General Movie Discussion - **please mark spoilers**

[turtlex]

A quick heads-up for my film-fan-friends here ... there's an excellent documentary that's been on cable this month, which I caught in an art house years ago ... it's called Visions Of Light: The Art of Cinematography from 1992.

All you classic movie people ( Heather!! I thought of you immediately ) will really appreciate all the movies featured, and you contemporary film fans will enjoy the comparisons.

Honestly, it's a great documentary - covers the details, the true art of the cinematographer. Covers movies from the first black and white films through Goodfellas.

It's got to be available on Netflix.

[SigTauGimp]

I actually had just watched that the other night Pam!

And I totally agree, great documentary. I'm a big cinematography fan, so I loved it.

[Heather19]

Thanks Pam! I'll be watching that one right away

Have you by chance ever seen The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing? Editing is probably my favorite aspect of films. This one has been on my list of films to watch as well, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[turtlex]

I actually had just watched that the other night Pam!

And I totally agree, great documentary. I'm a big cinematography fan, so I loved it.

Me, too, Chris. I love the whole aspect and this film did a wonderful job explaining what it is that a cinematrographer does and how it completely effects the storytelling...how it's part of the storytelling.

This is just an excellet documentary.

Thanks Pam! I'll be watching that one right away

Have you by chance ever seen The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing? Editing is probably my favorite aspect of films. This one has been on my list of films to watch as well, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Heather - I've got that one on my to buy list, but haven't seen it yet.

I have always felt that editing was an amazing aspect of filmmaking and have several favorite editors! ( most prominently Thelma Schoonmaker who works so very closely with Martin Scorsese )

Honestly - almost all the technical aspects of filmmaking interest me. Sound Editing and Design is also a fascination of mine ( I think Ben Burtt is a genius ).

One of the coolest documentaries is Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse which follows the making of Apocalypse Now. Amazing stuff, and covers some of the more adventurous and challenging aspects of filmmaking. Not to mention, great behind the scenes footage from the movie, and direct access to Francis Ford Coppola. The film was made with footage supplied by Eleanor Coppola.

[fernandito]

Hearts of Darkness is an amazing documentary, I had the pleasure of seeing that a few months ago. A great insight into the sometimes turbulent world of film making.

[turtlex]

Well said, Feev. Exactly.

[IWasSentWest]

inception. greatest movie of the year

leo is the best actor of our generation. arguments?

[turtlex]

inception. greatest movie of the year

leo is the best actor of our generation. arguments?

Well, I haven't seen Inception yet, but I would argue about Leo with regards to his movies up until that. I'm not a fan of his at all.

[IWasSentWest]

but what other well known actor, if you include there whole body of work, really compares? every movie he's been in (besides the beach) is usually one of the top movies of the year. you have:

the quick and the dead
romeo + juliet (eh, some liked it lol)
titanic
the man in the iron mask
catch me if you can
gangs of new york
the aviator
blood diamond
the departed
body of lies
revolutionary road
shutter island
inception

those are all outstanding movies IMO, with most of them being blockbuster hits.

my generation, i usually consider that to be 40-45 years old or younger. i just can't think of another actor that, as whole, really competes. he may not have the most talent, but the movies he's in are almost guaranteed to be great. and he's been in a lot of them, which impresses me more. people like daniel day lewis would def. be up near the top, but DDL just isn't in a lot of movies, so i can't really compare the two.

[DoctorDodge]

That's a lot of good movies he's been in, IWasSentWest, but you did state, and I quote:

leo is the best actor of our generation.

To which I just say...no. I can think of better actors out there, hell, even as a proud British bastard who's a fan of everything with John Simm in it, I can think of a lot better American actors out there, and one specifically comes to mind from a film on your list: Matt Damon. Now I've only seen a few of his large number of movies, including the Departed, Dogma, and the first 2 Bourne films, but they've all been good, and I've heard a lot of good things about his other films, too. So not only has he appeared in a lot of movies, imho I believe he's a much better actor than Leo.

