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Thread: Time differences between worlds/levels of the Tower *spoilers*

  1. #26
    damned and saved Letti will become famous soon enough Letti will become famous soon enough Letti's Avatar

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    I f we're talking loops NO time has passed??? Without time nothing exists, don't you think?
    Loop or no loop must exist time must go on... but I can be wrong.

    Anyway I like your counting.

    Roland would have understood.

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    Gunslinger Apprentice To The Dark Tower Came is on a distinguished road To The Dark Tower Came's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Letti View Post
    I f we're talking loops NO time has passed??? Without time nothing exists, don't you think?
    Loop or no loop must exist time must go on... but I can be wrong.

    Anyway I like your counting.
    Well time can be argued about from different angles. But when we think of the loops, it's like time travel. If you lived your life for three days and then were suddenly thrown back in time three days, those three days would exist for you, but time around you would have "reset" to what you remember as the past.

    If you take a sidewalk and walk past 65 lines, then you are picked up and carried back to line #1 those 65 lines still exits, but you have to walk them all over again. So in Roland's case, when he comes to the last door, and it opens on the desert, he has a flash of intuition. He begs for mercy because he realizes he'll be going through it all again. That being pushed to a beginning of his journey resets his memories as well. He goes from the Roland we followed to the Roland we met at the beginning. Reset.

    Most likely he retains the qualities gained from previous loops, but when considering time, then for Roland, it had reset to the time when he was in the Mohaine desert.

    All events from seven books have yet to happen...again.
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  3. #28
    Numenorean ManOfWesternesse is on a distinguished road ManOfWesternesse's Avatar

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    Going back to Letti's original question though...
    "....how many years do you think have passed between the desert and the Tower in Roland's life?"
    So really we're not talking about the Loop here?
    It's the elapsed time from the start of The Gunslinger (Roland in the desert) to the end of The Dark Tower.

    OK, spoiler
    Spoiler:
    I guess you could argue that the end of The Dark Tower is Roland in the Desert too Depends on just what we are trying to count here!
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    Good point, we could really say there was no time inbetween
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    Along the Path of the Beam zadok is on a distinguished road zadok's Avatar

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    :radioactive: Time differences between worlds/levels of the Tower *spoilers*

    What are your thoughts about them? And is Mid-World (and In-World/Out-World) just America thousands of years into the future?

    Here's what we know:
    North Central Positronics is one of the companies created by the Great Old Ones. We know that David Tassenbaum (DT7) was a founder. "Since the 10 thousands" = years AD. Walter told Roland as much at their palaver in DT1. Then that civilization disappeared and a 1,000 years passed before Arthur Eld rose and ruled over "All-World".

    Do I have it right so far???
    Last edited by Darkthoughts; 12-26-2008 at 03:01 PM.
    There are other worlds than these...

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    I believe so. I think Rolands world is an alternate to ours that is very close to the Tower itself.

    Its actual place in the time stream is irrelevant to me because its entire history would have been different than ours.

    It could be the year 2000 (or whatever) in Rolands world, just a very different place.
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    Along the Path of the Beam zadok is on a distinguished road zadok's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I believe so. I think Rolands world is an alternate to ours that is very close to the Tower itself.

    Its actual place in the time stream is irrelevant to me because its entire history would have been different than ours.

    It could be the year 2000 (or whatever) in Rolands world, just a very different place.
    Bear with me, Matt.

    Why does it have to be an alternate world? Why would it's history have to be different? They only trace history back to Arthur Eld, but we know he rose 1,000 years after the Great Old Ones. Why would their stuff be all over the place if it wasn't the same world? SK has said Mejis is Mexico...
    There are other worlds than these...

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I believe so. I think Rolands world is an alternate to ours that is very close to the Tower itself.

    Its actual place in the time stream is irrelevant to me because its entire history would have been different than ours.

    It could be the year 2000 (or whatever) in Rolands world, just a very different place.
    This is what I think as well. It's very similar to ours, but not the same. Many things are different in Roland's world, for example the names of cars and baseball teams.
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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by zadok View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I believe so. I think Rolands world is an alternate to ours that is very close to the Tower itself.

    Its actual place in the time stream is irrelevant to me because its entire history would have been different than ours.

    It could be the year 2000 (or whatever) in Rolands world, just a very different place.
    Bear with me, Matt.

    Why does it have to be an alternate world? Why would it's history have to be different? They only trace history back to Arthur Eld, but we know he rose 1,000 years after the Great Old Ones. Why would their stuff be all over the place if it wasn't the same world? SK has said Mejis is Mexico...
    I'm not sure it has to be, I just think it is.

    I do not believe the question of Roland our our worlds has to do with time but with the levels of the tower. Meaning there are infinate variations of our "world" within the Tower and this is one that went wildly a different way.

    The reason stuff from our world is there is because the spaces between the levels are becoming "thin"

    But not anymore because the Tower is saved and so is Gan I believe. Gan's Roland continues on
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    Interplay Fan HanzouNorak is on a distinguished road HanzouNorak's Avatar

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    andy in DT5 said he had been operating for 5000 years or was it 15000? ether way, considering machinery such as robots that are advanced as andy are (probaly) going to be develpoed in/or around 2100-2400, that puts roland's current time to possibly little over 5100-5400 or 15100-15400 years into the futrue (from the date of 2000). the Arthur Eld crap is probaly refering to the medeval King Arthur, though how hes confused into 1000 years after (what im assuming is) WW3, i cant tell you.

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    I'm not sure I'm getting my point across.

    On Roland's level of the Tower, computers could have been developed in say...Roman times for us.

