Book Dealers-eBay sellers-dt.org buyers/sellers/ to Avoid like the Corona Virus

[Lookwhoitis]

I am a pathological collector and one who buys a LOT of stuff through the mail. Although I may not be the most astute businessman in the world. I know not to enter a business negotiation immediately accepting a payment method that offers em ZERO RECOURSE (for the buyer) if there is a problem.

As for me not being a seller, i havent sold here yet, but im ready to list a few items any day now though. It shouldnt matter, though. Everyone in the market place deserves to be as protected as possible.

Paypal most certainly would have refunded sgc's money. The item was not as described. But we'll never know correct? Because he paid with Paypal friends and family.

[Lookwhoitis]

How does "regular" Paypal payments protect the seller? .

Why does the seller need to be protected? The buyer fulfills his responsibility to the seller when he sends his payment. It is the SELLER's responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to the buyer, even if he enlists a third party to do so.

[tippy4]

How does "regular" Paypal payments protect the seller? .

Why does the seller need to be protected? The buyer fulfills his responsibility to the seller when he sends his payment. It is the SELLER's responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to the buyer, even if he enlists a third party to do so.

That comment was in response to your comment that "Everyone is all unicorns and rainbows over TRUST and COMMUNITY and all these ideals and I agree they are very Important, but DENYING a payment method in which BOTH sides are protected is ridiculous."

[Patrick]

There are a good number of members here who I would pay cold hard cash today for the verbal promise of a book two years from now. No recourse for me, but I trust them completely to honor their word. If they got hit by a bus between now and then, I would consider the funds a condolence gift to their heirs.

(Rahfa, you non-seller, this includes you.)

[Merlin1958]

How does "regular" Paypal payments protect the seller? .

Why does the seller need to be protected? The buyer fulfills his responsibility to the seller when he sends his payment. It is the SELLER's responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to the buyer, even if he enlists a third party to do so.

Exactly. For the seller the one and only protection needed is, "Am I PIF". After that it is incumbent on the seller to make good on the delivery, product sold and condition as it were.

[tippy4]

There are a good number of members here who I would pay cold hard cash today for the verbal promise of a book two years from now. No recourse for me, but I trust them completely to honor their word. If they got hit by a bus between now and then, I would consider the funds a condolence gift to their heirs.

(Rahfa, you non-seller, this includes you.)

But would you buy me a hamburger today if I promised to pay you next Tuesday?

[Lookwhoitis]

A case in point.

I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg.

Randall Flagg is the benefactor. The owner of this website and the Jefe of this ragtag motley crew of biblophiliac enthusiasts. His site is the reason WHY we have a free place to trade.

I have completed MULTIPLE transactions with RF over my few years of being on this site. I don't know the exact count, but it has been at least five, probably even more than that.

I have more reason to TRUST him than probably ANY other seller on this site. He is a good dude and his honesty and tradeworthiness is without question.

Recently he sold me a signed Revival for a cheap price. It was shipped promptly with media mail including tracking. I was out of town for a week and had a hold mail in place. I returned from my trip and picked up the accumulated mail and the package was not in it. I decided to give it a little more time. After a few days it still hadnt shown so i checked the tracking number. It showed as "delivery attempted" the day before i returned from my trip. I thought that was funny because i did not recieve a door notice and then went to the post office twice looking for my package. I waited by my mailbox at 5pm and intercepted my mail carrier the next day, he was liek " i'll bet i know what happened to it, it probably fell down under the bin and got stuck under the shelf, those guys in the sorting room let that happen from time to time".

Lo and behold, he was right. That was exactly what happened. I got my package and was happy for it, EXTREMELY HAPPY for it because i had just narrowly escaped getting bit by the Paypal Gift bug.

RF had sent the package media mail with no insurance for a price of $6 bucks or so. Like a consummate professional seller, he offers SHIPPED prices, doesnt even bother the seller with pay me x amount of shipping. he just pays it himself.

BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

[Jimimck]

There are a good number of members here who I would pay cold hard cash today for the verbal promise of a book two years from now. No recourse for me, but I trust them completely to honor their word. If they got hit by a bus between now and then, I would consider the funds a condolence gift to their heirs.

(Rahfa, you non-seller, this includes you.)

But would you buy me a hamburger today if I promised to pay you next Tuesday?

Lol!

I Was in the middle of typing something similar to Patrick's post. There are heaps of people here I trust to send funds to in any manner they requested, but I reserve the choice not to if I don't feel comfortable. This site regulates itself well enough to weed out the dodgey sellers for me to remain comfortable.

[tippy4]

and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

I think the lesson here is that you should make sure the shipped price includes insurance, and if not, you should ask for it and cover the cost if you want it, but understand that if you don't take the insurance, the loss is on you.

Going forward, will you be sending Jerome Paypal gift payments?

[Merlin1958]

I can't speak for others, but as predominantly a "Buyer" I trust a transaction conducted here 100% because we do have a sense of community. That is why this particular disagreement concerns me. I feel the "Boards" overall integrity takes a hit if, management does not step in and make a determination. I have never sold here (to the best of my knowledge), but I have purchased quite a bit. My reputation in that regard is important to me. I think something that is being overlooked is that this site offers a privilege to buyers and sellers alike to avoid ebay fees. It is not a right. As such it should be valued and protected otherwise, it may expire.

[Lookwhoitis]

How does "regular" Paypal payments protect the seller? .

Why does the seller need to be protected? The buyer fulfills his responsibility to the seller when he sends his payment. It is the SELLER's responsibility to ensure the item is delivered to the buyer, even if he enlists a third party to do so.

That comment was in response to your comment that "Everyone is all unicorns and rainbows over TRUST and COMMUNITY and all these ideals and I agree they are very Important, but DENYING a payment method in which BOTH sides are protected is ridiculous."

Tippy, perhaps i am a little fired up and not communicating as eloquently as I am able to, but if u see the post above you will see I almost learned the Hard $159 lesson. and purchasing for most probably the MOST trustworthy seller on this site. One that I have send F&F Payments to multiple times before.

I am all about our community here. It is awesome! I love being able to buy stuff. I love all the folks who have hooked me up!

Randall Flagg, Cit74, wizardsrainbow, Badpenny, room217caretaker, and more!

Im all about screwing the BIG CORP! but not at the cost of no Recourse for the buyer in case of multiple list of possibilites.

Paypal friends and family is for sending your brother money when he needs it for the rent and doesnt have enough this month, your grandson $25 for his birthday, your friend the cash for the football ticket he bought you for this saturday's game.

It is not for buying merchandise though the mail. It is not for adding an extra 3% profit margin to the seller. It is not for enabling a protection against chargeback for the seller.

We need to develop ways to combat the money transfer fees together by agreeing onmutually beneficial terms, but the fact of the matter is sending money costs fees! Paypal charges money! Banks charge money when you use a credit card!

Sticking the buyer with those costs is not good business, especially of you wave it right in front of his face and also disallow him protection of his cash assets in case the item never shows.

[Lookwhoitis]

Here is wht I am going to do going forward.

If a seller wants paypal gift I will offer to split the fees 50/50. I want protection to ensure my item arrives.

If an item is over $100 in value i am going to ask that it be sent insured, even if I have to pay for he costs of said Insurance MYSELF

I am going to give preference to sellers who incorporate these costs into their purchase price ask and do not make me have to worry about these things.

If a seller demands paypal gift and after an attempted negotiation to split fees, they decline, I will do business elsewhere.

If a seller clearly lists in terms of their agreement 3% paypal fee charged to buyer, UP FRONT, and if the item is one that is hard to come by or one i really want and I think it is a good price, then I may do business with them.

