Doubleday Printings

[daniel_pyle]

Just an update I found another and bought a Carrie with $16.95 | No # Line on C.P. | No gutter code that’s in my bookshelf. So that’s two that I know of & I know it’s not the same book because my copy doesn’t have a sticker or remains of a torn sticker on the inside board nor is a name written on the book like one I posted a link to.

Thanks for the confirmation!

The 16.95$ Night Shift Copy is CC15

Updated. Thanks!

[BSC249]

Here's another one for the DJ Column (if you go that route):
Gutter code: BB50
Price: $19.95
DJ Code: T.S.

edit:
ugh... sry my previous post didn't go through. I'll get it up in a sec and this will make more sense.

[BSC249]

Daniel, I am NOT happy with you!
Yesterday I started looking into getting a 1st Edition of The Stand. I had confirmed copy right page info and gutter page info (of which I knew nothing yesterday LOL) and was off to ebay to start a watch list now that I knew what to look for. Then I saw your post this evening… I’ve read every post, followed every link and researched nearly every book mentioned over the past 3 hours! This gutter code stuff is so addictive! If you haven’t found them yet, here are a couple of really useful links re: gutter codes. Worth a quick 1 minute look:
Go to his FAQ on Doubleday gutter codes: https://www.stephenkingcollector.com/faq.html
Wiki: https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Gutter_code

A suggestion: Add a column for DJ (dust jacket) codes. Ie: The Shining | Gutter Code: R52 / Price: n/a / Printing: BCE / DJ Code: 1169
I found the DJ code form an ebay listing 😊 Sometimes the DJ code is two letters (ie: P.S. / they always seem to be: letter dot letter dot) and sometimes numbers.

One comment in re: to your post on 9/6/21 ( I edited this part to reflect the discussion )
I am not a fan of referring to a 2nd, 3rd, 10th printing as a printing of the 1st edition. Even if they use the same dust jacket, the words "First Edition" doesn't be mentioned with a books printing. It's either a First Edition or 2nd Print. I have plenty of books that are in 18th,19th… prints, have gone through numerous cover changes and are not 2nd 3rd or 4th editions. Take for example The Stand The 1978 1st Edition with the gutter code: T39 has the words "First Edition" clearly printed on the copy right page, just like many other 1st editions. However, subsequent printings do not have those words. In fact, I challenge you to find any Doubleday book that is a 2nd printing or later with the words “First Edition” on the copy right page. Even if you are using number lines as reference for 1st edition, there is not a single book with a number line starting with a 2 or later, that collectors need to refer to as a 2nd printing of the "First Edition", same DJ or not. The DJ is not the defining characteristic of the novel. Yes, occasionally, a publisher will start the print run numbering over and you will find a 1 on a book published 10 years after the “First Edition” However, this is simply a VERY misleading and greedy practice by publishers to generate sales. All they have to do is add graphics, a forward or afterword, previously omitted text, to generate a new 1st printing. That being said said, there are times when a stating 1st edition is relevant. As I have come to learn in my research of The Stand, sometimes people will have a BCE and unknowingly refer to it as a 1st edition because someone put a 1st edition DJ on it... ugh. Know your 1st edition issue points!
Anyway, GREAT POST! Glad to see you still check in!
Your list is HIGHLY VALUABLE in determining which printing a book is! Anyone not reviewing your list before dropping more than $20 bucks on a SK novel is just plain crazy!

[amd013]

Daniel, I am NOT happy with you!
Yesterday I started looking into getting a 1st Edition of The Stand. I had confirmed copy right page info and gutter page info (of which I knew nothing yesterday LOL) and was off to ebay to start a watch list now that I knew what to look for. Then I saw your post this evening… I’ve read every post, followed every link and researched nearly every book mentioned over the past 3 hours! This gutter code stuff is so addictive! If you haven’t found them yet, here are a couple of really useful links re: gutter codes. Worth a quick 1 minute look:
Go to his FAQ on Doubleday gutter codes: https://www.stephenkingcollector.com/faq.html
Wiki: https://isfdb.org/wiki/index.php/Gutter_code



A suggestion: Add a column for DJ (dust jacket) codes. Ie: The Shining | Gutter Code: R52 / Price: n/a / Printing: BCE / DJ Code: 1169
I found the DJ code form an ebay listing 😊 Sometimes the DJ code is two letters (ie: P.S. / they always seem to be: letter dot letter dot) and sometimes numbers.

