Insomnia - Let's Discuss! *SPOILERS*

[lowdown]

it was perfect king book ...........good but kinda slow at first ...wich didn't bother me ......i like good character development anyway ....but with the overt DT connection....i would have dropped my jaw if i would have read this book before SOS
but ....i got a question ....was ed deepaneu little girl the same one from the 1999 new york dark tower.....i cant remember the ladies name....but i know she was niece to the good deepaneu?????????????.....also confused about that connection too....KIng is the master of trickery and smoke and mirrors ....but thats part of my love for his work....

if ka/destiny is a wheel (they mention that allot in this book)then how can't we see Roland again ...this reaffirms my belief KING will have to bring back somehow

[John_and_Yoko]

Okay, question time:

With what point in The Dark Tower series timeline does Insomnia correspond?

I ask because although the latter was published in 1994 and presumably takes place at a similar point in time (certainly it'd be after 1985, with the events of IT in the past), the one time it mentions Roland it says "...in a desert that was the apotheosis of all deserts, a man named Roland turned over in his bedroll and slept easily once again beneath the alien constellations."

The "apotheosis of all deserts" is of course the Mohaine Desert, which Roland starts out in at the beginning of The Gunslinger. What's more, the wording seems to suggest it's referring to Chapter 1, "The Gunslinger," before Roland has even met Jake yet (and presumably in the "present" time, after Roland has left Tull and Brown behind, in pursuit of the man in black).

Does that mean that Insomnia can be thought of as a "sort-of" prequel to The Dark Tower series? Of course it wouldn't do to read it for the first time BEFORE the series, any more than it would do to read The Magician's Nephew before The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

But does that make sense? It would certainly seem to justify Patrick Danville's entry into the series at the end of the last volume--the boy's there at the beginning and the end of Roland's journey. Might that even suggest why the time loop starts specifically where it does, and not further back? Might it have something to do with Patrick Danville? (Or is it just a coincidence?)

Thoughts?

[Seneschal]

.

Does that mean that Insomnia can be thought of as a "sort-of" prequel to The Dark Tower series?

i would say this is a fair assumption, with the exception that you take "timelines" with a grain of salt within the DT universe. but generally, these events seem to take place on a level of the Tower that coincides with a time in Roland's world somewhere after Little Sisters of Eluria but right before The Gunslinger.

It could also be argued that the "when" of Insomnia is sort of independent to that actual cameo of Roland in the desert. Essentially that when Danville was saved through the events in the book, he was such an important character that the effect acted like a shockwave transcending all times and all worlds. so it would sort of suggest that this is where Insomnia first "intersects" with Roland and his quest. so the word "prequel" is a little misleading.

Might that even suggest why the time loop starts specifically where it does, and not further back? Might it have something to do with Patrick Danville? (Or is it just a coincidence?)

this is a much more interesting possibility, and I had never even thought of that connection. the time loop would have to start after danville being saved, because it is completely out of Roland's ability/knowledge/control to save him at that point. very cool idea, i like that a lot. as for coincidence...hard to say. i suspect not actually. and if it wasn't, that is some really nice tale-spinning and i do not doubt for a second King's ability in that regard.

in general i liked the book though it was as many point out slow to start. I have no complaints because I am a DT fan and can see all the connections. i wonder though, what the hell do all the non DT stephen king fans think about a book like this?

think about it like this. say you never read the DT, not a single book. it is possible that you have very little knowledge of the true nature of the Crimson King, who Patrick Danville will become, and who this guy Roland is. so essentially, you read this book and it would appear that although SOMETHING was resolved you have absolutely no idea what it was. a boy was saved and some red-fish thing called the crimson king was ultimately defeated, but why would you care? you really wouldn't, and i could totally see people being disappointed in this book if they were not DT fans. the ending to someone like that would appear to be either extremely vague or just entirely too related to some other story that they know nothing about.