[Merlin1958]

Just my opinion, but in the disputed transaction it seems to me that removal of the negative "rep" to both parties, a stern warning issued and a temporary ban to F-1 are warranted. Just MHO

[Lookwhoitis]

and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

I think the lesson here is that you should make sure the shipped price includes insurance, and if not, you should ask for it and cover the cost if you want it, but understand that if you don't take the insurance, the loss is on you.

That is ridiculous. I do NOT accept the loss is on me. The responsibility is on you as the seller to deliver my item. I have fulfilled my responsibility as a buyer to you by paying the negotiated price (regardless of whether it is 3% light or heavy)

[tippy4]

and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

I think the lesson here is that you should make sure the shipped price includes insurance, and if not, you should ask for it and cover the cost if you want it, but understand that if you don't take the insurance, the loss is on you.

That is ridiculous. I do NOT accept the loss is on me. The responsibility is on you as the seller to deliver my item. I have fulfilled my responsibility as a buyer to you by paying the negotiated price (regardless of whether it is 3% light or heavy)

Your response makes me think you did not completely read my post, or did not understand it.

So to be clear, you make a deal with a seller, and you ask the seller if that deal includes insurance, and when he says it does not, you then say "ok..that is fine...send it without insurance".....and then it gets lost or damaged, you would expect the seller to take the loss?

My comment had nothing to do with Paypal F&F.

If you passed on the insurance, that loss is on you...not on the seller, not on the USPS, not on Paypal.

[Merlin1958]

Insurance is a scam. They never pay. There is no practical reason to pay for it. I have had several "Insurance" issues and have been screwed on each occasion. It is not the viable solution anyone may think it is.

[Rahfa]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

[Merlin1958]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

Isn't that kinda the point behind this discussion? Trust and reputation for the board.

[tippy4]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

Just to play devil's advocate...why should RF take the loss when he lived up to the terms of the agreement? The only answer I can come up with is that he chose not to insure it.

And on the topic of the USPS and insurance, I recently filed a claim for damage, and within ten days I had a check.

[Lookwhoitis]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

I am not saying RF would have stuck me with a lost package, i believe he would NOT have done that. by sending P F&F you do not have the option to open a claim and have PAYPAL cover the package for non delivery. IF a package is lost AND the seller has proof of shipping said package, PAYPAL covers the loss.

I think it is laughable that when sellers think they are sticking it to paypal by denying them their 3%, they are really helping them to make out like bandits by eschewing liabiity to cover non delivery of items which is their CORE PROMISE of using their site to pay for items bought though the mail, lol

[Br!an]

People have operated on trust in dealing with each other for millenia.

People have also reneged on deals for millenia.

I trust most people on this site.

It saddens me when I have to add a person to the list of those I do not trust.

[Br!an]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

Also it was most likely insured.

[tippy4]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

Also it was most likely insured.

It was not.

[Rahfa]

A case in point. I recently completed a transaction with Randall Flagg. BUT if my package would have been lost by the USPS I would have been out $159. No recourse. Hell, RF is such a standup guy he may have even sent the money back or mailed me a new book. I dont know what would have happened because they found my book. and I learned a valuable lesson without even having to pay for it.

But why would you have been out $159? No way does RF stick you with a lost package.

Just to play devil's advocate...why should RF take the loss when he lived up to the terms of the agreement? The only answer I can come up with is that he chose not to insure it.

And on the topic of the USPS and insurance, I recently filed a claim for damage, and within ten days I had a check.

Well - if we ship something, it's up to us at least get it to the recipient. Shipping without insurance is on the seller, as far as I'm concerned...but that's me. So my feeling is RF (in this example) would not have lived up to the agreement had the book never been found - through no fault of his own, of course. If this hypothetical version of RF had not purchased insurance, that's his fault - that's why they call it 'insurance.'

I don't know about insurance for damage, but it's a no-brainer as far as a lost package...I would never ship a package worth more than $100 without insurance.

[Br!an]

I don't think PayPal will refund your money for a lost package. eBay might.