That Thing, You Can Only Talk About If You've Finished the Series

[pathoftheturtle]

This thread makes for interesting reading.
What's happening with it? Will a poll be added?

The Tower and its nature is a subject multi-facted enough to require numerous threads, I reckon. I'll look up a quote from The Wastelands about magic and technology if this IS the place to post it. It's hard to really much discuss that subject in any part without spoilers, though. (Here are quite a few serious ones out, already, I see.)

I think that Walter gets most of his knowledge of the Tower --and most of the powers related to it that he shows-- from the Crimson King. Apparently, though, he already had the idea to climb the Tower for the chance to rule the multiverse. Might be interesting to discuss what makes these villians so sure that that'd be possible.

[skoldpadda]

I have to say that I strongly disagree with the idea that the world revolves around Roland, or that this is all an internal thing. King's premise for the story was that it would be an epic to rival the Lord of the Rings, and he accomplished that by making the scope of the story massive.

It just seems strange to me that if the tower could send Roland back in time to the desert, how come it could not save the beams from the breakers?

Unless (an idea occurs here...) what if Roland dies at the top of the tower, and is sent elsewhere like Jake was in the first book, only he finds himself in the desert? Just as Jake had no memory of his death in 1977, Roland has no memory of his quest for the tower.

[razz]

My question is how many times do you think he has repeated his quest for the tower?

every time. you think he did this twice, then let his cousin Phil have a turn?
I THINK NOT!!!

[Brice]

It just seems strange to me that if the tower could send Roland back in time to the desert, how come it could not save the beams from the breakers?

Maybe it could and it wasn't within the tower's/Gan's/Ka's will?

[wildfire1290]

It just seems strange to me that if the tower could send Roland back in time to the desert, how come it could not save the beams from the breakers?

Maybe it could and it wasn't within the tower's/Gan's/Ka's will?

But why would the tower let itself be destroyed?

[Brice]

It just seems strange to me that if the tower could send Roland back in time to the desert, how come it could not save the beams from the breakers?

Maybe it could and it wasn't within the tower's/Gan's/Ka's will?

But why would the tower let itself be destroyed?

In order to TRY to answer that, let's suppose there is some god (Gan?). A god that in part relies on some sort/degree of faith (maybe a part of ka). Let's say it also relies on a free will of sort (also maybe a part of ka). In other words let's say it needs or wants to be saved, thus it has to have some risk of destruction...a real risk of it I think. In short if it's never at risk and exists perfectly without any difficulties it becomes insignificant, meaningless, cheap, and worthless. If there is no risk of it's destruction then there is no risk of the multiverse's destruction either. There cannot be salvation if there is nothing to be saved from.

[wildfire1290]

Hmm makes sense. I'm just wondering how many followers of Gan and follow the concept of Ka are out there in Rolands world.

[Brice]

Hmm makes sense. I'm just wondering how many followers of Gan and follow the concept of Ka are out there in Rolands world.

In my mind it's comparable to Christianity (or any other major religion for that matter) in that there are many followers, many ex-followers, many piecemail followers (who pick and choose parts to believe), and many pretenders. That seems to be how things are in this world. I see no cause to believe it would be otherwise in Roland's (or any other).

[wildfire1290]

But if there are that many people why would the Tower purposely put itself in harms way?

[Son of Paul]

I think Walter knows about Roland's loop, not the specifics or even the why's. To me the "19" had nothing to do with the number of loops, just with the date of King's possible death and with his death the likely death of the Dark Tower.

I'm with you. I think he told Nort that it was all some story, that they weren't real (of course, I like to think they were real, just kinda directed a bit by King). When Walter talks of Roland being so close, and the Gunslinger actually wonders about it to himself, that signals that Walter knows something. Not all, otherwise I doubt he would have been so eager to reach the top himself.

[razz]

you have to consider the fact that Walter has tried to kill Roland and Mordred, was because they both had the insignias needed to open the way to the Tower. therefore, if he wanted to get inside the tower, he needed the key, which he didn't have.

[The Lady of Shadows]

dad a diddle
dad a dower
walter has never
been inside the tower

dad a chum
dad a chee
walter will never
get the key

[razz]

nice, turtlesong.

[razz]

seeing as it's an endless loop?

[Letti]

If you ask me, yes.

[Mark]

I believe it's the beginning of that loop, so, yes, it's a beginning.

[Mark]

Do you think Roland's cycle always starts in the desert or not?

[Ka-tet]

I belive so, although i dont really think there is any solid evidance i dont think its a conincidence the first book starts there and the last ends there. But i do think events before the desert can be changed. As well as events after, the loop has to end somtime.

[razz]

just a thought, especially since W&G shows the beginning of the quest. in mejis.

[razz]

almost definitely.

[Odetta]

yes

[John_and_Yoko]

Let's not forget the fact that the loop starts over again in the coda to Volume VII. I actually felt a need to re-read the first subchapter of The Gunslinger after I came to the end.

Certainly in the case of the revised and expanded edition, that's the case....

[jayson]

i think yes. i believe the looping always begins in the desert though what comes after, in my opinion, is not always the same.

[Brainslinger]

I think things in the past can change too, but I think Roland always loops back to the desert. The end of the book strongly suggested this was always the case.

[Matt]

I suppose an argument could be made that he gets closer every time. We only know for sure he started in the desert this time.

However, I think the Tower has the ability to shape Roland's further back in his past than the desert. Meaning, like LOST, nothing is set in stone.

Because we are dealing with the lynch pin of time and space here.