Oh, okay. Well, I'm all about being ridiculous.
Oh, okay. Well, I'm all about being ridiculous.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
Remember, Remember, The Fifth of November, The Gunpowder, Treason, and Plot.
So it IS about topping it.Originally Posted by Cozener
That's your whole point here, right? You know that it is, and you don't like it. Like it or not, that's Hollywood. Worse, any actor willing to take the risk would be, practically by definition, one that the studio would not be willing to risk a budget on. It is quite a situation, alright.
I would disagree vehemently with that statement.
Noooooo!
I don't mean to be pointed, I just think that the idea that only ONE person can play a particular role is outlandish and frankly, it makes me think that you're overly sentimental about this particular actor and his final role. (yes I know about the other movie but other actors had to step in and finish it...hey...one of them being Johnny Depp!)Oh, okay. Well, I'm all about being ridiculous.
No...it isn't. How are you getting that? If the next performance tops Ledger's thats ok but ideally, it would be best to simply match it...to try and make the performance as much like Ledger's as possible but NOT out of respect for Ledger as much as a respect for the continuity of the character. If it isn't quite as good or it isn't exactly the same but still serviceable thats just fine by me too. As long as it doesn't suck...and I seriously doubt that Nolan would allow that...I'm ok with someone else playing the Joker if the original intent was to continue a Joker story line. Now that Ledger's dead they have to scrap the whole arc? That just seems crazy to me.So it IS about topping it.
Again, no...it isn't my point. And I'm not sure what you mean. Are you saying that the next actor who plays the part will have the goal of doing a better Joker than Ledger whether I approve of them coming at the role with that attitude or not? Are you saying I didn't like Ledger's performance and I think someone needs to come along and show us just how the Joker needs to be played? What exactly do I know here?That's your whole point here, right? You know that it is, and you don't like it. Like it or not, that's Hollywood.
Now, that said, initially I didn't take to this Joker the same way many of you did but the reason for that was because I didn't see what the model of this Joker was (the graphic novel Arkham Asylum's Joker & The Dark Knight comic series) I was mired down in a more comicbook style Joker. But after my second viewing of TDK I was totally onboard because Ledger's Joker fits Nolan's Gotham to a T. For some reason, I didn't appreciate that at first AND I'd read Arkham Asylum years ago so I'm not sure why I didn't make that connection. So don't think this is about me hating on Ledger or his Joker. Hell, I voted for him to be the BMCOAT.
Anyway, an actor that did play this part would have to be a very well respected and well known actor, IMO, to avoid...or at least afford...the backlash that they MIGHT get if they assumed that role. Personally, I wouldn't hold it against any actor that took up this mantle. Would you? If so, why?
Without a doubt I am overly sentimental about Heath, but not about the Joker.
His performance as the Joker is what it is, and time alone will prove that.
And I would argue, long and hard over this :I'm sure thousands of people can play a role, but pretty much, they'd suck at it.I just think that the idea that only ONE person can play a particular role is outlandish.
And really, tell me who else could have played... say, Michael Corleone, and done it as good as Pacino.
Some roles were simply made by the actor who played them... and then they should be left well enough alone.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that point because I don't see any role, including Michael Corleone or anyone else you'd care to name, as being exclusive to one actor. Is it an ideal situation? No. I'd much prefer to see Ledger back as the Joker. But this isn't possible. But instead of changing the original plan with this story arc or ending the story where it is I'd rather see them go ahead with a new actor. (and it still boggles me that someone could think that no one else in the entire world could play that role well) Sure, things might be just fine with a redone story...even great. But it might not be. Even Nolan himself gave serious thought to just walking away from it rather than change things around to compensate for the loss of Ledger.
Alright, here we go ... (rolls up sleeves)
While it's true that Ledger made the character of the Joker his own, saying that no one else should play the Joker just doesn't seem right to me. As someone else mentioned, it's not about topping Ledger, but by doing justice to the persona/character of the Joker the way Ledger did. Nolan and Micheal Caine have both given strong hints that the Joker was/is to be an integral part of Batman 3, and on those grounds alone, the Joker needs to be recast. The relentless mind games and sheer chaos that Joker put the citizens of Gotham through had such an impact that it would be ludicrous to simply 'kill' him off for the third film. It would be unfair for Nolan to have to radically alter his original version ... I'm sure it's not what Heath would have wanted. There is an ocean of talent out there, I'm sure there is at least one actor that can provide for the character the way Ledger did.
