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Thread: The Marvel Cinematic Universe

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    Default The Marvel Cinematic Universe

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorZaius View Post
    Ok, so I’ll be the first here, in a fairly generic way. I saw Captain Marvel tonight. I liked it, but did not love it. Pretty average overall. I loved the opening credits and the two end credit sequences. I hated the first 15 minutes. I hated the Star Wars ripoff canyon fighter sequence. I longed for more agent Coulson. At times the banter between a Fury and Captain Marvel was funny. I’d rank it near the bottom for Marvel movies, near the first Thor movie for me. 7/10. I guess that makes me a misogynist. The me-too movement/backlash will prevent a lot of honest discussion about the film’s true merits.

    I know the comparisons are not fair, but I loved Wonder Woman so much, and this just can’t compete.
    I felt some of the jokes were forced but really liked it. The group we went with all loved it and none of us thought to compare it to Wonder Women. I fear that’s what many will do which is too bad. I loved Bree In the roll and thought the story flowed well. Our theatre clapped when it was over! I look forward to the next one and who cares if it’s a woman. I see that on line and don’t get it or the hate that goes with it. I wouldn’t care if we had any kind of superhero long as it was cool and brother... I thought this was cool! Hope I’m not alone in this. The first Thor is my least fav (as you) and I would put this in my top 10 for sure. Shame you didn’t like it!


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  2. #852
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    https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-br...eir-damn-minds
    Brie Larson’s casting as the superhero Captain Marvel sparked controversy from the start—though in 2016, among those familiar with the character, it was not because of the actress’ politics. It was her age. Carol Danvers’ rebranding from the swimsuit-clad Ms. Marvel to Captain Marvel in her 2012 solo comic book series had seemed to age the character’s appearance roughly into her mid-thirties. Larson, meanwhile, was only 26.

    Debates about double standards in the Marvel Cinematic Universe—Robert Downey Jr. first played Iron Man well past 40 and will bow out at 53, yet some maintained that frequently fan-cast actresses like Emily Blunt or Katee Sackhoff might be too old for a decade-plus of blockbuster action—raged amid calls not to underestimate an Oscar-winning actress because of her youth.

    That fervor soon passed. The MCU’s first solo female-led film had already been bumped twice from its originally announced July 2018 release date, and did not land its pair of directors, Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck, until two years ago. To the Carol Corps (the self-branded group of fans bonded through a love of Captain Marvel, identifiable at conventions and online by their knitted scarves, hats, and handmade merch), whether the movie would see the light of the day at all became a more pressing question than the actress’ age.

    It helped that Larson’s persona, in the meantime, has become associated with celebrity acts of bravery. She famously refused to clap for accused sexual harasser Casey Affleck onstage at the Oscars, and became one of few actors to call for more diversity in the film press that covers their projects. On the eve of Captain Marvel’s release, longtime fans of the character and of the MCU generally seem fine with—if not outright charmed by—her. It’s not these fans' voices rising in hysteria over a manufactured controversy, determined to hijack an otherwise joyous cultural moment.

    In the same style of harassment internet campaigns that have targeted women and minorities in video games, comics, and geek-branded film franchises like Ghostbusters and Star Wars, reactionary trolls have burped up a deluge of content targeting Larson and Captain Marvel in recent weeks. Most of it claims to be outraged over the notion that Larson hates white men, which is what someone might take from the following out-of-context quote by Larson if it were relayed through a 30-person game of telephone in which everyone has cotton balls stuffed in their mouths and is also mostly deaf:

    “About a year ago, I started paying attention to what my press days looked like and the critics reviewing movies, and noticed it appeared to be overwhelmingly white male,” Larson told Marie Claire interviewer Keah Brown, a disabled journalist the actress handpicked for the gig. “So, I spoke to Dr. Stacy Smith at the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, who put together a study to confirm that. Moving forward, I decided to make sure my press days were more inclusive. After speaking with you, the film critic Valerie Complex and a few other women of color, it sounded like across the board they weren’t getting the same opportunities as others. When I talked to the facilities that weren’t providing it, they all had different excuses.”

