The Marvel Cinematic Universe

[Hunchback Jack]

Generally, I *am* excited about Phase 4. It's a good mix of bringing back what were (largely) supporting characters as leads, of introducing new characters, and of a good movie/miniseries balance to help kick off Disney+.

I think it might have had more weight if GotG3 hadn't been delayed - I suspect that led to a few other projects being pushed out as well - but five movies and five new series is certainly enough to be getting on with. And I agree that Marvel have earned enough trust that we can afford to be optimistic.

(My comment about the politicization of casting in film for box-office gain was not a comment about Phase 4, specifically.)

[Earl of Popkin]

Florence Pugh in Black Widow. Future Crimes unit should already have a warrant out for her bc she’s going to steal Phase 4

[DanHocker]

Is Blade part of "Phase 4" or is it "Phase 5" I heard some where that it's Phase 5 but couldn't find any confirmation. Either way we're definitely missing some key movies that are supposed to be coming as well on this new road map. Guardians 3, Spider-Man 3, Ant-man 3, Black Panther 2, and Captain Marvel 2. I'm actually really surprised we aren't getting the Doctor Strange sequel in 2020 and maybe Black Panther 2 in 2021. Lately they've been putting 3 years between the sequels (except Spider-Man).

Outside of the MCU proper I wonder if we'll get any announcements for the Fox titles? There's still an unreleased movie from Fox and I was sure another Deadpool movie was in the works, and Kevin Fiege said they had no plans to ditch Deadpool.

[webstar1000]

Is Blade part of "Phase 4" or is it "Phase 5" I heard some where that it's Phase 5 but couldn't find any confirmation. Either way we're definitely missing some key movies that are supposed to be coming as well on this new road map. Guardians 3, Spider-Man 3, Ant-man 3, Black Panther 2, and Captain Marvel 2. I'm actually really surprised we aren't getting the Doctor Strange sequel in 2020 and maybe Black Panther 2 in 2021. Lately they've been putting 3 years between the sequels (except Spider-Man).

Outside of the MCU proper I wonder if we'll get any announcements for the Fox titles? There's still an unreleased movie from Fox and I was sure another Deadpool movie was in the works, and Kevin Fiege said they had no plans to ditch Deadpool.

Blade is 5. They did state that.

[mae]

Blade is Phase 5. What was announced this weekend is all of Phase 4, according to Feige. It's only two years, five movies and five mini-series. Will seed the plot for Phase 5 which I'm guessing will be the major overall Avengers event.



Other than New Mutants, there are no currently schedule Fox Marvel movies. I would imagine any new titles like Deadpool 3 would actually be part of the MCU.

[DanHocker]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

[Hunchback Jack]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

[webstar1000]

Get prepared for "Disney After Dark". They love to make money.... and will not throw away these properties. We will see them more.. just under a sub banner of sorts.

[Hunchback Jack]

Get prepared for "Disney After Dark". They love to make money.... and will not throw away these properties. We will see them more.. just under a sub banner of sorts.

Not suggesting they would throw them away, just not have their narrative be an integral part of the MCU narrative.

[DanHocker]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

[webstar1000]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

Really? See I think Blade will be connected 100%.

[DanHocker]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

Really? See I think Blade will be connected 100%.

Maybe, it's so hard to say Blade has never really been a "I hang out with the normal super heroes, hero" if you know what I mean. I feel like he'll be "in unvierse" but somehow I don't expect him to be a big team up character. He's also generally a lot darker / grittier of a character than anything they've done so far. But we'll see this is all really new ground here, as it seems like they're trying to do something different for what's next.

[Hunchback Jack]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

My problem with what DC are doing is not that they have a standalone Joker story, but that they have a standalone Joker story completely unconnected with the DCEU story line, using a different actor in the role. I mean, I guess there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it, but it does tend to blur the line between what is part of a continuity and what isn't.

I'm all for Marvel doing standalone films, or even series (like X-Men or Deadpool) which are unconnected from the core MCU narrative. But having multiple continuities share characters gets a bit messy.

[webstar1000]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

My problem with what DC are doing is not that they have a standalone Joker story, but that they have a standalone Joker story completely unconnected with the DCEU story line, using a different actor in the role. I mean, I guess there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it, but it does tend to blur the line between what is part of a continuity and what isn't.

