That Thing, You Can Only Talk About If You've Finished the Series

[wildfire1290]

The way I have seen it- The Tower saga as a whole is the absolute anti-love story.
The entire journey(s) is Ka's way of beating a very stubborn Roland over the head with the message that love should be more important than anything, something he should have realized when he lost Susan, or Cuthbert, or Alain ect... A message that Roland never seems to get, and thus is doomed to try again and again. Hence why he restarts alone in the desert, instead of mayhap Gilead before his trial. This journey up the tower seems to show a very slight progress, (even though he still has lost everyone and everything to the tower.) and is rewarded with the horn of Eld.

"Ok, a little better this time- here's your horn. Try again, but this time lets not let everyone you care for die horribly huh?"
Just a theroy-
It could be that because he dared to find the tower, this is Ka's way of punishing him for all eternity.
Mayhap all the worlds are destined for discordia, and Rolands constant questing is fighting Ka.
Roland - the anti Ka?
Mayhap?

Excluding Roland and his some what failed love attempts, what about the love that Eddie shared for Susannah and Jake? They were basically a family.

[Brainslinger]

I'm not being funny here - but would King nessecarily know?

Besides the fact that he is the author?

Thing is though, until he writes it down that doesn't mean he is right. Think of the introductions and notes he's put in previous book where he described where he thought things were going, which turned out not to happen.

It's definitely interesting to get his point of view though and in this case I agree. The horn suggests there will be an end, but he's still got a way to go.

Or maybe it was the first... *runs out of the room*

Well, the text at the end of DT7 tends to make that unlikely, i think?

True. Also the text at the start of revised version of The Gunslinger where Roland feels a strange thinness, almost as if he is at the Tower indicating that this is when he returns from a previous loop, i.e. this isn't his first.

As for whether or not Roland draws the same people, personally I think he does. I seem to remember a passage where Roland speaks something along the lines "Nothing but death can break Ka-tet" and that "Cort thought that not even that would break it." This makes sense when you consider the loop.

True, The Dark Tower suggests otherwise what with the Ka-Shume (or whatever it's called, the sense of breaking of a Ka-tet), and the way the surviving members seemed to drifted apart after the death of the other members, as if they were companions but no longer ka-tet. However this can be explained simply as a break down in their original connection, and as we know Susannah had dreams of (an) Eddie and Jake even then leading to their (re)uniting. In other words, theirs a loose connection, but it can be re-tightened (to borrow an electrical analogy.)

[Power Surge]

Has Walter really been in the Dark Tower? I remember him saying that he has. And in the first book Roland said that he's not a lier.

[SpektR]

Thanks for that spoiler. You da man.

[Wuducynn]

Power Surge you have to be careful when making a thread about what you put as your title. SpektR I wouldn't worry about it, its not that much of a spoiler, if one at all.

[Erin]

I edited the title of the thread a bit and added the spoiler icon. Power surge, just let me know if you'd rather me change the title to something else.

Welcome to the site! Happy posting!

[Power Surge]

How can this be a spoiler? It never actually stated in the books so what exactly would I be spoiling?

[SpektR]

The fact that walter comes back. And says hes been to the tower and says that the top room is empty, leading me to the conclusion Roland doesnt make it to the tower or he would know wether walter was lying or not.

[Wuducynn]

Like I said SpektR, don't worry about it. Really. There is so much more to it. You're on The Wastelands right? Tip of the ice berg practically.

[Power Surge]

There - I changed it. I don't care about rooms - I only posted that to remind you when and to whom Walter confessed about his alleged trip.

[Letti]

I am sure Walter has never been in the Tower. Anyway Roland is wrong quite often so it doesn't mean anything that he says Water never lies. If you ask me he lies with pleasure. he said it to stop Roland.
(Is there any more information about it in the comics?)

[Power Surge]

But it seems like Walter possessed the knowledge about the loop and that information could only have been obtained in the tower. That's probably what he told Nort and what drove the villagers crazy.

[Letti]

But the Tower is not like a museum... you can't go in and out like a costumer whenever you want. Can you imagine that Walter entered the Tower he climed it he saw the door at the top and realised everything: "Wow, so Roland is making the same loops. What a loser! Hahaha!" - he climed down and he went to do his business.
Or how so?

[Power Surge]

Well, to be able to tell Nort about the loops Walter would have to know and thus visit the Dark Tower before the loop begins. I'm guessing Nort was to give Roland an escape close - it all could've ended there and then if The Gunslinger simply asked the weed-eater. The only logical conclusion I can see is that Walter is somehow involved or even the reason for the loop.

[Letti]

Where does Walter speak about the loops to Nort? Is it in the revised Gunslinger?
Still even if Walter had entered the Dark Tower I don't see why he would know about the loops.

[ManOfWesternesse]

Where does Walter speak about the loops to Nort? Is it in the revised Gunslinger?...

Same question PowerSurge.
You sure you're not reaching very far on an assumption here?

[ladysai]

I thought Walter told Pere Callahan about the top of the tower, when they met at the way station.
I dont remember him telling anything to Nort about the tower or the loops.

[Wuducynn]

I thought Walter told Pere Callahan about the top of the tower, when they met at the way station.
I dont remember him telling anything to Nort about the tower or the loops.

He didn't. It was to Callahan he said something like "I know the room at the top of the Tower is empty".

[obscurejude]

I thought that was an interesting idea, Walter knowing about the loop. If it is Roland's nineteenth loop and that's the significance behind "going nineteen" then it would make sense why the word drove Nort insane. After all, the word contained the secrets of death according to Walter.

None of this is definitive, but I had never thought of it before.

[Wuducynn]

I think Walter knows about Roland's loop, not the specifics or even the why's. To me the "19" had nothing to do with the number of loops, just with the date of King's possible death and with his death the likely death of the Dark Tower.

[Wuducynn]

Back on the topic of the thread. No, Walter hasn't been to the top of the Dark Tower. He just has a strong (albeit false) belief that the room at the top is empty.

[obscurejude]

It wasn't definitive, I just really like the idea. I'm going to think about it some more. I have a few things to say, but I want them to be clear.

[jayson]

I think Walter knows about Roland's loop, not the specifics or even the why's. To me the "19" had nothing to do with the number of loops, just with the date of King's possible death and with his death the likely death of the Dark Tower.

I agree Matthew, especially with the thoughts on the 19 part of what you said.

[obscurejude]

Back on the topic of the thread. No, Walter hasn't been to the top of the Dark Tower. He just has a strong (albeit false) belief that the room at the top is empty.

If you think he knows about the loop, then how is that compatible with his assumption that the room is empty?

[Wuducynn]

Back on the topic of the thread. No, Walter hasn't been to the top of the Dark Tower. He just has a strong (albeit false) belief that the room at the top is empty.

If you think he knows about the loop, then how is that compatible with his assumption that the room is empty?

How is his knowledge of the loop incompatible with the belief that the room at the top of the Tower is empty?