    The quote was picked up by film sites last month and regurgitated under headlines that emphasized the words “white" and "male” rather than “inclusive,” priming men’s rights activists and so-called “incels” to mobilize online over an imagined slight. To them, a call for expanded access to opportunities for women and people of color in a space traditionally dominated by white men (like a Marvel film’s press junket) is not only an insult—it amounts to a threat to take away what they consider theirs. And at this point, five years after Gamergate established the playbook for how online harassment campaigns target those who advocate for diversity, websites and content creators have caught on, to their benefit.

    Hence the page after page of search results for “Brie Larson” on YouTube, as journalists Matthew Yglesias and Ben Collins noted on Twitter, with titles like “Brie Larson is Ruining Marvel!” (eleven minutes long, 786,000 views) and “How Brie Larson Cost Marvel One Hundred Million Dollars” (20 minutes long, 1.6 million views, extremely faulty math). The latter calls Larson “the demise of entertainment,” a “loudmouth blonde-haired narcissist,” and “confused.” The former argues that one could actually mute a clip of Larson entirely and still glean her pure hatred toward white men: it’s in “that little head jerk” of hers, the video maintains. Tweets parroting this point abound.

    Another video’s cover image features Larson in costume as Captain Marvel, with the words “Kill All Men!” typed across in yellow letters (269,000 views). All this to say nothing of the comment sections, or the genre of ten-minute-plus videos railing against Larson for not smiling in the movie’s first trailer. (She smiles and smirks and laughs quite a lot in the actual film, but what does that matter?) The toxic obsession with Larson extends to her Twitter mentions and Wikipedia page, where choice edits include: “She is also responsible for all the hate against upcoming Marvels [sic] movie ‘Captain Marvel’, cause she made made [sic] hate speech against all white man (in our culture if it was against all black man or women, it 100% would be a hate speech).”

    Distortions of what Larson actually said to Marie Claire in the name of assuming victimhood for “all white man” also fuel a “boycott” of the film that hopes to pit it against another female-fronted action movie, Alita: Battle Angel. Alt-right conspiracy-peddler Jack Posobiec caught wind of the #AlitaChallenge within days: “We’re gonna stop giving money to people who hate us,” he declares in a video posted to Twitter, citing “Brie Larson and her little comments about how this movie isn’t for white males,” and listing the usual bullet points about “SJW bull crap” being “shoved” down delicate throats.

    Backlash cycles against films like this feel almost rote in 2019, familiar down to the disingenuous talking points and tactics of oversensitive men threatened by blockbuster franchise leads who do not look like them. We’ve seen it with the all-female Ghostbusters, Ocean’s 8, Star Wars: The Last Jedi, and Black Panther. At least one favorite tool of anti-diversity reactionaries has been disrupted on this go-round, though: the Rotten Tomatoes audience score. The review aggregate site will no longer allow audiences (apart from critics, who make up the site’s “official” score) to review and rate films before their release.

    The change came two weeks before Captain Marvel’s Friday debut but was not spurred specifically in response to it, according to the site’s president. (Prior to the change, Captain Marvel’s audience score had been dragged down to a 44 percent audience rating thanks to organized review-bombing campaigns.) “Unfortunately, we have seen an uptick in non-constructive input, sometimes bordering on trolling, which we believe is a disservice to our general readership,” a statement on the Rotten Tomatoes site reads. “Don’t worry though, fans will still get to have their say: Once a movie is released, audiences can leave a user rating and comments as they always have.” Still, angry men seized the occasion to cry censorship and post screenshots of themselves canceling ticket orders. “You can kiss my white, MALE ass,” wrote one.

