy is GOD
I guess I just got lucky. I was taught world history in school.
It would seriously be a shame if you took a class in modern history in the US and didn't get to learn world history since the US were all over the place!I guess I just got lucky. I was taught world history in school.
I agree, I've never heard of any high school here that did not teach world history but I've been out of it for a while.
My daughter (senior in HS) has one this semester though.
What I learned from history is we as a species should not repeat it. There have been some pretty serious foul ups in world history haven't there? I think its about time we
try some different techniques to get along better.
PS I enjoyed see the photos posted of you and the Budapest beauties, your all so lovely
The answer is within
I'm not so sure it's a matter of whether or not it's being taught as I had World History in high school as well, but what is being taught in said history class. When I compare what I was taught to what I later found to be true I question the value of the education I got in high school. Of course this is not an across-the-board statement as curriculum varies from school to school and teacher to teacher.
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