[mae]

in general i liked the book though it was as many point out slow to start. I have no complaints because I am a DT fan and can see all the connections. i wonder though, what the hell do all the non DT stephen king fans think about a book like this?

think about it like this. say you never read the DT, not a single book. it is possible that you have very little knowledge of the true nature of the Crimson King, who Patrick Danville will become, and who this guy Roland is. so essentially, you read this book and it would appear that although SOMETHING was resolved you have absolutely no idea what it was. a boy was saved and some red-fish thing called the crimson king was ultimately defeated, but why would you care? you really wouldn't, and i could totally see people being disappointed in this book if they were not DT fans. the ending to someone like that would appear to be either extremely vague or just entirely too related to some other story that they know nothing about.

It might've been vague, but I loved the book, and I never read a single DT book prior to that, didn't even know about it. Insomnia was one of my first King books in fact. I loved the story, the pacing, the characters. I should re-read it soon now that I've read DT.

[Darkthoughts]

I loved the story, the pacing, the characters.

Same here

[Kidd Ikarus]

I finally manned up and read Insomnia and I gott say I loved every minute of it. I'm not a big reader . . . In fact, reading the dark tower series in 2 months was probably the greatest 'reading' achievement I've ever had. But I finished this book in 3 days, so that's good for me. I understood most of it, excluding the ties to 'It', which I am planning to read next. The only single thin I didn't understand was 'the green man'. But after I finished, I came to a similiar conclusion that DarkThoughts came up with a couple of years and a couple of pages ago. The only thing I could think of that it was a ' deus ex machina' and to tell the truth, after reading ths thread, I was happy to see someone else thought so too. But over all . . . Fantastic book. I loved it. And I was also happy to see other members got goosebumps when the more significant connections to roland and the dark tower were made that I did.

[Kidd Ikarus]

I lied. There's were 2 things I didn't understand. The Greenman and Old Dorrance. I read on wikipedia, where it was stated that the voice that told ralph, clotho and lachesis during their bargain 'It may be so' could have been either Maturin or Gan. This didn't confuse me at all. Almost immediately I assumed that it was Gan's voice. However, now having a day to think about it, and excluding the 'Greenman' conspiracy . . . Maybe Dorrance was Maturin . . . Or . . . Maybe Dorrance was King? Hahaha. I don't know its late, and my mind tends to venture off at this particular time . . . Anyway . . . Maybe food for thought to those here that are not only more intelligent than I am, but more well versed in the works of Sai King.

[Seneschal]

I lied. There's were 2 things I didn't understand. The Greenman and Old Dorrance. I read on wikipedia, where it was stated that the voice that told ralph, clotho and lachesis during their bargain 'It may be so' could have been either Maturin or Gan. This didn't confuse me at all. Almost immediately I assumed that it was Gan's voice. However, now having a day to think about it, and excluding the 'Greenman' conspiracy . . . Maybe Dorrance was Maturin . . . Or . . . Maybe Dorrance was King? Hahaha. I don't know its late, and my mind tends to venture off at this particular time . . . Anyway . . . Maybe food for thought to those here that are not only more intelligent than I am, but more well versed in the works of Sai King.

my take on this subject is that King laces something he calls "the touch" among many of his characters, particularly in The Dark Tower. It is usually a term used to describe psychic and/or mental powers that others may not necessarily have. So I believe that Dorrance has a variant of the Touch, though maybe in that world they don't call it that ("the touch" seems to be a Roland term). Ralph and Lois must elevate themselves in order to see these levels, but Old Dorr generally can just see them because of his ability. It is why he appears strange to most people. It is also why he knows he is not part of the story and basically can do nothing to help the main characters.

[Kidd Ikarus]

I don't agree with that. I know what the touch is and if I think anyone had it, it was Ralph and Lois. Especially when they began to read peoples thoughts and more through their auras. Dorrance was something completely different. His aura was a spectrum of light and at one point describe like shining a light through a diamond or diamonds I think . . . But he was the only character in the book who had this quality.

[Kidd Ikarus]

After finishing Insomnia, I started reading It. Almost done . . . At about page 800. But in "It" I read that the town of Derry is named for the County Derry in Ireland. This is especially cool to me, because my ancestors are from County Derry in Ireland. My last name is Kane. My aunt who is our family historian, found out that we were "O'Kane" before we immigrated to America. Somewhere in between, we dropped the "O" and became just Kane. But when I read this I got really excited. Its so cool!