    While Rotten Tomatoes is doing what it can to keep such blind tantrums contained, other sites seem poised to capitalize. Editor and screenwriter Ashley Lynch notes on Twitter that in its review of Captain Marvel, trade publication The Hollywood Reporter affixed alt-right favorite terms like “SJW” and “NPC” (“non-player character,” a term borrowed from video games meant to insult someone who cannot think for themselves) as search tags. At the least, their inclusion marks an editor’s decision to include hate campaigning as part of the Captain Marvel narrative. At worst, it functions as an effort to bring in extra eyeballs by flagging the film and its actress as targets.

    A movie like Captain Marvel, starring a pretty young woman who doesn’t care to make her opinions palatable to men, about a character more powerful than any in the MCU, was never going to sit well with the kind of superhero fan who’d tell a woman to smile more. Larson’s efforts to foster inclusion in film are a fig leaf for a movement grasping for any excuse to lash out. But the more I think about it, the more appropriate it feels that this Carol Danvers is in her twenties. Self-actualized young women unbothered by men with small minds and smaller hearts are our culture’s real-life obsession right now, too. And while the rest of us stew in the same tired discourse, they simply fly higher, further, faster.

  3. #853
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorZaius View Post
    The me-too movement/backlash will prevent a lot of honest discussion about the film’s true merits.
    I fear you are right, hopefully that won't happen here though. Would like to judge the film on its own merits.

    Haven't seen it yet, but I fear one of the disadvantages its saddled with is being the bridge between Phase III and Phase IV. It (presumably) juggles both Carol's origin story and a gateway into a bigger part of the MCU Cosmos.

    Hope it doesn't affect the flow too much. We'll see.

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  5. #855
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    That article you posted, like most of them denouncing the backlash about Captain Marvel, got one key thing wrong: They weren't affecting the films audience RATING. It was the Want To See metric, which is a simple yes or no, and people could say why or why not. It had zero effect on the rating itself.

    All articles like that do is galvanize the trolls and help create battle lines around films. Like most things in society, the problem would solve itself if people would just stop making it bigger than it is. I mean, who cares if some losers want to drop the want to see score for Captain Marvel? What does it actually effect? It accomplishes nothing except piss people off, and when you write an article like this, you're just justifying the behavior of the trolls and they're going to double down now.

    But politics with films and around films has gotten ridiculous. I can barely even partake in conversations anymore. All the enjoyment is out of it. I read a review for The Mule and I think, this is an alright review, and then the last three paragraphs are bitching about Trump, the wall, xenophobia, representation, and Eastwoods right wing beliefs. I can't just watch Green Book and enjoy it. There has to be months of complaining about it, and then more when it wins best picture. Whatever happened to just watching a movie, and talking about what the movie did right and wrong, and not reducing film talk down to race, gender, and sexuality?

    I was going to see Captain Marvel, but I've heard a lot of pretty meh things, so I think I'll save the 15 bucks and wait for Endgame.

    Also, Brie Larson needs to pay more attention to what she says. After that quote in the article she also said that "It really sucks that reviews matter", which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard an actor say. Opinion on your work is literally the most important thing to you, Brie...it's kind of how you get jobs.
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  6. #856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mattrick View Post
    That article you posted, like most of them denouncing the backlash about Captain Marvel, got one key thing wrong: They weren't affecting the films audience RATING. It was the Want To See metric, which is a simple yes or no, and people could say why or why not. It had zero effect on the rating itself.

    All articles like that do is galvanize the trolls and help create battle lines around films. Like most things in society, the problem would solve itself if people would just stop making it bigger than it is. I mean, who cares if some losers want to drop the want to see score for Captain Marvel? What does it actually effect? It accomplishes nothing except piss people off, and when you write an article like this, you're just justifying the behavior of the trolls and they're going to double down now.

    But politics with films and around films has gotten ridiculous. I can barely even partake in conversations anymore. All the enjoyment is out of it. I read a review for The Mule and I think, this is an alright review, and then the last three paragraphs are bitching about Trump, the wall, xenophobia, representation, and Eastwoods right wing beliefs. I can't just watch Green Book and enjoy it. There has to be months of complaining about it, and then more when it wins best picture. Whatever happened to just watching a movie, and talking about what the movie did right and wrong, and not reducing film talk down to race, gender, and sexuality?