One comment in re: to your post on 9/6/21
Referring to a 2nd, 3rd, 10th printing as a printing of the 1st edition is wrong. Even if they use the same dust jacket, the words "First Edition" should never be mentioned with a books printing. It's either a First Edition or 2nd Print, period. I have plenty of books that are in 18th,19th… prints, have gone through numerous cover changes and are not 2nd 3rd or 4th editions. Take for example The Stand The 1978 1st Edition with the gutter code: T39 has the words "First Edition" clearly printed on the copy right page, just like many other 1st editions. However, not a single subsequent printing has those words. In fact, I challenge you to find ANY book that is a 2nd printing or later with the words “First Edition” on the copy right page. Even if you are using number lines as reference for 1st edition, there is not a single book with a number line starting with a 2 or later, that any sane collector will refer to as a 2nd printing of the "First Edition", same DJ or not. The DJ simply does not matter when it comes to the “Edition” of the novel. Yes, occasionally, a publisher will start the print run numbering over and you will find a 1 on a book published 10 years after the “First Edition” However, this is simply a VERY misleading and greedy practice by publishers to generate sales. All they have to do is add graphics, a forward or afterword to generate a new 1st printing. Even comic book publishers, my forte, don’t do that practice and they print all kinds of variants (1a,1b,1c,1d,1e…) and every other practice under the sun to get people to buy more books. But I will say, if anyone ever referred to a 2nd printing of Fantastic Four 48 as a 2nd printing of the 1st edition in a shop or show, they would be laughed out of the building!
Anyway, GREAT POST! Glad to see you still check in!
Your list is HIGHLY VALUABLE in determining which printing a book is! Anyone not reviewing your list before dropping more than $20 bucks on a SK novel is just plain crazy!

I have to disagree with your comments regarding 1st Edition usage. How would you differentiate a 2nd printing of a 1st edition from a 2nd printing of a 2nd edition?



You challenged us to find an example of a 2nd printing that states 1st printing. I quickly found one, I have a 1st and 2nd printing of Elevation. The copyright page of both states "First Scribner hardcover edition October 2018". Other then the number-lines the copyright page are identical.



Regarding your FF example I don't know enough about it to say, but I would probably call it a 2nd edition (or 3rd etc) 1st printing (actually I think its rare that anyone cares what printing it is if not 1st edition). Or possibly "1st edition thus".


I am pretty sure the letters you refer to as the DJ code is just the initials of the book title (e.g. N.S. for Night Shift, P.S. for Pet Sematary).

[jwilkinson01]

From what I can see, BSC249 is correct as it pertains to the Doubleday editions only. For the Doubleday printings, which this thread is specifically about, it looks like only the first printings say "First Edition" on the copyright page. amd013 is also correct that later printings of Scribner editions (and I believe Viking as well) still state they are first editions. I cannot afford first printings of the Doubleday editions (I am a small fish in the SK Collecting world), except maybe Pet Sematary, which I am still trying to find a copy that meets my standards, so I have later printings I bought based on the information in this thread. None of them are stated "First Editions" on the copyright page.

My understanding is that in the book publishing world, the subsequent printings are generally considered "First Editions" as long as the book remains unchanged (same size, DJ, etc.), although we all know as collectors the first printing of a first edition will always be the most desirable. I personally still consider all the printings listed in the first post as first editions, but apparently Doubleday does not.

just my .02

[BSC249]

Hello amd013,
"How would you differentiate a 2nd printing of a 1st edition from a 2nd printing of a 2nd edition?"
I don't have to differentiate, the 2nd edition books are different books entirely. Take for example, the book I am currently researching The Stand. The 2nd edition of that book will never be confused with the 1st edition. It's like 300 pages longer and has completely different cover. Is there a 2nd edition book you can use as an example that has the same cover and number of pages as its 1st edition? Additionally, if so, what makes it a 2nd edition?