I'm not saying Matt Damon is the best actor of our generation, I'm also a fan of Joseph Gordon-Levitt, although I'll be honest in that I'm not sure if it's because of his acting ability or the fact that he's usually in great films, but I'm just pointing out that there are a lot better actors than Leo out there.

[IWasSentWest]

Matt Damon is up there, but he's cameo'd and starred in a few movies that has hurt his reputation. He's also been in way too many action/adventure movies (bourne series, green zone, ocean series, brothers grimm)

But to use Dogma as one of his best films doesn't help your argument lol. Just my opinion, don't get me wrong.


and yes, best actor. he was the leading role in all those films i named, and he did a damn good job leading them. This is all my opinion, i am not stating that he IS the best actor, because i can never for sure say that.

[DoctorDodge]

Well, Leo's a good actor, but I still believe he's just been lucky when it comes to his choice in movies. After the phenomenal success of Titanic (which came down less to DiCaprio's acting and more to the epic love story meets awesome special effects combo), unlike a lot of other actors, he's gonna have a lot more choice in which films he gets to be in. Matt Damon may not have been in as many good movies, but he's been a bloody great actor in the ones he has been in.

Leo may have been in a lot successful movies, but success has never been a sign of great quality. Even the Departed, which is one of my favourite DiCaprio movies (I've yet to see Inception, bear in mind) pales in comparison to the original, Infernal Affairs. There are few great actors that have as high a percentage of decent films as Leo, but I still believe there's a lot better actors out there than him, even if the only stuff they do is on the telly. One such actor who needs to do more movies is British actor John Simm: discovered him on Life on Mars, and ever since then, I've been looking for anything he's been in. He's the biggest reason why the remake was such a dissapointment, he set the bar way, way too high that very few actors can match it. That's my opinion though, but I still believe that Leo's one of the most successful actors out there, but not one of the best.

[Still Servant]

Thanks Pam! I'll be watching that one right away

Have you by chance ever seen The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing? Editing is probably my favorite aspect of films. This one has been on my list of films to watch as well, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

I've yet to watch The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing. Since my family members know that I edit video as part of my job, I was given 2 copies of it one Christmas.

I'm looking forward to watching it when I get the chance.

I've always been a fan of DiCaprio. I never really understand when people say he's not a good actor. West, I'm going to add a couple other great films to your list. This Boy's Life and What's Eating Gilbert Grape. They show what a great actor Leo was even at a young age.

That being said, I think Matt Damon is the best actor of this generation. He's highly versatile. Doc, if you haven't seen them yet I would recommend Good Will Hunting and the criminally underrated The Talented Mr. Ripley.

[DoctorDodge]

So glad it's not just me then, Still Servant. I've yet to see The Talented Mr Ripley (even though it's got Jack Davenport in it, who's not exactly the best British actor there is, but I'm a fan of sitcom Coupling!), but I've seen Good Will Hunting, and I love that film. Matt Damon does a really great performance there, although Robin Williams is also impressive, too.

[IWasSentWest]

what's eating gilbert grape is a great flick. forgot bout that one

and your argument is valid doc, i will say that if leo has a competitor, it is matt damon. i always seem to forget about some of his roles and how good he was in them.

[Jean]

we should vote the best actor of all times some day

[turtlex]

but what other well known actor, if you include there whole body of work, really compares? every movie he's been in (besides the beach) is usually one of the top movies of the year. you have:

the quick and the dead
romeo + juliet (eh, some liked it lol)
titanic
the man in the iron mask
catch me if you can
gangs of new york
the aviator
blood diamond
the departed
body of lies
revolutionary road
shutter island
inception

those are all outstanding movies IMO, with most of them being blockbuster hits.

my generation, i usually consider that to be 40-45 years old or younger. i just can't think of another actor that, as whole, really competes. he may not have the most talent, but the movies he's in are almost guaranteed to be great. and he's been in a lot of them, which impresses me more. people like daniel day lewis would def. be up near the top, but DDL just isn't in a lot of movies, so i can't really compare the two.