    I was going to see Captain Marvel, but I've heard a lot of pretty meh things, so I think I'll save the 15 bucks and wait for Endgame.

    Also, Brie Larson needs to pay more attention to what she says. After that quote in the article she also said that "It really sucks that reviews matter", which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard an actor say. Opinion on your work is literally the most important thing to you, Brie...it's kind of how you get jobs.
    It’s $15 bucks... i recommend seeing it for yourself. Forming your own opinions before letting others sour them. You might be surprised. I also agree that Bree Larson should shut up and realize that her words can affect her and the people around her.


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  7. #857
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    Is it the best film of the year? No. Is it the best MCU film? Also no. And people should feel free to criticize it in good faith for any faults they find, regardless of their gender or race. etc. The point of that article and others like it is to bring this phenomenon to the attention of those who may not know about it, and it's a thing that's been happening in our culture, as the article points out, and not just limited to Captain Marvel. "Whatever happened to just watching a movie" indeed.

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    I am going to put my mini review here also.
    Just saw it. There are articles out there how this is being rated down by trolls on Rotten Tomatoes. I really liked it. I thought that she did a fine job. Personally, I agree with a review I read. They felt this film was out of order. I don't know if she needed to be introduced in another film, but IMHO, this film should have been before IW. If this were before IW, then I think it would have flowed much better. But I did like it a lot.

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    I'm not sure if this would've worked before Infinity War. I really like the post-credits scene in Infinity War and how it ties to Captain Marvel which in turns ties into Endgame. I think it's structured really well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mae View Post
    I'm not sure if this would've worked before Infinity War. I really like the post-credits scene in Infinity War and how it ties to Captain Marvel which in turns ties into Endgame. I think it's structured really well.
    I totally agree. Loved the way they did it. Thought it was different and worked.


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    I do agree with both of you. The post credit screen in IW was great and I do know that it would have been difficult to do.it before IW. But that's just how I felt at the moment. Maybe I have to think about it some more. Maybe a second viewing would help. I liked the main post credit scene in CM as that setup IW Endgame perfectly. Maybe it's just me. But I also had other issues which I will keep to myself. But again, I did enjoy it very much.

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    Like it or hate it. Trolls or no trolls. Captain Marvel crushed the box office.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...obally-1193585

    Also, to piggyback off of what Matt said earlier. Many of the negativity that was surrounding the film was from people that wanted to see the film or not, which is different from people who have actually seen the film.

    That is evidenced by an A CinemaScore and strong exit grades.
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    Saw it last night. Its.. Okay. Just okay. Probably lower half MCU, just above Thor 2 and Iron Man 2 for me. Full review tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mae View Post
    Is it the best film of the year? No. Is it the best MCU film? Also no. And people should feel free to criticize it in good faith for any faults they find, regardless of their gender or race. etc. The point of that article and others like it is to bring this phenomenon to the attention of those who may not know about it, and it's a thing that's been happening in our culture, as the article points out, and not just limited to Captain Marvel. "Whatever happened to just watching a movie" indeed.
    It's an extreme minority on those crusades. They're far outnumbered to those against them, which is why they're so aggressive. It's a reaction to ubiquitous political correctness, really. I don't agree with their methods, but I understand their frustration.
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    I've seen it. I'd say it's one of the better Marvel origin stories. It's not Iron Man, Black Panther, or GotG. But it's probably better than the origin movies for Captain America, Thor, Ant-Man, and Doctor Strange. Then again I come at comic book movies from a different perspective than a lot of people. I don't really need them to be good movies. I just need to be entertained by them. I'm usually even entertained by the worst of them (looking at you Suicide Squad). As far as Captain Marvel goes, I think it was very entertaining. I think everyone who was in the movie was great.

    Not the best Marvel movie, but not the worst either. Pretty much right in the middle of the road.

