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Thread: Allie - "The First Sacrificial Lamb"

  1. #26
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I think (operative word) what Letti was getting at was that love comes out of a desire to cease to be alone. If we were self sufficient, we wouldn't desire any relationships and particularly ones with the opposite sex. It changes a little between Roland and Allie after they've "hooked up" initially. They do some talking, especially in the revised edition. Like I mentioned earlier, Roland kept thinking about her...

  2. #27
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    To put it another way perhaps, would you want someone to love you only because they were lonely - not because of who you are?
    There were people in my life who loved me because they were lonely. I didn't make a big deal if it but I knew it deep in my heart.
    Of course it's the best to be loved because you are who you are, no question.
    So to answer to your question, no it's not my wish to be loved because of loneliness but when it happens I think it's natural and I hope that the other one will know me enough in the future to be able to love me because if the person inside.

    Love is like a seed.

    Roland would have understood.

  3. #28
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    To my mind he only thought of her out of guilt for the way things ended.

  4. #29
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    To my mind he only thought of her out of guilt for the way things ended.
    But that Roland wasn't that type of guy who cared about others, was he?

    Roland would have understood.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    To put it another way perhaps, would you want someone to love you only because they were lonely - not because of who you are?
    There were people in my life who loved me because they were lonely. I didn't make a big deal if it but I knew it deep in my heart.
    Of course it's the best to be loved because you are who you are, no question.
    So to answer to your question, no it's not my wish to be loved because of loneliness but when it happens I think it's natural and I hope that the other one will know me enough in the future to be able to love me because if the person inside.

    Love is like a seed.
    The question was purely hypothetical, but by asking it I meant to illustrate how Roland had no emotional attachment to Allie, he wanted to be fed, he wanted to rest and he was willing to sleep with her in exchange for her acting as a sort of maid to him. I really see him as that cold and emotionally void at that point. And in a way I think her neediness was part of what made it so easy for him to kill her, he resented being made to feel the way she made him feel (for the way he treated her) and he despised the type of weakness that she showed him.

    As for Allie, I don't think she loved Roland, she just wanted the company of a man as her life had become so empty.
    I obviously see Roland's relationship with Allie differently to you, Letti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    To my mind he only thought of her out of guilt for the way things ended.
    But that Roland wasn't that type of guy who cared about others, was he?
    I don't understand what you mean by that, can you elaborate

  6. #31
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    To put it another way perhaps, would you want someone to love you only because they were lonely - not because of who you are?
    Some people desperately need whatever love comes their way.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    Yes I agree, but I don't think it was love on either part with Allie and Roland. Theres a difference between love and comfort - and comfort is what Allie and Roland sought, albeit in different forms.

  8. #33
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Let's define love. Any takers?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Let's define love. Any takers?
    Sure...


    undefinable
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



  10. #35
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    1. I obviously see Roland's relationship with Allie differently to you, Letti.

    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkthoughts View Post
    To my mind he only thought of her out of guilt for the way things ended.
    But that Roland wasn't that type of guy who cared about others, was he?
    2. I don't understand what you mean by that, can you elaborate
    1. I see your point clearly, Lisa and you might be right. I can't really prove that I am right I can just tell why I think what I think but no more.

    2. I don't say Roland loved Allie but I don't think she was just a body for him, either. Because at that time Roland wasn't that type of guy who cared about others, he didn't give a damn about others' faith (life or death) so the fact that he thought of Allie again and again gives me the idea Allie might have been more to him than a female body... not much more but more.

    Roland would have understood.

  11. #36
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    Ah ok! I still think that he only thought of her because he maybe felt guilty for not sparing her life after she'd taken care of him - you know, it just made her one more person on his long list of people he'd used to his own selfish ends.

    As I said above, I don't disagree with you, Brice or Jude that the type of love we are discussing is not possible - i just don't think it was there for Roland and Allie.

  12. #37
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    I am not sure at all that Brice or Jude agree with me.

    Roland would have understood.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Let's define love. Any takers?
    [potential] ability to forever stay together with, and never get tired or bored of, someone*

    Clearly not the case of Roland and Allie, highly questionable with Roland and Susan, but possible, I believe, for Roland and Rosalita (as some of my friends seem to feel in that new AllHail's thread)

    *ability is the wrong word, I see it, but can't think of any better with my current migraine raging. Wish a native speaker would think of a better one.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. #39
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    potential???


    Actually, I must disagree with your definition of love Jean. While true, it is only a type of love.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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    M.I.A. Unfound One is on a distinguished road Unfound One's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Let's define love. Any takers?
    Good luck with that...


  16. #41
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unfound One View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Let's define love. Any takers?
    Good luck with that...
    *laughs*
    It was my furst thought as well.

    Roland would have understood.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    potential???


    Actually, I must disagree with your definition of love Jean. While true, it is only a type of love.
    it's how I understand it. For other types of love, there are other words.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. #43
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    That's why it's useless to define love. It has too many faces and everyone is sure that his or her love is the true one.
    It can be interesting but it can never be done.

    Roland would have understood.

  19. #44
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    That's why it's useless to define love. It has too many faces and everyone is sure that his or her love is the true one.
    It can be interesting but it can never be done.
    it is a very personal and subjective thing. i think that's why there is so much disagreement when we discuss allie, or susan. some of us see love, some see other things because none of us see love in the same way.

  20. #45
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    And that's why it's fun.

    Roland would have understood.

  21. #46
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    i agree with that too Letti

  22. #47
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    Roland would have understood.

  23. #48
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Okay stop with the concord...its making me sick.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

  24. #49
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Okay, let's talk about something bloody.
    Did you feel sorry for Allie when Roland killed her without any hesitation?

    Roland would have understood.

  25. #50
    Roont Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice has much to be proud of Brice's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brice View Post
    potential???


    Actually, I must disagree with your definition of love Jean. While true, it is only a type of love.
    it's how I understand it. For other types of love, there are other words.
    Yes, such as love, love, and let us not forget love.

    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    That's why it's useless to define love. It has too many faces and everyone is sure that his or her love is the true one.
    It can be interesting but it can never be done.
    I am absolutely unsure. I think this is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    Okay stop with the concord...its making me sick.


    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    Okay, let's talk about something bloody.
    Did you feel sorry for Allie when Roland killed her without any hesitation?


    Yes, a bit.
    The Awesomest fled across the desert and The Awesomer followed.

    If you rescue me
    I’ll be your friend forever


    I wish that I could write fiction, but that seems almost an impossibility. -howard phillips lovecraft (1915)



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