The DC Film Universe

[webstar1000]

Whose genius idea is this? Do they really think it's going to make a difference in people wanting to see it if they already didn't want to after seeing the posters and trailers and TV spots and loads of cast interviews? Let's be real, the true audience for the film is people who love the Harley character, and those people are already going to see it regardless. This whole thing is like renaming Titanic to "Titanic: The Movie About the Sinking Ship."

Ehh I don't think they're wrong for renaming it. They shouldn't have ever called it "Birds of Prey". It's not a Birds of Prey movie, it's a Harley Quinn movie that happens to have a version of the Birds of Prey kinda in it. This has been done before to some effect. Edge of Tomorrow got a mid run rename to "Live, Die, Repeat" which actually worked. Switching the name from Birds of Prey to Harley Quinn: Birds of Prey kinda changes the understanding of what the movie is at a glance.

To be completely honest the problem this movie is facing in the box office is mostly due to it's R rating. The R rating didn't really add much to the movie, but drastically limited the audience that could actually go see it. Plus they didn't commit to the R rating as hard as a movie like Deadpool does, so the R rating wasn't even really necessary. They also marketed it like a PG-13 movie and not an R movie. The movie has honestly reviewed pretty well. I just got done listening to the /Filmcast review of it, and going in I was sure they'd hate it, but they surprised me and generally enjoyed the movie. Which has been my experience with the reviews I've seen. Outlets I thought would hate it, actually enjoyed it / had a lot of fun with it. I'll be interested to see what next weekend looks like.

I am also interested Dan in this weekends numbers. I predict a 50-60% fall. Should be 18-20mil range... not really a Valentines movie which may hurt it as well.

I called it. Just under 18 mil and a 50% decline.... people just don’t care about Harley Quinn.


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I'll give you that it's closer to your low end than my guess, but it still wasn't a 50% drop. 48% according to rotten tomatoes. It still fell number 2 this weekend. Probably would've been much higher, but Sonic significantly out performed what anyone thought it was going to do. Plus it should have a higher than normal Monday, because of Presidents Day, which will help it's box office totals.

All this said I don't think this movie is a flop or failure by any means. Sure it didn't do gang busters, but it reviewed well for DC and will surely break even, and then some when you get into home video sales. At the end of the day though it reviewing well is what DC needed from this movie, and they got that. We'll definitely see another Harley Quinn movie. Hopefully they'll do a better job marketing it. They either need to lean into the 'R' rating much more (like Deadpool) or they need to back off and make it PG-13.

I’m willing to bet we won’t get another Quinn movie.....


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[DanHocker]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

I don’t hope it comes true. I LOVE that comic movies are getting made but yes I hated this. Either way I don’t want it to fail. I was just pointing out my thoughts were correct. A comic movie that makes the money this has... is done. I mean look at some other DC properties... they made FAR more than this and are done.


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Are they though? They're filming Suicide Squad 2 now. Which is by far the worst movie they made. The one's they've ended are the "Snyder" stuff. They're trying real hard to distance themselves from the train wreck that was Justice League. I don't think they've actively canceled anything that was publicly announced except for the Cyborg movie. They had never even announced a 2nd Justice League, that was just assumed.

[webstar1000]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

I don’t hope it comes true. I LOVE that comic movies are getting made but yes I hated this. Either way I don’t want it to fail. I was just pointing out my thoughts were correct. A comic movie that makes the money this has... is done. I mean look at some other DC properties... they made FAR more than this and are done.


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Are they though? They're filming Suicide Squad 2 now. Which is by far the worst movie they made. The one's they've ended are the "Snyder" stuff. They're trying real hard to distance themselves from the train wreck that was Justice League. I don't think they've actively canceled anything that was publicly announced except for the Cyborg movie. They had never even announced a 2nd Justice League, that was just assumed.

I was referring to Justice movies. I didn’t hate it either to be honest or Batman v Superman. Did you like them? I do think it could have been so much better but I did enjoy them


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[DanHocker]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

I don’t hope it comes true. I LOVE that comic movies are getting made but yes I hated this. Either way I don’t want it to fail. I was just pointing out my thoughts were correct. A comic movie that makes the money this has... is done. I mean look at some other DC properties... they made FAR more than this and are done.


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Are they though? They're filming Suicide Squad 2 now. Which is by far the worst movie they made. The one's they've ended are the "Snyder" stuff. They're trying real hard to distance themselves from the train wreck that was Justice League. I don't think they've actively canceled anything that was publicly announced except for the Cyborg movie. They had never even announced a 2nd Justice League, that was just assumed.

