Languages and Etiquette

[cozener]

At work my bosses have decreed that folks that are bi lingual can only speak Spanish to customers and not each other. Apparently, they consider speaking Spanish to eachother to be rude to those of us that do not speak Spanish. I, for one, don’t really get it. I figure that if someone is talking about me and they can’t say whatever they have to say to me directly then their opinion lacks conviction, therefore, doesn’t really matter to me. I don’t feel left out if people speak another language around me. If they were talking to me they’d speak English. I’m sure that if I moved to some other country I’d be more comfortable speaking English and it would be easy to lapse into it if I were surrounded by Brits, Aussies, Canadians, and other Americans just like I’m sure its easy for these folks to lapse into Spanish around Dominicans, Mexicans, Cubans, and Puerto Ricans.

[jayson]

I agre with you a hundred percent Cozener. At one point I worked in an office where nearly everyone else spoke both English and Spanish. I was not "offended" or even concerned when they would speak to each other in Spanish. I just figured that since for many of them it was their native language it was more natural bc it was the language in which they think. I was comfortable enough in my relations with people that if anyone had something to say to or about me they'd do it in a language I understood so I never thought twice about what they might be saying if I didn't know [I do speak a little bit of Spanish]

[Jean]

what I know for sure, however, that I would speak Russian (or any other language) in the presence of people who don't speak it no more than I would masturbate or pick my nose in their presence. It's not a matter of anyone getting hurt, it's just the question of personal culture, like cleanliness or decency.

I like the position of those who speak for language majority here, though: it's up to the majority to be sympathetic with the minorities' problems and tactful towards minorities themselves; but it's a matter of the minorities' decency - ultimately, honor, - not to trespass on that tactfulness.

[cozener]

Masturbating and picking your nose...now thats an interesting comparison. Not just between speaking a language around those that don't speak it and these two activities but between these two activities with one another.

[Jean]

I hope the audacity of the trope won't derive the thread from its course. (there was no comparison, by the way. I said I would do that no more than I would do this, it's an entirely different figure of speech)

[cozener]

Ah ok. I took it to mean that all of these things were in the same class.

[Daghain]

I'll be the first (maybe only) dissenter here. I think it's the height of rudeness to stand around and speak in a language that you know someone else doesn't understand, and that is not the native language of that country. If you work in Germany, you speak German in the office. If you work in the US, you speak English. I think it is just basic politeness.

[Jean]

if you go back to my post, you might notice that it's exactly the point I was trying to make

[Daghain]

Well, my reading for comprehension is shit today.

I need to go to the doctor and get some "real" drugs for this cold.

[jayson]

Well, my reading for comprehension is shit today.

I need to go to the doctor and get some "real" drugs for this cold.

and you expect that to help your reading comprehension?

[Daghain]

No, but it may help my cold. Being sick for a month sucks.

[fernandito]

I'll be the first (maybe only) dissenter here. I think it's the height of rudeness to stand around and speak in a language that you know someone else doesn't understand, and that is not the native language of that country. If you work in Germany, you speak German in the office. If you work in the US, you speak English. I think it is just basic politeness.

There is a huge difference between the U.S and any other country - The U.S is a country of immigrants, and the diversity of races here towers over any other country. Here in my workplace alone, there are mexicans, guatemalans, koreans, fillipinos, chinese, and a handful of other nationalitys, and all of them speak in their native tongues. Why? Because it's a lot more comfortable for them to do so- they've spent a better part of their lifes in a different country, speaking a different language and with different cultural practices. I was born and raised here, so it's a lot easier for me to carry a conversation in English then it is for , lets say, my parents, whom where raised south of the border.

[Daghain]

Yes, but they live in the US NOW, so it would be polite (and prudent) to learn and use the language of the country they are in. When in Rome...

What you speak at home is your own business, and I do believe kids should be brought up to be bilingual whenever possible.

[obscurejude]

what I know for sure, however, that I would speak Russian (or any other language) in the presence of people who don't speak it no more than I would masturbate or pick my nose in their presence. It's not a matter of anyone getting hurt, it's just the question of personal culture, like cleanliness or decency.

I like the position of those who speak for language majority here, though: it's up to the majority to be sympathetic with the minorities' problems and tactful towards minorities themselves; but it's a matter of the minorities' decency - ultimately, honor, - not to trespass on that tactfulness.

Well said Jean. I agree.

[fernandito]

Yes, but they live in the US NOW, so it would be polite (and prudent) to learn and use the language of the country they are in. When in Rome...

What you speak at home is your own business, and I do believe kids should be brought up to be bilingual whenever possible.

So what if they're in the U.S? Being bilingual is an advantage, not a handicap. The owner of this place (whom is American and a caucasian) gives specific instructions to her kids 'nana' to never speak to them in English, only in Spanish; she wants her children to have the advantage of dominating a different langauge apart from English, because she knows of the types of benefits that it can produce.

[Daghain]

Like I said, I think it's good to raise bilingual kids. However, when you are in a business setting, you should speak the language of the country you are in. It's impolite, IMHO, to stand around work speaking a language not native to that country.

[fernandito]

Like I said, I think it's good to raise bilingual kids. However, when you are in a business setting, you should speak the language of the country you are in. It's impolite, IMHO, to stand around work speaking a language not native to that country.

And like I said, it's not that simple. This country is a trump card, it is special because of the MASSIVE amount of immigrants residing here- latin, asian, european, whatever. People like you or me can never understand what it's like to come from another country and to try to immerse yourself into this country and it's cultre, simply because we have the privilege of being born here. My parents "arrived" in this country with little more than the clothes on their backs, and they had to make a monumental effort to try to adapt to their new enviroment and to learn the native tongue (with no help from some of these racist fucks). Considering the fact that my mother was not able to attend school here , I am extremely proud of her for being able to speak English as well as she does, given the fact that the learning facilities (a*k*a school) was unavaible to her.

[Daghain]

Yes, but what opportunities are open to people who can't speak the language? Yes, it's harder for an adult to learn, but not impossible. And, the more you use it, the better you get. Not becoming fluent in the native language of a country is doing yourself a disservice and closing the door to a lot of opportunities that would otherwise be open to you.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[fernandito]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yeah, I think so.

Oop! pardon me a minute, someone is calling me here to my work phone...

Oye, boricua! Come esta todo? Tranquilo? Eso es todo!

[Jean]

казалось бы, люди могут проявить уважение к стране, которая их приютила?

[fernandito]

Jean, that is very impolite of you!

[Jean]

I didn't say I was polite, or I was after politeness, by the way...

[jayson]

according to google translator he said:

seemingly, people can show respect for the country which sheltered them?

[Jean]

Right. Again, is not a question of politeness or political correctness, but that of gratitude; the former does not seem important to me (unless politeness is an outward manifestation of some inner need, urge or just habit; again, much akin to cleanliness), while the latter is one of the basic features that form personality. Neglecting basic principles of gratitude; trespassing on other's people hospitality or tolerance is like forgetting the face of one's father. I understand it may be difficult to learn a language, but people who are unable or too old to do so shouldn't at least try to pass it as their virtue or sacred right.

[fernandito]

I think you have taken this completely out of proportion, no one is 'ungrateful' here.