"find an example of a 2nd printing that states 1st printing."
First, that is not what I challenged you to find. I challenged you to find: "ANY book that is a 2nd printing or later with the words “First Edition” on the copy right page." Second (and I had to check myself &#128522 the line reads “First Scribner hardcover edition October 2018” They are telling you when the 1st edition was, not that the book you have is a 1st edition. That leads directly to my later statement that publishers will use deceptive practices to get people to buy more books. Your example is very good but the line clearly does not indicate that the 2nd print is a First Edition..

Thank you for the comments, I’ll respond to the rest hopefully tomorrow. We’re heading out to look at X-mas Lights!

[BSC249]

Dang, I wish I wasn’t pressed for time earlier because as I continued reading, I do agree, if its not 1st edition, no one really cares about the printing. Additionally, as you state your not a comic guy, I myself am less a novel guy as a comic guy and sometimes forget that My novel experience is limited to sci-fy and fantasy, although I do have a number of 1st editions and they all seem to follow my previous comments.

Jwilkinson01 does raise a few good points. “First Editions” and subsequent printings are generally considered 1st editions. As I'm sure amd013 was trying to point out to me However, I will amend my original comment to state: my personal opinion is that its not required to refer to them as 1st editions. If the story is not amended and the cover doesn’t change, why do we need to refer to any printing as 1st editions? If you can't tell the difference between a 1st edition and a 2nd edition, I would suggest you should not be buying the book, at least not as an investment.

Sorry if I seemed to be snarky in my original post.
Thanks for the comments!
Now back to the gutter codes. I may have a new hobby!

[BSC249]

I am pretty sure the letters you refer to as the DJ code is just the initials of the book title (e.g. N.S. for Night Shift, P.S. for Pet Sematary).

OMG that seems so obvious! T.S. The Stand...

[BSC249]

@daniel_pyle
In my research on The Stand, I started asking people for gutter and DJ codes. When I asked someone why they thought their book was a 13th printing, they sent me a pic of Your List! Since they could find no gutter code and there was no number sequence on the title page, he used the “NI” code on your list. This person obviously counted the listed printings you have found (and not found: two blank rows) to conclude he had a 13th printing. Other people I emailed: A Y29 was referred to as a 4th printing and yet another his AA48 as a 9th printing. Which leads me to these questions:

For The Stand: Why do you have two blank rows between T39 and Y29?
Was it your intention to purposefully not include BCE’s in any list?
- If yes, I’ll gladly delete that section of this comment so as not to confuse matters. However see my suggestion below
Have you seen a book without a gutter code that has no number sequence for the printing?
- My guess is that the gutter code just buried tight on the spine and the person is not comfortable bending the book open enough to see it. Understandable.

I believe your list has some real traction for people (at least on ebay) as an “official” list. However, if I read everything correctly, this is not the case as this is more of a hobby for you/us. Which leads me to these suggestions:
Remove the blank rows
- It gives the impression there are actual printings just not listed yet.
Make a note next to each books title “not an official list”
Include BCE gutter codes
- I have come across a couple of posts where people think they have a 1st edition later printing (Hey, now that makes sense!) due to the DJ but the gutter code is for a BCE
- However, if you can't tell the difference between the orange BCE and a 1st Edition, you shouldn't be buying or selling - so many misrepresentations on ebay...

I have probably reviewed 50+ listings for The Stand, yes it’s a small sample, but the only codes I have found between T39 and Y29 are all BCE’s.
Sadly, I have no new -non- BCE findings…

Edit: BCE list removed.

[daniel_pyle]

Thanks for the research and suggestions!

Was it your intention to purposefully not include BCE’s in any list?

Yes, I don't see any need to mess with BCEs. They're a completely different beast and don't have any bearing on the standard printings. They also aren't something most collectors really care about, so I'll leave researching them to anyone else who wants to take on that task.

Have you seen a book without a gutter code that has no number sequence for the printing?
- My guess is that the gutter code just buried tight on the spine and the person is not comfortable bending the book open enough to see it. Understandable.

Yes, I and others in this thread have come across several examples of printings with no apparent gutter code and no number line on the copyright page, which is why I finally added the NI printings to the tables. Below is an example of one of the copies of Carrie. I think you'd definitely be able to see at least part of the gutter code if there was one. I'm always willing to admit nothing about any of this is certain—still just best guesses at this point, and maybe that's the best we can ever really hope for—but I do think what we have now is the best guess based on the data available. As soon as it turns out it isn't, I'll change it.

Remove the blank rows
- It gives the impression there are actual printings just not listed yet.

That's exactly what the blank rows are for. I think we can say pretty confidently that there are additional printings in the list somewhere, and their current placement is just my best guess based on gaps in the DJ prices/gutter codes until I get more evidence. It might very well turn out that Y29 is the second printing of The Stand and the other printings come somewhere later in the list, but at this point it seems more likely to me that there's at least one more printing in that five-year gap, if not both missing printings. Once we get more information, we'll have a better idea!

- I have come across a couple of posts where people think they have a 1st edition later printing (Hey, now that makes sense!) due to the DJ but the gutter code is for a BCE

This happens frequently when people/bookstores swap dust jackets between different printings (either just because they want a nicer-looking DJ or because they're trying to pass off a BCE as a regular printing or whatever), which is part of what makes researching all of this so much tricker than it should be and why you have to see something multiple times before you can start to assume it's right. I'm guessing there are probably at least some sellers out there getting piles of books and pairing the best DJ with the best interior so they can have the nicest possible copies without realizing they're creating mismatches. And the thing is, lots of buyers probably don't care, so it's hard to even be too mad.

[BSC249]

Was it your intention to purposefully not include BCE’s in any list?
Yes, I don't see any need to mess with BCEs. They're a completely different beast and don't have any bearing on the standard printings. They also aren't something most collectors really care about, so I'll leave researching them to anyone else who wants to take on that task.

Done, BCE stuff removed. I think I will actually continue with the list as the longer I look for 1st editions the more and more and more BCE's I find LOL.

[BSC249]

That's exactly what the blank rows are for. I think we can say pretty confidently that there are additional printings in the list somewhere…

Therein lies the rub. Like most members here, we realize your list is unofficial. Unfortunately, most random people who come here don’t and use the blank rows as additional actual printings exactly where you have them. Which we know is not the case.

I think it would be beneficial to eliminate the possibility for misinterpretation and clearly state these are estimates. Only because too many people seem to be using the blank and their location as fact. Here's a little spreadsheet, I love spreadsheets, that I threw together just because I'm such a geek and now have all this info. LOL



ps: I tried using the BB code but since its SO limited I scratched it. Kinda bummed because I was pretty handy with HTML back in the day - dating myself a little LOL!

Dang it, where's my pic! Ugh this is so frustrating, can't use HTML (just the extremely limited BB code...) and the links I created from Onedrive don't work for the pics. Any suggestions?

[daniel_pyle]

Therein lies the rub. Like most members here, we realize your list is unofficial. Unfortunately, most random people who come here don’t and use the blank rows as additional actual printings exactly where you have them. Which we know is not the case.

Unfortunately, I doubt reiterating the information for each table will change how people use them, but I'll add some clarification just in case.

Dang it, where's my pic! Ugh this is so frustrating, can't use HTML (just the extremely limited BB code...) and the links I created from Onedrive don't work for the pics. Any suggestions?

Uploading pictures here definitely isn't super intuitive. You have to do it via the "Gallery" link at the top of the page. Then click on "Upload Photos." Once a photo is uploaded, it'll give you the code you need to embed it into a post.

[Jgarci33]

The Stand | DJ Price 12.95 | Gutter Code T51

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20421912514...mis&media=COPY

[Jgarci33]

@daniel_pyle
In my research on The Stand, I started asking people for gutter and DJ codes. When I asked someone why they thought their book was a 13th printing, they sent me a pic of Your List! Since they could find no gutter code and there was no number sequence on the title page, he used the “NI” code on your list. This person obviously counted the listed printings you have found

Umm the 13th printing of The Stand has it on the copyright’s number line so you and that person clearly misinterpreted the table. So I’ll just disregard anything else you say.

[Jgarci33]

The Stand | DJ Price 12.95 | Gutter Code T51

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20421912514...mis&media=COPY

BSC249 hey look another book that is going to fill one of the blank rolls! With more info the more of a educated guess in where those blank rows will fall in between can be made…. Wouldn’t you agree?

[daniel_pyle]

The Stand | DJ Price 12.95 | Gutter Code T51

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20421912514...mis&media=COPY

Nice find! Updated.

[jwilkinson01]

Carrie 10 in number line 17.95 Jacket
https://merc.li/nd3nhKS9b?sv=0

[Randall Flagg]

Carrie 10 in number line 17.95 Jacket
https://merc.li/nd3nhKS9b?sv=0

I see no numberline.

[jwilkinson01]

Carrie 10 in number line 17.95 Jacket
https://merc.li/nd3nhKS9b?sv=0

I see no numberline.

It’s on the last picture.

[jwilkinson01]

Carrie 10 in number line 17.95 Jacket
https://merc.li/nd3nhKS9b?sv=0

I see no numberline.

[daniel_pyle]

Carrie 10 in number line 17.95 Jacket
https://merc.li/nd3nhKS9b?sv=0

I see no numberline.

That's most likely just a 10th printing with an 11th printing jacket. I've seen enough copies of the 10th printing with a $16.95 jacket and the 11th printing with a $17.95 jacket to pretty safely assume those are the correct prices for those printings.

[Jgarci333]

Night Shift 8.95$ DJ | Gutter Code Starting with T (number not visible) | No # Line

Link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/36454131437...mis&media=COPY

[Ivo]

I plugged a few more holes.

While researching this, I've gotten more and more interested in what's going on with the Phiesen and Holdorf covers. At this point, I've seen enough examples to say with some level of confidence that, in general, Doubleday moved from one cover style to the next without starting the print count over. For example, 'Salem's Lot ran through 14 printings with the original cover. For the Phiesen cover, I've only ever seen 15th, 16th, and 17th printings. For the Holdorf cover, the earliest printing I've ever seen is an 18th. Same for The Shining (original: 1-13, Phiesen: 14-16, Holdorf: 17+) and Pet Sematary (original: 1-13, Phiesen: N/A, Holdorf: 14, 15). For Night Shift, I haven't seen a 12th or 15th printing yet, so I'm not sure where the switchovers happen, but as with the other books, I've also never seen any overlap. The Stand went from the original cover to the uncut edition, of course, and its print count did start over at 1 when that happened, as we know, but then somewhere around the 9th printing of the uncut edition, that one also switched to the Holdorf cover and picked up the printing number from there. I've seen so many 9th printings of The Stand with either cover that I'm guessing Doubleday started printing the Holdorf covers after the 9th printing had come out and put them on both new printings of the book and existing copies they still had on hand, probably so they could charge more for the books still on hand (the price seems to have jumped from $25 to $30 when they switched to the Holdorf cover). The only oddball is Carrie. I've seen original covers up through an 11th printing, but for the Phiesen cover, I've only ever seen a 13th printing (with a price of $18.95) and a 2nd printing (with a price of $20), which obviously came later, and I've verified those two printings multiple times. The Holdorf edition seems to start with a 3rd printing. So for whatever reason, it looks like they started the print count for that one over during the Phiesen period and then continued on from there, although they kept the same ISBN. I'm looking for an early copy of the Holdorf edition or the 2nd printing Phisen edition so I can compare it to the 13th printing Phiesen edition to see if there's some obvious reason they would have considered only that one a new edition. I'll update if I find anything.

How is it determined that the Phiesen DJ, 13th edition had a 2nd printing? Just from the price on the DJ going from 18.95 to 20.00?
My edition has the 18.95 price and no gutter code. Would it be more of just a second state DJ with a new price for the 13th edition?
It just sounds strange to me “13th ed. 2nd print” or if it is explained somewhere here and I missed it, that’s possible to.
Also my DJ has the Carrie title on the spine reading left to right (horizontal) were I notice most are printed top to bottom (vertical).
Maybe there’s 3 states of the DJ for this book?
Also again I seem to remember a discussion about the spelling on the spine in another thread a few years ago. I couldn’t find that either!

[daniel_pyle]

Night Shift 8.95$ DJ | Gutter Code Starting with T (number not visible) | No # Line

Link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/36454131437...mis&media=COPY

Updated. Thanks!