I was referring to Justice movies. I didn’t hate it either to be honest or Batman v Superman. Did you like them? I do think it could have been so much better but I did enjoy them


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I like Man of Steel and Batman V. Superman. Justice League stunk of studio interference. I think had they left it with whatever Snyder had made it would've been a better movie. But all the reshoots and what not left the movie a bit of a mess, structurally, tonally, and visually. My understanding "Justice League" wise though is that they didn't actually have another Justice League on the books / schedule (officially). They kinda put everything in that department on hold to do what they should've done in the first place (establish the individual characters). All that said I still think we'll get another Harley Quinn movie. I think as long as the movie turns a profit, the good reviews will be enough. Especially since these Harley Quinn movies are Margot Robbie's pet project. My understanding is that she's been heavily involved in the behind the scenes production of the movie.

[mae]

I’m willing to bet we won’t get another Quinn movie.....

She's already coming back in The Suicide Squad and that Gotham City Sirens movie with her, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy has been in the works for a while. We'll see Catwoman next year in The Batman as well. Should be lots of fun!

[webstar1000]

I’m willing to bet we won’t get another Quinn movie.....

She's already coming back in The Suicide Squad and that Gotham City Sirens movie with her, Catwoman, and Poison Ivy has been in the works for a while. We'll see Catwoman next year in The Batman as well. Should be lots of fun!

I meant another stand alone movie.


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[mae]

That's Gotham City Sirens. I bet we'll see it in the next 2-3 years.

[DanHocker]

That's Gotham City Sirens. I bet we'll see it in the next 2-3 years.

Correct. Movie 2 of the "Harley Quinn trilogy" is Gotham City Sirens, which I'm guessing will probably get a rename to Harely Quinn: Gotham City Sirens, or something like that. I believe Gotham City Sirens began pre-production about just after Birds of Prey wrapped primary production. Also there was a title floating around for the third movie, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was. I wouldn't be surprised to find out Margot Robbie got them to give her 3 Harley Quinn movies in exchange for coming back for more Suicide Squad.

[webstar1000]

That's Gotham City Sirens. I bet we'll see it in the next 2-3 years.

You think they will go through with another one honestly after such dismal numbers/performance? I mean that question honestly.


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[DanHocker]

That's Gotham City Sirens. I bet we'll see it in the next 2-3 years.

You think they will go through with another one honestly after such dismal numbers/performance? I mean that question honestly.


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I certainly do. This movie is going to make money. Not loads of money, but it'll turn a profit. My guess is they'll retool what they were planning for Gotham City Sirens, maybe the way they market the movie, and possibly the rating, but definitely the title. Now obviously this could all change depending on what happens with the next couple of DC movies. Obviously if they bomb DC might rethink everything they're doing, but given the slate for the next 2 years I don't think they're going to bomb. Wonder Woman 1984, The Batman, The Suicide Squad, and Black Adam.

The only one I'm actually skeptical of is Black Adam, but The Rock is the lead, and he tends to be able to put butts in seats no matter how good or bad the movie is. If The Suicide Squad had been directed by anyone other than James Gunn I'd be concerned there, but Gunn and Suicide Squad seem like a match made in heavan.

[webstar1000]

That's Gotham City Sirens. I bet we'll see it in the next 2-3 years.

You think they will go through with another one honestly after such dismal numbers/performance? I mean that question honestly.


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I certainly do. This movie is going to make money. Not loads of money, but it'll turn a profit. My guess is they'll retool what they were planning for Gotham City Sirens, maybe the way they market the movie, and possibly the rating, but definitely the title. Now obviously this could all change depending on what happens with the next couple of DC movies. Obviously if they bomb DC might rethink everything they're doing, but given the slate for the next 2 years I don't think they're going to bomb. Wonder Woman 1984, The Batman, The Suicide Squad, and Black Adam.

The only one I'm actually skeptical of is Black Adam, but The Rock is the lead, and he tends to be able to put butts in seats no matter how good or bad the movie is. If The Suicide Squad had been directed by anyone other than James Gunn I'd be concerned there, but Gunn and Suicide Squad seem like a match made in heavan.

I agree. Suicide is gonna be good. Gunn will make sure of it. I have very high hopes for Batman to. I really wish we could get another superman..... not sure why they are dragging their ass on that. Wonder Woman will be good and your right about that Rock. Dc has some nice properties coming out for sure. I guess my thoughts is that Birds will be the lowest of the ones mentioned. And I think far lower too thus they may abandon any more. Time will tell


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[DanHocker]

That's Gotham City Sirens. I bet we'll see it in the next 2-3 years.

You think they will go through with another one honestly after such dismal numbers/performance? I mean that question honestly.


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I certainly do. This movie is going to make money. Not loads of money, but it'll turn a profit. My guess is they'll retool what they were planning for Gotham City Sirens, maybe the way they market the movie, and possibly the rating, but definitely the title. Now obviously this could all change depending on what happens with the next couple of DC movies. Obviously if they bomb DC might rethink everything they're doing, but given the slate for the next 2 years I don't think they're going to bomb. Wonder Woman 1984, The Batman, The Suicide Squad, and Black Adam.

