A Clockwork Orange *spoilers for the book and movie*
This thread is for discussion, comparison, and general love of all things A Clockwork Orange be it film or book. It's primary purpose is as a comparison of the two, but a little general love of it won't be frowned upon too much my droogs.
So to begin: What variances do you see in the morality represented by the two?
I'm sure this is going to be Sarah's new favorite thread!
I'll answer your question later on in the day, sir.
Yes, I thought about putting Sarah's name in the thread title.
{sneak}Mark spoilers? Put spoiler warning in the title? My whole post is a spoiler... Just use one giant spoiler tag?{/sneak}
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I'll add spoilers to the title. I'm glad you thought of that.
and I will add that radioactive sign... now everything is perfect!
Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)
bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Jean!
Viddy well, oh my brothers, viddy well.
I love the ending of the movie and find the final chapter of the book to be a cop out. We have been introduced to a youth, Alex, who is in love with ultraviolence and all things associated with it. His greatest joy in life is to bring pain and suffering to others. We have also been introduced to his droogs, who are enamored of ultraviolence and all things associated with it, but who do not appear to be as completely immersed in it as our humble narrator. In the final chapter of the book, we are presented with an older Alex who is now rethinking his ways and finding them childish. He runs into Pete, who has abandoned the old gang ways and has integrated into proper society. He (Alex) has begun to carry around a picture of a baby in his wallet and to have feelings/desires to settle down, get married, have a baby even.
Bullshit. I don’t buy it. Alex is a sociopath for the entire novel – even when he has been twisted by the Ludovico treatment he still wishes to be the sociopath that he was. Consequently, I don’t buy for one second that just because he reaches 21 he suddenly realizes that violence is childish and he should get a shave and a haircut and a house and a wife. I buy it with Pete. I’ll even buy it with Dim and Georgie (or would, if Georgie lived). But not for one second do I believe that Alex has begun a 180° change. That boy was too much of a sociopath to start getting mushy over babies with milk on their faces. I see grown up Alex as cultivating new ways to get what he wants or to torture others. Yes, yes. I see what Burgess was doing and saying – or trying to do and say – but I don’t agree with it for this character.
I was supremely disappointed when I first got my hands on a copy of the British release of the novel. I’d been reading the American version, which ends without the final chapter to correspond to the film, and was quite surprised to see everything so glibly excused as “childhood’s folly” because children are like clockwork oranges.
Great topic, Brice! There is just so much in this novel (and film) to love: the concepts of nature verses nurture, governmental thought control, and the power language and music to name a few.
Appy polly loggies for the vehemence, but the final chapter tolchocks me in the gulliver every time I read it.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
I'll expound a little more later on, but I don't really think Alex is a true sociopath. Although to be honest I don't consider sociopathy a real psychological disorder any way.
love the movie, but i've never been able to read the damn book. I think, at this point, I've seen the movie too often to put up with reading the book, which honestly just annoys me every time I try to read it.
A true firewasp ninja would never wear such a ridiculous sweater.
There's logic in nonsense.
Give me all the bacon and eggs you have.
Interesing. I think you should start a discussing that.Originally Posted by Brice
(seriously, though.)
A true firewasp ninja would never wear such a ridiculous sweater.
There's logic in nonsense.
Give me all the bacon and eggs you have.
It's a shame. IMO the book is much better in some ways.
Interesing. I think you should start a discussing that.
(seriously, though.)
Maybe I will.Or a general psychology thread where I can point out that 95% of it is bullshit.
I have to admit I'm a sucker for the ending of the novel and the message it conveys - it's never too late to rethink your ways and ultimately better ones self.
(Cheesy , I know)
Sorry for using that word. I used it because it would convey what what you just described succinctly and with little doubt as to what I meant about the character. Carry on.Interesing. I think you should start a discussing that.
(seriously, though.)
Maybe I will.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
Hey guys, I've recently been turned on to Stanley K. and I now have this movie in my possession. I haven't watched it yet, but its on the radar. Part of the reason I wanted to see it was because of Brice and Woofer, two members whom I really respect. I knew you guys loved it as well as Bergy whom I don't know well but seems like a smart cat too.
Excellent! I hope you enjoy it.
I do plan on reading the book, because I guess I will like it. That said, I really disliked the movie and would probably avoid it in the future.
I'm sorry to spoil the love-fest of Kubrick though...He just isn't all that, imo.
Hey Ryan. You've been known to listen to my suggestions a time or two as well and I have nothing but good things to say about the film. I think it's a spectacular film that gets better with repeated viewings. Probably my only "problem" with it is that since I first saw it I have never been able to see Malcolm McDowell as anything other than Alex, but I suppose that's just a testament to how powerful he is in the role.
I have yet to read the book, but this thread has definitely kindled my interest in doing so and I have added it to my list of books to buy.
That makes me want to watch it even more Jayson. I've just been putting it off because its not exactly a "feel good" movie and things have been a little difficult for me personally here the past few days. I hope to watch by the end of the week and look forward to some good movie discussion.
Hope things turn around for you soon Ryan. You could always watch "Dr. Strangelove" as well if you are on a Kubrick kick. If that doesn't make you laugh, your sense of humor is broken.That makes me want to watch it even more Jayson. I've just been putting it off because its not exactly a "feel good" movie and things have been a little difficult for me personally here the past few days. I hope to watch by the end of the week and look forward to some good movie discussion.
And if it's broken, you'll have to answer to the Coca-Cola company.Hope things turn around for you soon Ryan. You could always watch "Dr. Strangelove" as well if you are on a Kubrick kick. If that doesn't make you laugh, your sense of humor is broken.That makes me want to watch it even more Jayson. I've just been putting it off because its not exactly a "feel good" movie and things have been a little difficult for me personally here the past few days. I hope to watch by the end of the week and look forward to some good movie discussion.
It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
A whole lot more than riches and muscle.
The hands of the many must join as one.
And together we'll cross the river.
Puscifer, "The Humbling River"
Just finished the movie. Maybe because I'm a child of modernity (unfortunately), I didn't find it too shocking. I'm going to think about it some more before I post anything more in depth, but my initial reaction is a pleasant one. I really enjoyed it, but I could see how the Stanley K. enthusiast might find it dragging at points. I watched 2001 about a week ago and there's more dialog in the first five minutes of Clockwork than that whole movie (unless you count the apes).
Anyways, thanks for the recommendation guys. I really enjoyed it.
Lets talk about some specifics.
I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it, Ryan.Now, you should get the book. Matter of fact if you're still wanting to come for a visit next month you can have mine (provided I can find it Saturday when I go to my shed).
And yeah, it's not so shocking now (not much in film is anymore), but as a product of it's time it was rather controversial from what I understand. In that context I can see why.
I didn't even know it was a book. ooops. I love the movie though.
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