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    Rose and I saw Captain Marvel yesterday. I liked it enough, but overall it felt fairly generic. And about a half hour too long. There were some good parts, there were some slow parts, but all in all, it was a four out of five as a movie, a three out of five for a Marvel movie, and it comes in second when comparing it to Wonder Woman, which was fucking fantastic.

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    21) guardians of the galaxy, vol. 2
    20) iron man 2
    19) incredible hulk
    18) iron man 3
    17) thor: dark world
    16) doctor strange
    15) ant-man and the wasp
    14) thor: ragnarok
    13) captain marvel
    12) iron man
    11) ant-man
    10) captain america: first avenger
    9) thor
    8) spider-man: homecoming
    7) black panther
    6) captain america: winter soldier
    5) avengers: age of ultron
    4) avengers: infinity war
    3) guardians of the galaxy
    2) avengers
    1) captain america: civil war

  18. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Servant View Post
    Like it or hate it. Trolls or no trolls. Captain Marvel crushed the box office.

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...obally-1193585

    Also, to piggyback off of what Matt said earlier. Many of the negativity that was surrounding the film was from people that wanted to see the film or not, which is different from people who have actually seen the film.

    That is evidenced by an A CinemaScore and strong exit grades.
    This tweet says it all:

    https://twitter.com/Fandango/status/1104768294551199744
    #CaptainMarvel went higher, further, faster than any female-fronted film before it; it earned $153M over its 1st US weekend and globally—at $455M—became the biggest worldwide opening of all time for a female-fronted film, as well as the 2nd largest comic book opening gross ever.
    I think it's just difficult for some white males (yes, I said it) to grasp just how important this type of representation is for women and minorities. And women make up more than half the population! But until recently there hasn't been representation of a strong female hero on this scale. Sure, we've had Ripley and Sarah Connor, and a few other examples, but they were the exception, while most heroes on the big screen were white, male, and straight. Now we're getting many more of other kinds of people, and some see that diversity as a bad thing and infringing on their space or something. They fail to see how huge it is for someone who's not a while straight cisgender male to see Wonder Woman, or Black Panther, or Captain Marvel, or whoever is the rumored gay Marvel superhero is, lead a blockbuster movie. It's not just a insert-minority-person-here for the sake of it. It matters and it makes a difference.

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    I agree Mae. I didn't have reservations about the film because of that. I just had issues with the film because of the tesseract. I read a few things and they sort of made sense to me. I may re-read those articles and see the movie again. But I had no issue with her being a main super hero at all.

  21. #871
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    While some of the backlash against Captain Marvel comes from white men who object to a strong female lead, I see a lot of the negative discussion about the movie being about how it is being politicized in its marketing to boost sales.

    By marketing it as a social justice cinematic milestone, Disney know that people will feel obligated to support it as part of a larger cause. So they will feel obligated to go see it, and obligated to like it. There will also be a chilling effect on criticism for fear of being labeled sexist. Some people see that as cynical on behalf of Disney, who as a corporation don't give a rats ass for social equality. And I think there's something to that.

    That doesn't mean that having movies with female or minority leads shouldn't be made or promoted. Of course they should, and we should celebrate them. But the moment a movie becomes part of a political movement, it becomes hard to talk about it as just a movie.

    Mae, you mentioned the Alien and Terminator franchises, and it's interesting to contrast them with a movie like Ghostbusters 2016. At the time of the former movies, they weren't marketed as triumphs of feminism, they were marketed as thrilling experiences, and they are remembered primarily because they are good movies. Ghostbusters 2016 WAS marketed as a feminist landmark film, and there was a lot of very passionate support for it at the time. But it is now largely forgotten - apart from the controversy - because it simply wasnt very good. But it was seen as "important" at the time because of the deliberate politicization of its marketing.

    It looks like Captain Marvel has done very well. That's great; I want movies with strong female leads to do well, so more of such movies are made. But I hope it did well primarily because it's a good movie, not just because it's lead was a woman.
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  22. #872
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    I don't watch Denzel Washington movies because he's black and I can learn so much; I watch because he is compelling and makes me believe what's on the screen.

