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View Poll Results: How did the Horn get to Roland?

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  • He himself picked it up.

    65 48.51%
  • It was "a present" or something from Gan.

    49 36.57%
  • He just found it over there.

    2 1.49%
  • Something else.

    11 8.21%
  • I have no idea.

    7 5.22%
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Thread: So the Horn... hey, let's stop for a sec

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  1. #1
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    Default So the Horn... hey, let's stop for a sec

    If he has to repeat his loop from the desert - that's what we all think - , how could he pick up the horn???
    Maybe it's a very very stupid question and I cry your pardon if it's obvious but I have been thinking of it for awhile and it gives me more questions.

    If he has to start his quest from the desert he has NO chance to pick up the horn... Jericho Hill was ages before that...
    So how does it work?

    Roland would have understood.

  2. #2
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    The horn was placed on the stairs of the tower by whatever force(Gan, I'd imagine), so he picks it up before he goes through the door, not after when he is in the desert again. One can assume that him finding the horn tehre will somehow allow him to have it this time when he appears in the desert again, having changed things somehow to wher ehe didn't drop it at Jericho Hill.

    Or perhaps not even changing his memory of Jericho Hill, but he just wake sup in the desert and has the Horn, which would maybe give him some sort of clue as to what he should dodifferently this time.
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  3. #3
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    It has been suggested before that the horn was a gift from Gan based on Roland's growth during the 19th cycle.

  4. #4
    Citizen of Gilead Ka-tet is on a distinguished road Ka-tet's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    It has been suggested before that the horn was a gift from Gan based on Roland's growth during the 19th cycle.
    And there you have it.
    If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
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  5. #5
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka-tet View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    It has been suggested before that the horn was a gift from Gan based on Roland's growth during the 19th cycle.
    And there you have it.
    except it's also been suggested that the cycle we read was far from the 19th. i'd say the number of loops to this point we read is closer to delah than to 19. and as delah means beyond counting, so that sounds like A LOT more than 19 times. still, the ultimate point remains, horn as gift from gan. that i agree with.

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    Traveler mdk101 is on a distinguished road mdk101's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    It has been suggested before that the horn was a gift from Gan based on Roland's growth during the 19th cycle.
    ^ This.
    click for spoilers, I guess

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    Traveler soapbox99 is on a distinguished road

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    Default i think we have missed the point

    In the chronology of the dark tower world when the gunslinger begins the world has already moved on and by the time Roland makes it to the tower the universe is at its exhausted end, on the very verge of breaking apart. And in my mind there can be no doubt that Roland does not just return the world to the slightly less dilapidated state that it is when he crosses the desert, he actually returns it to the beginning of time. as the reader are shown the beginning of the gunslinger only as a metaphorical return to the beginning a return to where we met our great gunslinger and began our journey. In Roland’s head his life started over from a baby, in shardik the bear’s mind it was his first memories after being made, for the universe back to the forging of the tower and the beams. Time is simultaneous in the dark tower hence the ability to switch between when’s never travelling forward or back but simply stepping through

    The horn is the symbol of the beginning of the end to the endless cycle something even so tiny has changed and chaos theory dictates that that small change will ripple out and change other things it may only be one repetition it may be thousand but eventual when things are done correctly Roland will save the tower and restore the world with out returning it to the very beginning. The horn is a symbol of hope for poor Roland hope that one day he will be able to rest.



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    prediction of the future. Sometimes lies were more dependable than the truth."

  8. #8
    Roont Daghain is on a distinguished road Daghain's Avatar

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    I was going to say pretty much what obscurejude said. It is alluded to be a gift from the Tower - it's way of saying things may be different this time.



    "People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard


    "You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Jayson, so picky. It was just a suggestion. Don't have your 19th nervous breakdown.

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Don't have your 19th nervous breakdown.
    that's also closer to delah than 19.

  11. #11
    Citizen of Gilead Ka-tet is on a distinguished road Ka-tet's Avatar

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    At least we agree on that ^_^
    If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
    See the turtle, aint he keen? All things serve the fucking beam-Eddie of NewYork
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  12. #12
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    Horn as gift from Gan or anyone else ruins the whole story for me.

    ::tiptoes away with his own opinion::

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
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  13. #13
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    *calls after Jean for opinion*

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    Roont Daghain is on a distinguished road Daghain's Avatar

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    Oh, no you don't. Care to explain that?



    "People, especially children, aren't measured by their IQ. What's important about them is whether they're good or bad, and these children are bad." ~ Alan Bernard


    "You needn't die happy when your day comes, but you must die satisfied, for you have lived your life from beginning to end and ka is always served." ~ Roland Deschain

  15. #15
    Citizen of Gilead Ka-tet is on a distinguished road Ka-tet's Avatar

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    Yeah Jean, do tell.
    If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
    See the turtle, aint he keen? All things serve the fucking beam-Eddie of NewYork
    You burn prettily-Corwin of Amber

  16. #16
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    sorry, I won't sound very coherent now,- tired after a working day - will just sketch it roughly. Any story is, for me, the story of a human soul, or else it doesn't have any meaning; Roland's redemption is important, the subordination of the worlds is not; Roland not picking that damned horn at Jericho Hill was for me the key to his nature; Roland picking the horn means he has changed radically. The horn is of no importance; Roland is all-important. The horn falling from the sky is a computer-game bonus, go on to the next level, you have two more lives left. The horn picked by Roland at the moment when it was a silly, irrational thing to do is a whole different thing. A Roland who picks the horn may not drop the boy. Hell, he might find a passable solution in Tull. A Roland who receives the horn from a Higher Force is a pawn.