I'm all for Marvel doing standalone films, or even series (like X-Men or Deadpool) which are unconnected from the core MCU narrative. But having multiple continuities share characters gets a bit messy.

I agree. DC is grasping at straws. They screwed up and have no idea what to do now. This is a total fail for me. They even stated the Joker movie follows no comic lore.... just silly. People want continuity and something to leed them to the next. This will only work for so long. DC and Warner need to start over. New actors, directors and direction.

[Hunchback Jack]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

Really? See I think Blade will be connected 100%.

Maybe, it's so hard to say Blade has never really been a "I hang out with the normal super heroes, hero" if you know what I mean. I feel like he'll be "in unvierse" but somehow I don't expect him to be a big team up character. He's also generally a lot darker / grittier of a character than anything they've done so far. But we'll see this is all really new ground here, as it seems like they're trying to do something different for what's next.

One thing about dumping all the available Marvel characters into the same narrative is that it can get unwieldy pretty quickly.

Infinity War and Endgame could easily have been a complete clusterfuck. There were so many characters needing screen time, and it was very, very impressive that Marvel were able to give them all a narrative arc of some kind within a two-movie narrative. But they were able to manage everyone's role pretty well.

But if you start introducing more characters that have markedly different tones and from markedly different scenarios into that mix, it becomes much, much harder. Like Dan says, Blade is not really a team player. Deadpool certainly isn't - and he's not as kid-friendly as the Avengers or the X-men, either.

So maybe they will be part of the continuity, but stay isolated from each other - much like Deadpool and the X-men, which are technically part of the same continuity, but not in any real narrative sense.

HBJ

[DanHocker]

I'm not sure what they'll do with Deadpool 3. Given Deadpool's R rating I really wouldn't be surprised if they left it as kinda it's own thing with sorta vague connections to the MCU and X-Men but nothing firm and really only a one way connection. Kinda the way Marvel handled Agents of SHIELD and the Netflix shows. They were in the MCU as far as the shows where concerned but the movies ignored them.

I tend to agree with this. I think some Marvel properties could stay outside - or at least, only tenuously connected - to the MCU, and it would actually benefit the storytelling.

Although I wouldn't have a non-MCU movie about an MCU character, like D.C. Appears to be doing with Joker. That's just baffling.

Ehh I kinda like what DC is doing with Joker. I'd actually love to see Marvel do some stand alone stories. It'd be kinda refreshing to have some stuff just be able to stand on it's own without having to be tied into a greater overall story. This is why I'm probably the most excited about the Blade movie, as I think it'll be the closest thing we'll get to that in the MCU.

My problem with what DC are doing is not that they have a standalone Joker story, but that they have a standalone Joker story completely unconnected with the DCEU story line, using a different actor in the role. I mean, I guess there's nothing fundamentally wrong with it, but it does tend to blur the line between what is part of a continuity and what isn't.

I'm all for Marvel doing standalone films, or even series (like X-Men or Deadpool) which are unconnected from the core MCU narrative. But having multiple continuities share characters gets a bit messy.

I agree. DC is grasping at straws. They screwed up and have no idea what to do now. This is a total fail for me. They even stated the Joker movie follows no comic lore.... just silly. People want continuity and something to leed them to the next. This will only work for so long. DC and Warner need to start over. New actors, directors and direction.

I don't disagree about DC, but it seems pretty clear to me that for the most part they are starting over. Sort of soft rebooting. With both Cavil and Afleck out (at least last I heard Cavil was out) they don't really have a choice. I think they intend to keep Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa around, but who knows about the actors that played Flash and Cyborg. Both of those movies have been on hold for awhile, same with the un-casted Green Lanterns movie. They're certainly soft rebooting Suicide Squad.

All this said I really don't need them to have a DCEU though. Just make good movies, I don't personally care if they're connected or not as long as they are good, and I think Joker looks really good. Also any Joker origin story isn't canon anyways. Joker in "canon" doesn't have an origin story. There have been Joker origin's told before but none of them were in the main DC comics universe. I mean the last bit of weird Joker lore from the comics I remember was that there were actually 3 different Jokers and they were using Lazarus pits to keep coming back (or something like that, I never did read the ending to that story arc).