Hey all -

Well, as most of you know, I'm not a big fan of DiCaprio - not at all. And here's the thing.

I can think of a lot of other actors of this generation who are better, in my opinion. Not the least of which is Edward Norton.

And it's funny, but I actually thought DiCaprio was really good in The Beach ( it was the movie that took a header for me towards the end, not his acting ). And I thought he was excellent in Blood Diamond. I recently re-watched that movie and really, he was good.

And now - I'm going to be a little sarcastic here .... you can flame me if you like.

I thought he was horrible in Titanic. Really, really bad. I know we've all talked about that here some place. I didn't like Titanic at all. The Quick And The Dead ... passable only. He isn't given much to do, and doesn't do much with what he was given. The Man In The Iron Mask? Um, that was a horrible movie... he acted with his hair. The Aviator ... overacting, all over the place. It was like he was intimidated by the supporting cast. Gangs of New York and the Departed. Same thing. romeo + juliet , yeah, Claire Danes was excellent. Leo had problems with his mouth, mostly he really couldn't pull off the diction and cadence necessary. It was painful watching him.

Finally, I was able to catch Revolutionary Road and though it was a good movie, I thought he really was stilted and wooden through the whole thing.

I don't think he's that great an actor and he's very hit or miss for me.

[Still Servant]

I hated the Aviator. The Quick and the Dead is hardly a film to base Leo's skills on. The Man In The Iron Mask is not exactly a memorable film.

I think you are being too hard on Leo in The Departed. He has some really good scenes. The same goes for Gangs of New York. I could not disagree more about his performance in Revolutionary Road. He has some very powerful scenes there too.

What about some of his earlier work like What's Eating Gilbert Grape and This Boy's Life? What about his performance in Catch Me if You Can? I just find if funny that some of the films you listed are his least best films.

We may have to agree to disagree about Leo, but I will give you a big hand for at least seeing his films. I can't tell you how many people I know that won't go see a film if it stars an actor they dislike.

[Heather19]

Heather - I've got that one on my to buy list, but haven't seen it yet.

I have always felt that editing was an amazing aspect of filmmaking and have several favorite editors! ( most prominently Thelma Schoonmaker who works so very closely with Martin Scorsese )

Honestly - almost all the technical aspects of filmmaking interest me. Sound Editing and Design is also a fascination of mine ( I think Ben Burtt is a genius ).

One of the coolest documentaries is Hearts of Darkness: A Filmmaker's Apocalypse which follows the making of Apocalypse Now. Amazing stuff, and covers some of the more adventurous and challenging aspects of filmmaking. Not to mention, great behind the scenes footage from the movie, and direct access to Francis Ford Coppola. The film was made with footage supplied by Eleanor Coppola.

I love Sally Menke. She's one of my favorites. You never really hear much about editing when it comes to films, but it's such a critical aspect of it. And I'm adding Hearts of Darkness to my list. I think I'm going to be watching a bunch of filmmaking documentaries in the near future.

I've yet to watch The Cutting Edge: The Magic of Movie Editing. Since my family members know that I edit video as part of my job, I was given 2 copies of it one Christmas.

I'm looking forward to watching it when I get the chance.

You have 2 copies and you haven't watched it yet! I'll be curious to know what you think of it once you see it.

Finally, I was able to catch Revolutionary Road and though it was a good movie, I thought he really was stilted and wooden through the whole thing.

Really? I absolutely loved him in that film. Honestly I actually really like him and think he's a great actor, but this is the film that really stood out for me when it comes to showcasing his ability. I thought it was a very powerful performance.

[IWasSentWest]

i just named flicks that are popular of his. and i completely forgot bout gilbert grape.

and i agree, a lot of people hate on leo.

[turtlex]

Damn, I love talking movies with you guys!!