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  17. #17
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    sorry, I won't sound very coherent now,- tired after a working day - will just sketch it roughly. Any story is, for me, the story of a human soul, or else it doesn't have any meaning; Roland's redemption is important, the subordination of the worlds is not; Roland not picking that damned horn at Jericho Hill was for me the key to his nature; Roland picking the horn means he has changed radically. The horn is of no importance; Roland is all-important. The horn falling from the sky is a computer-game bonus, go on to the next level, you have two more lives left. The horn picked by Roland at the moment when it was a silly, irrational thing to do is a whole different thing. A Roland who picks the horn may not drop the boy. Hell, he might find a passable solution in Tull. A Roland who receives the horn from a Higher Force is a pawn.
    i see where you are coming from, and agree to an extent i suppose. however, for me the notion that the loops are the same is what is akin to a video game. if it's always, jericho hill and tull and jake it becomes a sequence of events to master, like in a video game. "pick up horn, turn left at tull, don't drop boy" and you get to the next level.

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    Citizen of Gilead Ka-tet is on a distinguished road Ka-tet's Avatar

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    ^ Left me breathless, thanks Jean.

    Do you mind if i quote " Roland who picks the horn may not drop the boy. Hell, he might find a passable solution in Tull. A Roland who receives the horn from a Higher Force is a pawn." ?
    If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
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  19. #19
    Citizen of Gilead Ka-tet is on a distinguished road Ka-tet's Avatar

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    ^ Another good point.
    If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
    See the turtle, aint he keen? All things serve the fucking beam-Eddie of NewYork
    You burn prettily-Corwin of Amber

  20. #20
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    ah, but even Jericho Hill is not the point! Roland behaving irrationally for the sake of something other than expedience, however, is. Let it be a different situation, but let him act there; Jericho Hill of the previous loop would then itself be just a hint, a pointer, a metaphor of what might happen on the next turn of the spiral, even if it doesn't happen on Jericho Hill per se.

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  21. #21
    Fundraiser Emeritus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958 is loved more than Jesus Merlin1958's Avatar

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    Default Jericho Hill

    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ah, but even Jericho Hill is not the point! Roland behaving irrationally for the sake of something other than expedience, however, is. Let it be a different situation, but let him act there; Jericho Hill of the previous loop would then itself be just a hint, a pointer, a metaphor of what might happen on the next turn of the spiral, even if it doesn't happen on Jericho Hill per se.

    I'm just spit-balling here but to me the actual events of Jericho Hill don't really count as part of the loop. Reason being that those events occur PRIOR to the loop beginning and therefore cannot be altered by Roland making a different choice. So, Roland somehow being "blessed" (?) with the horn for his 20th loop is significant in that it rewards him for personal character growth (to his soul? if you prefer) achieved on the 19th loop which is offered to us as the DT story.

    Also, I just recently finished re-reading the revised gunslinger which at the end pretty much (at least IMHO) sums up the number of loops question as it finishes with Roland dream, after the meeting with TMIB, of him blowing the horn and entering the tower at the end of his quest.


    Just another Tower-junkies 2 cents lol

  22. #22
    Gunslinger Apprentice wildfire1290 is on a distinguished road wildfire1290's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1958 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean View Post
    ah, but even Jericho Hill is not the point! Roland behaving irrationally for the sake of something other than expedience, however, is. Let it be a different situation, but let him act there; Jericho Hill of the previous loop would then itself be just a hint, a pointer, a metaphor of what might happen on the next turn of the spiral, even if it doesn't happen on Jericho Hill per se.

    I'm just spit-balling here but to me the actual events of Jericho Hill don't really count as part of the loop. Reason being that those events occur PRIOR to the loop beginning and therefore cannot be altered by Roland making a different choice. So, Roland somehow being "blessed" (?) with the horn for his 20th loop is significant in that it rewards him for personal character growth (to his soul? if you prefer) achieved on the 19th loop which is offered to us as the DT story.

    Also, I just recently finished re-reading the revised gunslinger which at the end pretty much (at least IMHO) sums up the number of loops question as it finishes with Roland dream, after the meeting with TMIB, of him blowing the horn and entering the tower at the end of his quest.


    Just another Tower-junkies 2 cents lol
    Well going with what you said, and me having just recently re-read Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came, at the end of the poem it talks about him blowing the horn:

    There they stood, ranged along the hillsides, met
    To view the last of me, a living frame
    For one more picture! in a sheet of flame
    I saw them and I knew them all. And yet
    Dauntless the slug-horn to my lips I set,
    And blew. "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came."

    I believe that this is kind of referring to the horn that he obtained by the time he reached the desert. Either that or the slug horn was his name for his gun and he shouted out that phrase. Anywho, what you said your piece about the end of the revised gunslinger this just kinda popped into my head. Not sure if this really helps the topic, but just felt like it was a nice distraction and maybe someone remembers another verse in the poem to answer the pressing question at hand.
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  23. #23
    Citizen of Gilead Ka-tet is on a distinguished road Ka-tet's Avatar

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    I dont think i completly understood last time.

    What your saying is even if Roland dosnt pick up the horn he can still reach the top?
    If you love me, then love me-Susan of mejis
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    You burn prettily-Corwin of Amber

  24. #24
    The Tenant Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean has a brilliant future Jean's Avatar

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    No, I'm saying the point is he picks it himself, whatever the circumstances. It's the question of his choice, not of picking up an artefact.

    Ask not what bears can do for you, but what you can do for bears. (razz)
    When one is in agreement with bears one is always correct. (mae)

    bears are back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  25. #25
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    But Jean, if Roland is awarded the horn based on significant ontological progression, its still about his soul the way I see it. Are you saying the concept of reciprocity between Gan and Roland is like a video game? It seems to me, that it is a bi-lateral contingency with the loop. If, then... Why else would there be a loop, or even suggestions of "redemption."

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