On a side note - I remain convinced that the reason Nolan cast Joseph Gordon Levitt in his new movie Inception is a sort of try-out to see if he's ready to take on a such a demanding role as is the Jokers. Mark my words
I'm not really opposed to someone else portraying the joker. With that said I feel bad for the actor who inevitably is gonna' be compared to Ledger, but I guess they'll no that going in. And I can't think of a single actor who can pull the role off with the charm and intensity of Ledger, personally. This isn't saying it shouldn't be done, but I really think whoever takes it on now has some big shoes to fill. The best advice they can be given...ignore what Heath has done as much as possible and try to make the character their own. If they TRY to be like Ledger's joker they will fail miserably. Honestly I think a complete unknown should be used for it if anyone.
I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd have guessed as much. Ideally they'll find an actor who didn't even see the dark Knight, IMO.
I'm going to step quietly away from this now, because as Coz said - we're going to have to agree to disagree. I just think some things should be left well enough alone.
However, I would like to say ... mark my words - You'll wish they never attempted to re-cast the Joker when it's Keanu Reeves or Ryan Reynolds attemping, and ruining, the next Batman pic.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
I would prefer someone else to play Joker, instead of killing the character. Ledger's Joker is awesome. But, Joker, himself is a legend for me. He was standing there before Heath Ledger, so he shall exist after him.
However, I would like to say ... mark my words - You'll wish they never attempted to re-cast the Joker when it's Keanu Reeves or Ryan Reynolds attemping, and ruining, the next Batman pic.fucking love it!!!!
This won't happen if Nolan is at the helm of the third film. Nolan chooses actors that he deems worthy of the roles ... I remember there was a similiar angry outcry from Bat-fanboys (myself included) when it was announced that Ledger would be taking the reins of the Joker, and look how that turned out.However, I would like to say ... mark my words - You'll wish they never attempted to re-cast the Joker when it's Keanu Reeves or Ryan Reynolds attemping, and ruining, the next Batman pic.
This won't happen if Nolan is at the helm of the third film. Nolan chooses actors that he deems worthy of the roles ... I remember there was a similiar angry outcry from Bat-fanboys (myself included) when it was announced that Ledger would be taking the reins of the Joker, and look how that turned out.However, I would like to say ... mark my words - You'll wish they never attempted to re-cast the Joker when it's Keanu Reeves or Ryan Reynolds attemping, and ruining, the next Batman pic.For your sake, and everyone else here, I hope you're right.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
Maybe as the Joker's Dad !
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
Maybe they should just bring back Jack Nicholson...
Seriously, on the idea that the next actor who plays the Joker should not let Ledger's performance influence him. I wonder how much of Nolan's direction we saw in Ledger's performance. Was Ledger's Joker more Nolan's Joker than it was Ledger's? If that's the case, the next Joker might end up acting a lot like Ledger's Joker whether that actor wants him to or not. Nolan might not give the guy much room to do his own thing.
And good luck finding an actor that didn't see TDK
If someone did try to emulate Ledger and it turned out to be anything other than a complete miserable failure, then, IMO, that would qualify as an incredible acting feat in its own right. So, to be accepted and applauded, the next guy will either have to pull off acting even greater than Heath's, or else pull off acting even greater than Heath's. Get it?
Michael Caine
http://answers.yahoo.com -- Why do so many people incorrectly spell Michael as "Micheal"?
Yeah...I just don't agree.
Yep...that's pretty much how I see it.
The WOAHker.
The Man In Black Fled Across The Desert...
...And The Gunslinger Followed.
“I’m always on the Batman rule, sir.” - Kate Kane / Detective Comics 857
"It is the story, not he who tells it." Except to us collectors who have to put limits somewhere. - jhanic
What I seem to be seeing here is people thinking that Ledger was the best actor ever for the Joker. This isn't the case. Seriously, you might think it relys A LOT on the Actor, but it doesn't. As long as Nolan finds a good enough impersonist, it isn't hard to do the Jokers make-up, and the screen writers and Nolan just have to give extra help into making a new Joker. Given enough time, some of us could probably do it. It's better than forgetting about the third film/ recasting. The Joker doesn't even need a big role. Have him as a background Villain, and have Zachary Quinto as The Riddler being the main Villain
2:45 am- 11th February 2008- I Finished The Dark Tower
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