    I didn't love Bridesmaids or Mama Mia because wow they're all women and my God how empowering; I loved the former and enjoyed the latter because they were good movies.

    And while I enjoyed the female-led Ghostbusters (I loved the wonton soup thing), I preferred the original 2 movies, not because "males > females," but because they made me (me) laugh more. So be it.

    I'm happy to watch movies starring people who aren't white men (talent has neither gender nor race, an obvious and banal fact that shouldn't strike any as profound, although I expect that some in the blogosphere would be happy to make a living discussing nothing but that).

    When I see a non-white in a role, I don't think "there goes a job that was meant for one of us!" What an excruciatingly ignorant notion; this is one reason I think people are getting dumber.

    Human beings alive in 2019 are aware of the presence of non-white males (it's neither novel nor noteworthy), but if the fact that the star isn't a white man becomes the movie's point, those behind the move have lost the plot (no pun intended, although it's apt).

    If you promote your movie in a way that communicates what it is, it will find its audience (which may end up being broader than you think). Also, rule #1 of promotion: don't tell any potential viewers that you don't care what they think.

    I won't see Captain Marvel - not because of anything Brie Larson said, or because she's female; I just don't care for most superhero movies, and nothing I've seen of CM has attracted me to it. Nothing more complicated than that.
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  23. #873
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    Personally, I pay very little attention to marketing. And movies like superhero flicks need little marketing for me as a huge comics nerd. Just give me a title and a little teaser and I’ll be there no matter what. Honestly, I don’t think anyone in 2019 needs to be sold on a Marvel movie at this point. You’re either on board or you’re not. And the success of Captain Marvel has little to do with marketing of her being female. It’s all about the MCU in this case. For the most part, anyway. But it does matter, like I said earlier. On-screen representation does a lot of positive things, but my hope is what it can accomplish is normalization. Which is kind of a stupid word I guess, but it just means seeing women, minorities, or queer people as equals and real people. Obviously, this doesn’t apply to most people, who are decent folks.

  24. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by mae View Post

    This tweet says it all:

    https://twitter.com/Fandango/status/1104768294551199744
    #CaptainMarvel went higher, further, faster than any female-fronted film before it; it earned $153M over its 1st US weekend and globally—at $455M—became the biggest worldwide opening of all time for a female-fronted film, as well as the 2nd largest comic book opening gross ever.
    I think it's just difficult for some white males (yes, I said it) to grasp just how important this type of representation is for women and minorities. And women make up more than half the population! But until recently there hasn't been representation of a strong female hero on this scale. Sure, we've had Ripley and Sarah Connor, and a few other examples, but they were the exception, while most heroes on the big screen were white, male, and straight. Now we're getting many more of other kinds of people, and some see that diversity as a bad thing and infringing on their space or something. They fail to see how huge it is for someone who's not a while straight cisgender male to see Wonder Woman, or Black Panther, or Captain Marvel, or whoever is the rumored gay Marvel superhero is, lead a blockbuster movie. It's not just a insert-minority-person-here for the sake of it. It matters and it makes a difference.