    There is 0 reason to believe that their technology ran the same course as ours
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    DT.Org's Official Sweetie Wuducynn will become famous soon enough Wuducynn's Avatar

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    Right-on Matt. I was with you from the start...
    "It's his eyes, Roland thought. They were wide and terrible, the eyes of a dragon in human form" - Roland seeing the Crimson King for the first time.

    "When the King comes and the Tower falls, sai, all such pretty things as yours will be broken. Then there will be darkness and nothing but the howl of Discordia and the cries of the can toi" - From Song of Susannah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Its actual place in the time stream is irrelevant to me because its entire history would have been different than ours.

    ...

    I do not believe the question of Roland our our worlds has to do with time but with the levels of the tower. Meaning there are infinate variations of our "world" within the Tower and this is one that went wildly a different way.
    I couldn't agree more Matt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    I'm not sure I'm getting my point across.

    On Roland's level of the Tower, computers could have been developed in say...Roman times for us.

    There is 0 reason to believe that their technology ran the same course as ours
    I do understand your point, Matt. But why would you say 0 reason? What about David Tassenbaum on Keystone Earth? Isn't that telling us that in the "internet age" is the "beginning of the end" for our civilization? That we, in 2008 are in fact the Great Old Ones?
    Why was JFK repeadedly referred to as "the last gunslinger"? Seems to me that SK is saying he was the last of the White until the rise of Arthur Eld thousands of years later. Didn't Walter's talk with Roland tie in the golden age of the Great Old Ones with our society today?

    Am I completely nuts thinking this???
    There are other worlds than these...

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    Quote Originally Posted by zadok View Post

    Why was JFK repeadedly referred to as "the last gunslinger"? Seems to me that SK is saying he was the last of the White until the rise of Arthur Eld thousands of years later.
    Because that was one of Kennedy's nicknames. I don't think King meant us to literally believe that Kennedy served the White prior to the time of Eld in anything other than a figurative sense. He used Kennedy so heavily bc it tied in nicely with Suze's participation in the Civil Rights movement. I see what you are trying to say Zadok, but like Matt I don't see any reason to believe that the Great Old Ones are actually our society and not one of infinite deviations of it. As for David Tassenbaum being from Keystone Earth, you already showed in another thread that there may be a large inconistency with the Keystone Earth thing, so ...

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    Roont Matt will become famous soon enough Matt will become famous soon enough Matt's Avatar

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    Yep, that is my take on it. Kennedy being a "gunslinger" was metaphorical only.

    I never really got the impression that the rise of Rolands world was in the future of ours.
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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zadok View Post

    Why was JFK repeadedly referred to as "the last gunslinger"? Seems to me that SK is saying he was the last of the White until the rise of Arthur Eld thousands of years later.
    Because that was one of Kennedy's nicknames. I don't think King meant us to literally believe that Kennedy served the White prior to the time of Eld in anything other than a figurative sense. He used Kennedy so heavily bc it tied in nicely with Suze's participation in the Civil Rights movement. I see what you are trying to say Zadok, but like Matt I don't see any reason to believe that the Great Old Ones are actually our society and not one of infinite deviations of it. As for David Tassenbaum being from Keystone Earth, you already showed in another thread that there may be a large inconistency with the Keystone Earth thing, so ...
    He does draw more paralells than that though. Susannah equates Kennedy and Roland when she comes to understand that he is both diplomat, killer, and much more, after River Crossing. At that point she comes to understand that like Kennedy, he may be the last gunslinger of his time. I'm not sure that makes the point that we are the great old ones though.
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    Along the Path of the Beam zadok is on a distinguished road zadok's Avatar

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    I appreciate everyone's input on this.
    There are other worlds than these...

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    He does draw more paralells than that though. Susannah equates Kennedy and Roland when she comes to understand that he is both diplomat, killer, and much more, after River Crossing. At that point she comes to understand that like Kennedy, he may be the last gunslinger of his time.
    Right, but again, I think it was more to illustrate to Susannah that Roland was a lot more than what she may have thought up to that point, not to make any specific claims about JFK. Overall, I think the world of the Great Old Ones was a future of a world like ours, but not the future of our world.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by R_of_G View Post
    Right, but again, I think it was more to illustrate to Susannah that Roland was a lot more than what she may have thought up to that point, not to make any specific claims about JFK. Overall, I think the world of the Great Old Ones was a future of a world like ours, but not the future of our world.
    Nor is our world a past of Roland's.
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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Wouldn't that be the same thing? If our world is turns into the Great Old Ones than it would be Roland's. I don't think it is.

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    I guess :brain hurting:
    It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    i know how you feel. some of these big questions make me feel like eddie when he is just about to school blaine but can't quite get his mind around what he's thinking

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    Citizen of Gilead TerribleT is on a distinguished road TerribleT's Avatar

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    Well, here's my understanding of things, and what I think. I don't think Roland's world is anyplace along the timeline of our world. Well, I supposed it could be our very distant future, or our very distant past. I don't however think that the characters, roads, machines, computers, or anything else in Roland's world have any direct relationship to our own. I think Roland's world is a completely separate world, which bears some resemblence to ours, because it comes from the same place, The Dark Tower, which to my way of thinking, is a metaphorical spindle on which all other worlds turn.

    I don't know if I did a really good job of explaining that.
    It's stressful being an other. ~ Juliet

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    Roont jayson is on a distinguished road

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerribleT View Post
    Well, here's my understanding of things, and what I think. I don't think Roland's world is anyplace along the timeline of our world. Well, I supposed it could be our very distant future, or our very distant past. I don't however think that the characters, roads, machines, computers, or anything else in Roland's world have any direct relationship to our own. I think Roland's world is a completely separate world, which bears some resemblence to ours, because it comes from the same place, The Dark Tower, which to my way of thinking, is a metaphorical spindle on which all other worlds turn.

    I don't know if I did a really good job of explaining that.
    Made sense to me, and I agree.

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