SS - Yeah, I see Leo's movies. I am, in general, just a person who loves movies, so I see a lot of them. Same as most people here, I think. I don't run out to see DiCaprio movies because of him, but he does work with some amazing people ( Scorsese!! ) and he has his moments. I just wouldn't consider him the defining actor of his generation. Not even close for me. I do agree that he tends to have "moments" in movies, but to me, they're few and far between. I wasn't a fan of Gilbert Grape, though he did well. Not outstanding, at least not to me. Catch Me If You Can ... did he even act in that movie? I recall thinking the entire cast was under-used.

Revolutionary Road - Don't get me wrong. I thought it was a good movie, but I found his acting to actually be a distraction, at times. It was much too wooden for my tastes. It was like he was trying too hard to be controlled in his presentation. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I thought Kate Winslet was awesome, however. I'm not a big fan of hers in general, but she blew me away with her performance, it's all nuance and layers. And I should have posted my thanks, because had Heather not encouraged me to see RR, I'd probably still have it on my "to watch" list. So, thanks go there.

I will concede to being hard on Leo's performances in Gangs and Departed, but I think that's because the rest of the casts were so high caliber, it really made some of his mis-steps stand out.

I think I focus'd on his lesser performances because of the "Best Actor Of His Generation" talk ... I think if you have that many "lesser" performances, then you can't be considered the best actor of any generation. Just my opinion, of course.

Heather - Hearts of Darkness is amazing. Have you seen Apocalypse Now? I think it helps if you've seen Apocalypse Now, to appreciate Hearts of Darkness even more. It truly shows the complexity involved in making a movie.

I am a big fan of documentaries, though, so keep that mind. And documentaries about movies? Well, that's a double win for me.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree about RR and Leo's performance, but I will completely own that I tend to be hypercritical about some actors, so that could and does affect my opinions about performances.

[Heather19]

Pam, I am very happy that you saw the film. I was so worried you weren't ever going to give it a chance. And I'm sad you generally don't like Kate either. She's one of my top actresses. Oh well, we'll just agree to disagree. We can't all be the same

And I have seen Apocalypse Now, but maybe I'll rewatch it before I see the documentary. It's been quite a few years since I last saw it.

[turtlex]

Oh, gosh, Heather ... I take the advice and recommendations of my friends here very seriously. There are so many truly bad movies out there, if one of you all suggest something that you really enjoy - of course I'm going to give it a chance.

To be 100% honest, I think a big part of my problem with Winslet is really because of how awful I thought Titantic was. Her performance included. The whole movie, at times, felt like a gigantic caricature.

I thought she was amazing in Revolutionary Road, really blew me away. Same with Little Children. Another great performance. And she was good in Sense and Sensibility. Aside from that, she's kind of hit and miss with me.

And please, make no mistake - I truly liked Revolutionary Road, sincerely. Definitely worth my time and I appreciate the recommendation.

Looking forward to your thoughts on Hearts of Darkness.

[fernandito]

If you had asked me 10 years ago what I thought of DiCaprio, I would have told you that he's nothing more than teenage girl fodder, someone for them to swoon over. Now though ? I believe he has really come into his own as an actor.

There's a reason why high profile directors like Nolan, and a cinematic legend like Scorsese are so eager to work with him and have him be the cornerstone of their respective films. Shutter Island, Gangs of New York, Inception, The Aviator, The Departed - what do all of these have in common ? They are all juggernauts in terms of production value and they all feature Leo and rely on him to carry the weight of the movie with his versatility and acting prowess.

I don't know if I'd label him 'the best of' anything yet, but I certainly feel that he is a wonderful actor capable and worthy of being the centerpiece of any film.

[turtlex]

You make a good point, Feev, regarding the directors who are seeking him out ...

... and again, this is just me, but when I think of those films - I don't think of DiCaprio. I think of the directing, and the production values, and the script, and I don't think he carries them. I think all those things carry him!

That being said ... I do see him improving and as I'd said, I thought he was really good in Blood Diamond ( fake accent and everything, which can truly sink some actors ).