    I disagree with what is considered a 'strong female lead' in movies like this. It seems they just make them superpowerful and consider that a strong female character. Contrast Rey from Star Wars, who seemingly is good at everything innately, with Sarah Connor....Connor was an ordinary woman and is forced to become strong to survive, but she's still incredibly vulnerable, physically and mentally...she attacks Miles Dyson's house like a badass, but breaks down when it comes to actually killing him. Or a male example, we have John McClane, who is an ordinary cop who takes a shit kicking and isn't any stronger than the bad guys. Ripley's survival in Alien isn't because she's a strong female lead...it's as much an accident as a result of any strength. Even look at Leeloo in The Fifth Element is supposed to be 'the perfect being' and she still gets her ass kicked and nearly dies. Making a character unstoppable and invulnerable, no matter their gender, isn't a compelling character. Superman isn't compelling: Clark Kent is compelling. A strong character is a character with depth, with layers and dimensions, who's motivations are clear and has enough weakness to also be sympathetic and relateable. It has nothing to do with actual strength. I haven't seen Captain Marvel yet, but I've heard her character is pretty thin, she has no real arc, and the action scenes lack tension because she's too powerful to be vulnerable. I don't consider that a strong female lead. Luke Skywalker is a great, strong male lead...but he also doubts himself, makes mistakes, lets his emotions get the better of him, and it takes him 3 films to become a Jedi Master. But in at the end of each film he also needs to be saved: Han Solo appears to take care of Vader so Luke can blow up the Death Star; after being defeated by Vader, Luke needs to be saved as he's hanging beneath Cloud City; Vader has to save Luke from The Emperor. Luke i'm sure was a big screen hero to many young boys, but he's got plenty of flaws. But the strongest character in Star Wars was Princess Leia, not Luke. Leia is a stronger character than Rey too.

    Might be great for little girls to see a woman on the big screen being super strong, and that's great. I'd argue the strongest female character this decade though isn't Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel or Black Widow or Scarlet Witch, but Furiosa. A perfect example what I consider to be a strong female character is Laurie Strode in the new Halloween. Yeah she's a bad ass, but being a bad ass came at the cost of severe trauma and the expense of her family and living a normal life. There's a dichotomy with Laurie in whether or not she's actually a super strong bad ass or if that's merely a symptom of the trauma she can't escape which means she's also weak? She's a bad ass, but I bet she wishes she wasn't, that she could just be a normal woman. I grew up as a kid watching Ripley and Sarah Connor and LeeLoo and so many women characters who beat the killer or killed the monster, that strong female leads (or characters in general) have always been a part of my life.

    Mike on Half in the Bag there raises a great point: if Captain Marvel wasn't part of the MCU brand, wasn't sandwiched in between two of the biggest films of all time, Infinity War and End Game, and was a stand alone film outside of any brand and was just a movie someone made...would it have made anywhere close to that money or would be people be applauding it as some icon of progress? I don't think so. I've heard people talking for the past few years about how empowering it would be to have Jane Bond to show women can be super spies too...then Atomic Blonde, about a female British super spy, opens to 18M. I would put more stock in everyone's claims of wanting strong female characters if people actually supported such movies like that beyond their favourite brands. There are a lot out there, in action movies or not. The Favourite had 3 strong female characters in it including a woman being the most powerful person in the land....only made 33M domestic. I think it's kind of sad that the only strong female characters most people know of these days have super powers of some kind. Why aren't all these people making sure a film like On The Basis of Sex based on an actual female role model who actually did great things in the real world, and is a story many young women probably don't really much know about, made a bunch of money instead of a paltry 24M total? I bet if Ruth Bader Ginsberg literally flied around the courtroom kicking literal ass it would have made tons of money :/ Now one such movie that actually did really well in terms of support was Hidden Figures, which made a little more total than Captain Marvel's opening weekend.


    It's great that young girls have a superhero to watch on the big screen. I'm not denying that or the power that has either. But I don't like what people require a strong female character to be, and I don't like that the only movies most people seem to care about when it comes to films with female leads are popcorn flicks. There is a bevy of female led and female made films out there to support beyond these safe, branded vehicles. A movie like Fighting With My Family is about a strong female who help revolutionize women's roles in a male-dominated field...no feminism fervor over that movie...
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  25. #875
    Oz the Gweat and Tewwible mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae seldom gets put on hold mae's Avatar

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    Well, quite honestly, the only movies that are making any sort of significant box office these days are the superhero movies for the most part. Or other types of event or blockbuster films. No drama will ever open to 100+ million nowadays. No matter if it's got a male or female lead, or anything. People have stopped going to the movies, for the most part, to watch those kinds of films.

    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_i...grossing_films

    Out of the top ten highest-grossing films of last year only one (Bohemian Rhapsody) could be considered a drama. The rest are superhero or superhero-adjacent movies.

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