[DanHocker]

So maybe they will be part of the continuity, but stay isolated from each other - much like Deadpool and the X-men, which are technically part of the same continuity, but not in any real narrative sense.

HBJ

Yea this is kinda what I see. I just don't know how you put Blade in the main continuity. Or if they every do The Punisher or Ghost Rider for that matter. They're just too dark and don't really fit in with the world they've created. Honestly while I'm super excited for Blade, I don't really know how that works in the world they've got now. Like how have vampires existed this whole time?

[webstar1000]

Ghost Rider.... Spawn... Punisher.. there is SO MANY good ones they can do. Will they is the question?

[Hunchback Jack]

DC need a Kevin Feige. It's as simple as that.

Look at the confidence with which Marvel announced Phase 4. They have a plan. They know what they are doing. They aren't afraid to have a mix of tones, character match-ups, and a balance between new and old heroes. And even though they suddenly have access to a bunch of Marvel properties, they are taking their time in integrating them into the core narrative - if they ever do.

DC simply lacks that confidence. They tried to rush into Justice League in response to the success of Avengers, and then got cold feet at the last minute. The result wasn't great. They are now starting to pick up steam again with their standalone films, and look like they are willing to take their time before planning another team-up movie. But it's still feels a little ah-hoc compared to the MCU.

[mae]

We do have a DC thread, hint hint!

I think with these types of movies going forward, given what Marvel has been able to accomplish, it almost has to be a shared universe. Copying the formula isn't in itself a bad idea, it's almost a must at this point. After 11 years of the MCU the audience knows what to expect from a comic book movie, and comic book fans have known this all along.

[webstar1000]

DC need a Kevin Feige. It's as simple as that.

Look at the confidence with which Marvel announced Phase 4. They have a plan. They know what they are doing. They aren't afraid to have a mix of tones, character match-ups, and a balance between new and old heroes. And even though they suddenly have access to a bunch of Marvel properties, they are taking their time in integrating them into the core narrative - if they ever do.

DC simply lacks that confidence. They tried to rush into Justice League in response to the success of Avengers, and then got cold feet at the last minute. The result wasn't great. They are now starting to pick up steam again with their standalone films, and look like they are willing to take their time before planning another team-up movie. But it's still feels a little ah-hoc compared to the MCU.

I totally agree with this. 100%. Well said... well said.

PS: I DO 100% believe that there will be a total integration of the Xmen. It is the logical way to create the next Endgame sized movie. Now.. long way off (10 years?) BUT I believe it is coming...

[MikeDuke]

Yea, my friend who knows a lot about this stuff said that it might be a while before we see the X-Men rolled up into the MCU. I am assuming there will be lots of good movies between now and then.

[DanHocker]

Ghost Rider.... Spawn... Punisher.. there is SO MANY good ones they can do. Will they is the question?

Spawn is actually a Image Comics property. I wouldn't be surprised if we got something Ghost Rider at some point, my guess is either a Disney+ show or they're gonna do a spin off of Agents of SHIELD using the Ghost Rider they established there. I'd love more Punisher, I really liked the Netflix show, but I don't think it'll be a movie. I think he's probably way too violent / "murdery" for a MCU movie.

[DanHocker]

Yea, my friend who knows a lot about this stuff said that it might be a while before we see the X-Men rolled up into the MCU. I am assuming there will be lots of good movies between now and then.

I suspect we'll see something in that Phase 5 or 6. But the way it sounded to me is that the whole Fox purchase thing was just as much of a shock to Marvel Studios as it was to us, and it takes a while for the "Hollywood Machine" to change gears.

[MikeDuke]

Yea, my friend who knows a lot about this stuff said that it might be a while before we see the X-Men rolled up into the MCU. I am assuming there will be lots of good movies between now and then.

I suspect we'll see something in that Phase 5 or 6. But the way it sounded to me is that the whole Fox purchase thing was just as much of a shock to Marvel Studios as it was to us, and it takes a while for the "Hollywood Machine" to change gears.

Well, since phase 4 is going to be pretty fast, who knows. I wonder how long phase 5 and 6 are (could, would) going to be.