The only one I'm actually skeptical of is Black Adam, but The Rock is the lead, and he tends to be able to put butts in seats no matter how good or bad the movie is. If The Suicide Squad had been directed by anyone other than James Gunn I'd be concerned there, but Gunn and Suicide Squad seem like a match made in heavan.

I agree. Suicide is gonna be good. Gunn will make sure of it. I have very high hopes for Batman to. I really wish we could get another superman..... not sure why they are dragging their ass on that. Wonder Woman will be good and your right about that Rock. Dc has some nice properties coming out for sure. I guess my thoughts is that Birds will be the lowest of the ones mentioned. And I think far lower too thus they may abandon any more. Time will tell


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It's possible. But it's not always about the box office. In this case the money they make from merchandising might be enough to offset the box office. Plus we don't know what kind of deal they have worked out. It's very possible WB is locked into a 3 picture deal with Margot Robbie. I was reading an article earlier that she had 3 options for Harley movies and she chose to do Birds of Prey first over Gotham City Sirens so they could highlight lesser known characters and as of January she was still pushing forward with Ghotham City Sirens. So we'll see, but in this instance I think the positive reviews will be enough to keep the project alive. Had it been trashed by critics it'd be a completely different story.

[Hunchback Jack]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

[mae]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Well, Box Office Mojo says the budget was $84.5M: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3640886785/

[webstar1000]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Agreed Peter and they marketed the hell out of this.

[DanHocker]

Generally speaking DC and Marvel movies made "in house" make their money back before the movies are even released. Because of merchandising and what not. This is partially why I think the R rating was a mistake on this one.

(I say "in house" because FOX and Sony didn't have the merchandising rights for their characters, it's why there was a severe lack of X-Men toys for years)

[Joe315]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Well, Box Office Mojo says the budget was $84.5M: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3640886785/

That probably excludes marketing. Variety says break even is at $250 million with a high of $400 million.

https://variety.com/2020/film/box-of...ts-1203498018/

[Hunchback Jack]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Well, Box Office Mojo says the budget was $84.5M: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3640886785/

Fair enough. The source I read stated “between $82 and $100 million”, so $84.5 fits. It still doesn’t account for the marketing budget, though. The $300 million break even figure I gave might be an over estimate - it might only be $250 million. The article I got the figure from was somewhat negatively slanted.

Either way, $145 million is below breakeven, and below double the production budget.

I don’t care either way; I have no dog in this race. But I can understand why people would be calling it a flop.

[Hunchback Jack]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Agreed Peter and they marketed the hell out of this.

Yup. Rule of thumb for tent pole movies is that marketing budget is 1 to 1.5 times production budget.

HBJ

[fernandito]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Well, Box Office Mojo says the budget was $84.5M: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3640886785/

$84m doesn't cover Marketing costs, which for a franchise-starter hopeful is probably somewhere in the $20-$30 million region. Also the Studios only get back half of what a film makes in domestic theaters, the other half goes to the theaters/distributors. In overseas the studio typically only gets around %30 of the cut. So yeah, $300 million to break even sounds about right.

Also, I'm catching this tonight with my girl so I'll post my thoughts in here tomorrow. Going in with low expectations, hopefully I come out liking it!

[DanHocker]

The movie has already made over $145M worldwide so already pretty much twice its budget, I don't see how that can be considered a flop yet people keep saying it, hoping it comes true.

Production budget was close to 100 million. Marketing budget was almost twice that - it needs to make $300 million to break even.

HBJ

Well, Box Office Mojo says the budget was $84.5M: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3640886785/

I don’t care either way; I have no dog in this race. But I can understand why people would be calling it a flop.

I don't know if anyone else listens to the /filmcast podcast, but they made a good point about this movie. In that Ford v Ferrari had a similar budget, similar amount of market, and a similar opening weekend, but was widely considered a success. So what the real false narritive here, that Ford v Ferrari was a success or that Birds of Prey was a failure.

I guess it's just a "expectations" thing. Oscar movie vs comic book movie.

[fernandito]

Saw it yesterday, really liked it! Zany, empowering, and the confident devil may care attitude makes it a treat to watch.

[webstar1000]

Saw it yesterday, really liked it! Zany, empowering, and the confident devil may care attitude makes it a treat to watch.

[mae]

Saw it yesterday, really liked it! Zany, empowering, and the confident devil may care attitude makes it a treat to watch.

Glad you liked it! I thought it was hilarious, colorful, cartoony (in a good way, since it's Harley), and the fights were exhilarating, especially the whole police station sequence.

[mae]

Good and fun analysis as always: