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Thread: Time differences between worlds/levels of the Tower *spoilers*

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Then, going from there, according to the dream at the end of The Gunslinger, there is an infinite number of other worlds turning on an infinite number of other spindles, and Roland's world is the pivot point of all of those other worlds.
    It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet

    I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    Then, going from there, according to the dream at the end of The Gunslinger, there is an infinite number of other worlds turning on an infinite number of other spindles, and Roland's world is the pivot point of all of those other worlds.
    Because it's the one in which the Tower is the Tower. I'm down with that.

  3. #53
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by zadok View Post
    What are your thoughts about them? And is Mid-World (and In-World/Out-World) just America thousands of years into the future?

    Do I have it right so far???
    So I've been giving this one a lot of thought today. I think there may be evidence that Roland's world is most assuredly not our world at another point on a timeline. The stars/constellations are different in Roland's world than ours. I don't propose that I know exactly how the cosmology of King's multiverse works, but I am pretty confident that with different stars, it is a different world. It may be very similar, and both revolve around the same axis, but to me, the geography of the sky suggests they cannot be the same world. Thoughts?

  4. #54
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    That point about the stars is a very good one.
    The kindness of close friends is like a warm blanket

  5. #55
    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    of course it is, i made it

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    I don't however think that the characters, roads, machines, computers, or anything else in Roland's world have any direct relationship to our own. I think Roland's world is a completely separate world, which bears some resemblence to ours, because it comes from the same place, The Dark Tower, which to my way of thinking, is a metaphorical spindle on which all other worlds turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    I think there may be evidence that Roland's world is most assuredly not our world at another point on a timeline. The stars/constellations are different in Roland's world than ours. I don't propose that I know exactly how the cosmology of King's multiverse works, but I am pretty confident that with different stars, it is a different world. It may be very similar, and both revolve around the same axis, but to me, the geography of the sky suggests they cannot be the same world. Thoughts?
    I also believe that Roland's world is not our own, largely for the reasons listed above. In fact, our worlds (ours and Roland's) probably exist in completely different universes - or perhaps dimensions - that revolve around the tower. Hence, different skies. However, I do think it's pretty clear they are the same in one respect: level of significance in saving the tower since our world is called a keystone world.

    {aside}Every time King mentioned the Great Olde Ones, I could not help but think of Lovecraft's Great Olde Ones. Got some pretty funny mental pictures of shoggoths building computers. And we all know what a huge Lovecraft fan King is...{/aside}
    It'll take a lot more than words and guns,
    A whole lot more than riches and muscle.

    The hands of the many must join as one.
    And together we'll cross the river.

    Puscifer, "The Humbling River"


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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Yeah, it is, but the possibility exists that over thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of years, that the stars could shift, doesn't it? Maybe a comet could knock the earth off it's path, blah blah blah. My sense is that Rolands world is a similar world to ours, but not ours. But an good argument could be made that it's our world in a different time line, 10,000 years in the past or future.
    It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet

    I believe there ought to be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. ~ Crash Davis

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woofer View Post
    However, I do think it's pretty clear they are the same in one respect: level of significance in saving the tower since our world is called a keystone world.
    Agreed Woofer. As Roland says "Two. There are two hubs of existence." It's clear that that Rose is more than just the Tower's placeholder on that level. The flower IS the Tower.

  9. #59
    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Oh heck yeah. I have always considered the Rose as the actual Tower in Keystone.

    I loved how Roland said it could protect itself for the most part. I would have loved to see it actually doing that...but I guess it actually was...it was still there after all.
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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I think its important to differentiate between "worlds" and "planets" in the case of a multiverse a world is another word for dimension or plain or universe. While a planet is a big rock floating in space with an atmosphere. All-World is another world so it would make sense that it would have different constellations.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by All_Hail_The_Crimson_King View Post
    I think its important to differentiate between "worlds" and "planets" in the case of a multiverse a world is another word for dimension or plain or universe. While a planet is a big rock floating in space with an atmosphere. All-World is another world so it would make sense that it would have different constellations.
    My point remaining true that different stars equal different world. My other point also remains that I don't know, or care, if it's the same planet or not. It ain't the same world as ours much as it may seem similar.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    A. Fuck you.

    B. Fuck you very much

    C. I understand, I just wanted it clear that there was a difference, since a lot of folk seem to confuse the usage of the terms. Which brings me back to points A. and B.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by zadok View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I'm not sure I'm getting my point across.

    On Roland's level of the Tower, computers could have been developed in say...Roman times for us.

    There is 0 reason to believe that their technology ran the same course as ours
    I do understand your point, Matt. But why would you say 0 reason? What about David Tassenbaum on Keystone Earth? Isn't that telling us that in the "internet age" is the "beginning of the end" for our civilization? That we, in 2008 are in fact the Great Old Ones?
    Why was JFK repeadedly referred to as "the last gunslinger"? Seems to me that SK is saying he was the last of the White until the rise of Arthur Eld thousands of years later. Didn't Walter's talk with Roland tie in the golden age of the Great Old Ones with our society today?

    Am I completely nuts thinking this???
    I'm with you to an extent. Because King places real people and events within his narrative, it sort of leads you to make literal connections and references. (I think this is generally a bad idea as I have said repeatedly in the "King's appearance in SoS thread"). That being said, It doesn't really make sense literally, and has been noted, such an interpretation leads to many various and sundry inconsistencies within the books. I am of the persuasion that feels that King is making very definitive statements about the dangers of technology and where such advancements might lead, but it remains futile to construct some kind of time line. The great old ones have been an enigma to me in certain aspects for almost fifteen years.

  14. #64
    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    I'm going to let Matt handle this one, since he's probably already typed out War and Peace on it as I'm typing this post.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    I don't know how to respond to that CK.

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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    You just did.
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Yeah, I guess I did, but with great fear and trepidation.

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    Life is beautiful LadyHitchhiker has a spectacular aura about LadyHitchhiker has a spectacular aura about LadyHitchhiker's Avatar

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    I agree. "There are other worlds than these" must also apply to the stars as well.

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    There are other stars than these.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice aurora is on a distinguished road aurora's Avatar

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    :radioactive: Other worlds -vs- All-World *Spoilers likely*

    Heres a question I have been wondering about for a very long time. All-World, Rolands world, is unique and stands at the pivot of all multi-verses with the Tower as the base.
    My question is, how can the keystone earth, and the other earths that are visited, be so far behind time wise compared to All-World and yet time runs faster there then in All-World?

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    Because the beams are broken... Or at least I thought that was why.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice aurora is on a distinguished road aurora's Avatar

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    That 'might' be the reason why time was running faster in Keystone Earth, but how/why is it millenniums behind All World? That has nothing to do with the breakers destruction of the beams.

  23. #73
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    Beg your pardon but someone who remembers the story a lot more than me probably has a more analyical answer but this was the only answer I remember...

  24. #74
    Banned obscurejude is on a distinguished road

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    Aurora, there's a vague reference in DT VII about how All-World and Keystone are "twinners." I think All World is just as significant and a lot of what King is doing with the DT series is exploring the dangers of technology (as I have mentioned elsewhere). The Old People sort of epitomize man's potentials, and consequently his downfalls as well. In a way, Roland's journey is saving Keystone World from the fate of his own.

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    Palaver Castle Chef mia/susannah is on a distinguished road mia/susannah's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by obscurejude View Post
    Aurora, there's a vague reference in DT VII about how All-World and Keystone are "twinners." I think All World is just as significant and a lot of what King is doing with the DT series is exploring the dangers of technology (as I have mentioned elsewhere). The Old People sort of epitomize man's potentials, and consequently his downfalls as well. In a way, Roland's journey is saving Keystone World from the fate of his own.
    I totally agree.

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