EDIT: and I just thought of another cool coincidence, after my stupid one-track mind settled down. My grandmother's maiden name is "King". Although her family originated in southern Ireland.

[Dan]

Just finished Insomnia. Wow, I loved it! In my favorite list for sure. I think I will read IT next.

[John_Kenton]

I used to think that Insomnia was a very important point in the whole Dark Tower development. I think I read somewhere (was it in that WC Stroby interview?) that King got stuck with the first draft. My theory is that he "saved" the book, made it work by linking it to the DT universe, possibly some time around 1992 or 1993... I'm not sure whether he planned to link other works to DT before that. What's your opinion on that?

[mystima]

I liked many aspects of this book, but the most memorable in my opinion is when he is trying to get Lois to see what he is seeing and he "makes" her see by making glasses out of his hands and then she finally does see what he is seeing....never in my life have I ever seen this done in any other form of story telling whether in movies or books. It was a 'wow' moment for me.

[harrison ryan]

I used to think that Insomnia was a very important point in the whole Dark Tower development. I think I read somewhere (was it in that WC Stroby interview?) that King got stuck with the first draft. My theory is that he "saved" the book, made it work by linking it to the DT universe, possibly some time around 1992 or 1993... I'm not sure whether he planned to link other works to DT before that. What's your opinion on that?

I think you could be on to something.

[John_Kenton]

Ha, I found the source, it was in fact WC Stroby's interview conducted in September 1991:

QUOTE
I spent about four months last year writing a novel called "Insomnia." It's a long piece of work, it's about 550 pages long. It's no good. It's not publishable. And I've been writing and publishing books for a long time. Taken piece by piece and chapter by chapter, it is (good). But I didn't get this one out of the ground. It broke. And I sometimes go back to it and I say: "Well, I could do this to it," and then something comes up and says: "No, you really can't, because of this." One image is that archeological one of trying to get a story out of the ground and saying it broke, but what's a clearer one in this case is to say it's like having a pipe sculpture - except none of the pipes thread together the way they're supposed to. Some do, but a lot of them don't, so it's sort of a mess. My reaction to that was to put the manuscript away, and that's what I've done. (...) The thing that hurts is that the last 80 or 90 pages are wonderful (laughs). But things just don't connect, it doesn't have that novelistic roundness that it should have. And maybe some day you'll read it, but it won't be for a long time."
UNQUOTE

If you want to read the whole piece, it's well worth it, go to http://www.wallacestroby.com/writersonwriting_king.html

Given that this was around the time when King wrote Dolores Claiborne and Gerald's Game, it is intriguing to speculate whether he originally planned to write yet another mainstream novel?! I sure would like to read that first draft and see what elements of the published book were there in the first place ;-)

[mtdman]

This book sucked. He should have left it in the trash, imo.

[Jean]

oh

[mae]

This book sucked. He should have left it in the trash, imo.

[jhanic]

Sorry, mtdman, but I completely disagree with you. Yes, the build-up is a bit slow, but the concepts are great, as are Ralph and Lois.

John

[richie01]

just finished reading Insomnia for the first time and really enjoyed it.

one thing i wanted to ask, has anyone ever made the connection between IT and Insomnia in regards to the balloon strings?

The creature IT was always talking about 'they float' etc and in Insomnia we are introduced to the notion of everyone having a balloon string aura attached to them...

[WeDealInLead]

I finally decided to read it and finished it in a few days. I think it's a good one. Not Top 10 material but I'll put it on the Duma Key/BOB/HIA level.

[Dan]

Glad you liked it. It was one of my favorites.

[stkmw02]

This book sucked. He should have left it in the trash, imo.

If King had left this in the trash, I may never have read any of his books. Insomnia was the gateway drug to my King addiction.

[Brice]

....and now you are a full fledged junkie.

[BountyHunter]

Just finished this, in two days. Absolutely loved it. In a way, it reminds me of my novel I wrote a year or so back (which actually has a small Dark Tower nod in it, as well). I should dig it out and get busy on my final draft of it.

Now, which King book should I read next? Hmmm...